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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[REDSTATEWARD]

“ Since when does the ACLU believe a process that favors the accused is inappropriate or unfair?“
Good question.

Not really. 

Its not a criminal matter.  And the process, forcing a victim of sexual assault to lawyer up and go before a student tribunal, discourages reporting when under reporting is already a problem.

Some better questions:

- How would a victim provide "clear and convincing evidence" of being sexually assaulted if there were no witnesses?  Are you proposing dorm rooms be outfitted with CCTVs?

- How often do we think a young woman would claim to have been sexually assaulted when she hasn't been?

You believe the victim because thats just common sense.  If you don't, that means you really just don't care that much.  As with Kavanaugh...ultimately he was seen as a "victim" by the right (despite absolutely convincing testimony to the contrary) because they think its fine to have a perpetrator of sexual assault on the courts so long as he rules against abortion and regulations on businesses.

Might want to actually read the new guidelines.

[Driver125]

Betsy’s attacks on education are the lynchpin of their long term strategy.

The woman, personally, and her whole family donate millions and millions of dollars to the Republithug party….Trump and his accomplices would have put her in any position that she wanted, regardless of her personal views or ‘policies’….just keep that money flowing to us Betsy….

[kiiidcarter8]

As evidence piles up pointing to the Saudi crown prince’s responsibility in the brutal killing of the dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi, President Trump has only hardened his refusal to concede any possibility that the prince had a hand in the crime.

Mr. Trump, who had once condemned the Saudi leaders for perpetrating “the worst cover-up in history,” praised Saudi Arabia this weekend as a “truly spectacular ally,” even after the C.I.A. concluded that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the kingdom’s de facto leader, ordered the murder.

Mr. Trump said he would wait for a report on Mr. Khashoggi’s death produced by his administration, due Tuesday, before deciding how to assign blame. But he seemed to play down the importance of the report even before it was issued, suggesting that it would not establish definitively who was ultimately responsible and risking a clash with his own intelligence agencies.

“Will anybody really know?” Mr. Trump said in an interview aired on “Fox News Sunday.” “All right, will anybody really know?”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/18/us/politics/trump-khashoggi-saudis.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

I have many thoughts on this, all not generous to Mr. Trump's indifference to the brutal murder of a journalist taking refuge in the US, and working for an American newspaper. 

But it says something about the potential of corruption...

The Saudi's are known palm-greasers.  They have used their money to gain influence, legal and otherwise, all over the globe.  Given that, and our knowledge that Trump's professional career banked on his taking advantage of the opportunities presented to him by palm-greasers, how can we be sure that his position on this matter (which is vital, btw, to maintaining our credibility on human rights globally) is not coming from his personally, directly or indirectly through his businesses, making millions of dollars from Saudi Arabia?   

Of course we can't.  We can say, in fact, that he probably is.

So what possible justification can Republicans have for a hands-off approach to monitoring Trump's connections to those businesses, and investigating where necessary? 

Just as with Sexual Assault, ultimately the only possible explanation for the Republican position on this is that they don't care if the President of the United States is a grifter.  So long as they are in on the con.

I don't think Trump is indifferent on Koshogi at all

Have to get all the facts in.  Talk that is too tough right now could be dangerous.

[Yankguy1]

As evidence piles up pointing to the Saudi crown prince’s responsibility in the brutal killing of the dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi, President Trump has only hardened his refusal to concede any possibility that the prince had a hand in the crime.

Mr. Trump, who had once condemned the Saudi leaders for perpetrating “the worst cover-up in history,” praised Saudi Arabia this weekend as a “truly spectacular ally,” even after the C.I.A. concluded that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the kingdom’s de facto leader, ordered the murder.

Mr. Trump said he would wait for a report on Mr. Khashoggi’s death produced by his administration, due Tuesday, before deciding how to assign blame. But he seemed to play down the importance of the report even before it was issued, suggesting that it would not establish definitively who was ultimately responsible and risking a clash with his own intelligence agencies.

“Will anybody really know?” Mr. Trump said in an interview aired on “Fox News Sunday.” “All right, will anybody really know?”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/18/us/politics/trump-khashoggi-saudis.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

I have many thoughts on this, all not generous to Mr. Trump's indifference to the brutal murder of a journalist taking refuge in the US, and working for an American newspaper. 

But it says something about the potential of corruption...

The Saudi's are known palm-greasers.  They have used their money to gain influence, legal and otherwise, all over the globe.  Given that, and our knowledge that Trump's professional career banked on his taking advantage of the opportunities presented to him by palm-greasers, how can we be sure that his position on this matter (which is vital, btw, to maintaining our credibility on human rights globally) is not coming from his personally, directly or indirectly through his businesses, making millions of dollars from Saudi Arabia?   

Of course we can't.  We can say, in fact, that he probably is.

So what possible justification can Republicans have for a hands-off approach to monitoring Trump's connections to those businesses, and investigating where necessary? 

Just as with Sexual Assault, ultimately the only possible explanation for the Republican position on this is that they don't care if the President of the United States is a grifter.  So long as they are in on the con.

I don't think Trump is indifferent on Koshogi at all

Have to get all the facts in.  Talk that is too tough right now could be dangerous.

Yep.  The President has always had a deep and abiding regard for due process.

[NeedsAdjustments]

Have to get all the facts in.  Talk that is too tough right now could be dangerous.

Then say he is waiting to "get all the facts in" (as though the evidence the CIA used to draw its own conclusions isn't available to him) instead he says...

“Will anybody really know?” Mr. Trump said in an interview aired on “Fox News Sunday.” “All right, will anybody really know?”

He is shrugging his shoulders.  We can't possibly know, so lets all just move on.

The attitude toward due process Trump applies to allies (and court appointments) in marked contrast to his political opponents.

[NeedsAdjustments]

Have to get all the facts in.  Talk that is too tough right now could be dangerous.

Then say he is waiting to "get all the facts in" (as though the evidence the CIA used to draw its own conclusions isn't available to him) instead he says...

“Will anybody really know?” Mr. Trump said in an interview aired on “Fox News Sunday.” “All right, will anybody really know?”

He is shrugging his shoulders.  We can't possibly know, so lets all just move on.

The attitude toward due process Trump applies to allies (and court appointments) in marked contrast to his political opponents.

BTW, another example of how Trump has forced Conservative Republicans to mount absurd defenses...

kiidcarter8 really really concerned that the name of a Saudi Royal oil plutocrat not be dragged through the mud unnecessarily...

lol.

[bambu-wisdom]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiipcLiveDeAhWNFHwKHSNrB-QQzPwBegQIARAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tmz.com%2F2018%2F11%2F18%2Fdonald-trump-mistakenly-calls-paradise-ca-pleasure-during-fire-tour-with-gov-brown%2F&psig=AOvVaw0RI4jtaGFfQYfKshjQ5w91&ust=1542717794947945

Older guys sometimes get mixed up.

[LarryBnDC]

To the GOP and its supporters:

When your party’s electoral strategy depends on fewer people voting it means you know your policies suck for most people.

That was Hillary’s plan.  It didn’t work.
It never does.

Tell that to Hyde-Smith, you dishonest peace of excrement.

[FlyingVProd]

This land belonged to the Native American Indians, and now it belongs to everyone, with all men being equal. And you cannot come in and then try to block other people out, it belongs to the next guy just as much as it belongs to you. The USA is different than the rest of the world, and the USA is a very special place that is for everyone, with our Statue of Liberty welcoming the tired, the poor, and the huddled masses yearning to breathe free.

This land is your land,
This land is my land,
From California to the New York Island,
From the Redwood forest to the Gulf Stream waters,
This land was made for you and me.
 
https://youtu.be/wxiMrvDbq3s
 
NO WALLS!
 
Salute,
 
Tony V.

[FlyingVProd]

ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL!

Not only does it say that "ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL" in our Declaration of Independence, but we also have it in our laws that all people are equal, and we all have equal rights.

We have the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which demands equal opportunity for employment, and we have the Civil Rights Act of 1968 which demands equal opportunity on housing. So we have that covered. People need to know that they have equal rights, and people need to stand up and fight for the rights which people have. And for instance, when they ask for your race on a job application, you do not have to fill that out, it violates the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The same with housing, you do not need to list your race on a housing application, as it violates the Civil Rights Act of 1968.

People need to stand up and fight for the rights that we have, and we are all created equal..

And "stop and frisk" by police officers is unconstitutional, and police searching your car for no reason is unconstitutional, and cops checking your identification to see if you are a legal citizen is unconstitutional, etc. We need to stand up and fight for the rights that we have. And police and ICE and Border Patrol agents cannot board Greyhound buses to check the citizenship of the passengers, nor for any reason, without a warrant, just like with a limousine, they need a warrant.

I support equality for women, and for all people, and we already have that here in the USA, we just need to stand up and fight for what we already have.

And I support equal pay for equal work, we need to make that happen.

All people have equal rights here in the USA, and the USA is for everyone.

Salute,

Tony V.

[facilitatorn]

Good values like that are why there aren’t enough republicans to win an election in Orange County.

Hopefully the good sense extends to Mississippi in its Senate runoff and to Georgia for is Secretary of State.

[facilitatorn]

Now that trump has folded on Acosta’s press pass, CNN would like dumpy’s tax returns by way of apology. As would we all.

[bambu-wisdom]

God made man, and Sam Colt made them equal.

Islamic terrorists who are hacking people to death in the streets of the Christian West are usually huge and muscular.
I am not huge...and not muscular.
But a gun makes me equal. [too bad I'm not allowed to carry guns.]
At least Americans can carry guns and be equal, with stab-slaughtering terrorists.

[Yankguy1]

God made man, and Sam Colt made them equal.

Islamic terrorists who are hacking people to death in the streets of the Christian West are usually huge and muscular.
I am not huge...and not muscular.
But a gun makes me equal. [too bad I'm not allowed to carry guns.]
At least Americans can carry guns and be equal, with stab-slaughtering terrorists.

https://wnyt.com/news/police-investigating-fatal-shooting-in-corinth/5147073/

[barton]

"The ACLU cannot love constitutional rights only when it serves to further a cause on behalf of their favored marginalized group, then hate it when it doesn’t, and still be given credit as a voice for civil liberties ...

What "marginalized group"...women?  As if protecting victims of sexual assault is about identity politics? 

In fairness, Barton posted the link. Red simply does not know how to format.

I posted to stimulate chat about the possibility of specious comparison of campus tribunals with public criminal courts.   Seems to me the rules of evidence might be different in a campus situation.  I found some demarcations in the article fuzzy:  when would "sexual misconduct" on campus become a sexual assault that should be handled  by the municipal or county police and the court system?   I was a bit confused by the notion of the campus as some island preserve somehow separate from the larger world.