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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[facilitatorn]

Triangle trade reboot, here and now.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/dollar800-million-in-taxpayer-money-went-to-private-prisons-where-migrants-work-for-pennies?ref=home?ref=home

[kiiidcarter8]

Today was a good day - the best day of 2018, back up nearly 1,100 points.

According to the local Washington D.C. newspaper
it was the “ best day, ever!”

800 points below what it was a.week ago. Best day! But it least it gives you something to talk about besides pretending lowering gas prices was because of Trump's energy policies.

I never said that.
But behave as expected.
Notice that oil had a large increase in price, the biggest upsurge in two years, and the overall market still had its best day, EVER.

I was thinking percentage when I said best day, rather than raw points.

In terms of total points, that's correct. But before you get to ebullient about that...

Of the 10 largest single day gains ever in points, 9 of them were either 2008 (3) or 2018 (6).

Of the 12 single largest day losses ever in points, 11 of them were either 2008 (4) or 2018 (7).

(Of the top 20 gains, 2 more 2008 and 2 more 2018. Of the top 20 losses, 4 more 2018 - more than half in this year, alone.)

Looking at the percentages, this gain doesn't crack the top 20 biggest ups! 2008 had a couple of those. 2009 another. But 15 of them came during the Great Depression.

And the worst downs? 3 from 2008. Only 8 from the Great Depression. One of the 1000+ drops was even greater than this up was an up, but not as high a percentage, as it came from 2000 points higher.

But I really don't think roller coaster ups and down all year are a sign of stable economy or country.

I'm a lot less sanguine about the situation than you are.

What have you shown that represents an UNSTABLE economy?

To anybody but you, plenty. This kind of volitility in the stock market only comes in years in which a substantial recession or depression has followed.

To you, nothing, because you only see what you want to see and only discuss that which favors your previously held position.

For example, your exuberence over yesterday's stock market compared with silence the rest of the time over the last week, including today, with its 500+ plus drop (so far).

Heh.

[REDSTATEWARD]

For example, your exuberence over yesterday's stock market compared with silence the rest of the time over the last week, including today, with its 500+ plus drop (so far).

My mention of the stock market yesterday came as a response to your misrepresentation of it.
I followed with quotes from market analysts who outlined a number of overall factors regarding the health of the broader economy.

I realize your world is consumed by the hatred of Trump.  But, in reality, Obama’s mishandling of the economy by his burdensome regulations and anti-business attitude contributed heavily to Hillary’s defeat. Any candidate that beat her would have rolled back regulations and championed tax cuts as Trump has done. His, in my mind, trade and tariffs policies may slow the booming recovery which has played a part in the market volatility.
Meanwhile the market is up over 1350 points in the last two days and gasoline at the neighborhood grocery chain is selling today for $1.77 BEFORE I use my 50 cent-off store rewards card.
Retail stores are making lots of sales, the housing market is robust,and Google, Amazon, and Facebook are building Data Centers near downtown.

[bambu-wisdom]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/china-will-challenge-us-naval-supremacy-within-a-year-20180712-p4zr6e.html

'China will challenge US naval supremacy within a year'

But on other critical occasions under Obama, America failed to act. Obama told China to stop building islands in the disputed areas of the South China Sea. Beijing simply ignored him. Obama did nothing.

While the US has dithered, China's President Xi Jinping has been clear and purposeful.
"Like clockwork," says Jennings, "every three to four months they take another step to consolidate their gains in the South China Sea", where Beijing has constructed man-made islands in contested waters and equipped them with runways, reinforced hangars, and batteries of anti-ship and anti-air missiles. A Chinese heavy bomber recently touched down on one of the islands for the first time.

#####

Now look what's happened/is happening.

[bankshot1]

The "booming recovery" took place under Obama. Trump's been riding the Obama wave for two years.

And regulations under Obama were instituted to correct the mistake that industry can be self-policing.

They can't.

and Obama's anti-business attitude saved the US auto and related industries and US banking at a time when the US economy could not afford more massive failures in manufacturing and banking/finance.

Inadequte financial regulations under Clinton and Bush (mortgage, I-banking and commodities/derivatives) almost led to a global depression.

A billion dollars of regulators with regulations might have saved trillions of dollars in losses.

But it also would have prevented the tens of billions stolen by Wall St.

That Trump removed regulations and cut taxes was akin to loading up Jack Nicholson wih viagra and coke and letting him loose, you know a lot of folks will get fucked.

Some regulations were overly onerous and should have been addressed, but the removal of all sorts of regulations under this administration will ultimately be hazardous to most on this planet. 

But Red would rather blame our 1st Kenyan President, rather than our first Russian President.

But it should be remembered that Red is a fucking moron.

[kiiidcarter8]

The "booming recovery" took place under Obama. Trump's been riding the Obama wave for two years.

Heh.

[bankshot1]

Today was a good day - the best day of 2018, back up nearly 1,100 points.

According to the local Washington D.C. newspaper
it was the “ best day, ever!”

800 points below what it was a.week ago. Best day! But it least it gives you something to talk about besides pretending lowering gas prices was because of Trump's energy policies.

I never said that.
But behave as expected.
Notice that oil had a large increase in price, the biggest upsurge in two years, and the overall market still had its best day, EVER.

I was thinking percentage when I said best day, rather than raw points.

In terms of total points, that's correct. But before you get to ebullient about that...

Of the 10 largest single day gains ever in points, 9 of them were either 2008 (3) or 2018 (6).

Of the 12 single largest day losses ever in points, 11 of them were either 2008 (4) or 2018 (7).

(Of the top 20 gains, 2 more 2008 and 2 more 2018. Of the top 20 losses, 4 more 2018 - more than half in this year, alone.)

Looking at the percentages, this gain doesn't crack the top 20 biggest ups! 2008 had a couple of those. 2009 another. But 15 of them came during the Great Depression.

And the worst downs? 3 from 2008. Only 8 from the Great Depression. One of the 1000+ drops was even greater than this up was an up, but not as high a percentage, as it came from 2000 points higher.

But I really don't think roller coaster ups and down all year are a sign of stable economy or country.

I'm a lot less sanguine about the situation than you are.

What have you shown that represents an UNSTABLE economy?

To anybody but you, plenty. This kind of volitility in the stock market only comes in years in which a substantial recession or depression has followed.

To you, nothing, because you only see what you want to see and only discuss that which favors your previously held position.

For example, your exuberence over yesterday's stock market compared with silence the rest of the time over the last week, including today, with its 500+ plus drop (so far).

Heh.

Most rational people understand that hyper market volatility is not good for either the market nor investors, It is good for nimble traders who might take advantage of exagerated market swings that the typical investor can not or would not. Market volatility is a sign of uncertain and most investors hate uncertainty as its very difficult to properly price.
So they sell and get out of the way until stability returns to the market.

Only an idiot, incapable of understanding these basic concepts of risk, would respond to the above discussion with a "heh".

But at least he's identified his grasp of the topic.

[josh]

Today was a good day - the best day of 2018, back up nearly 1,100 points.

According to the local Washington D.C. newspaper
it was the “ best day, ever!”

800 points below what it was a.week ago. Best day! But it least it gives you something to talk about besides pretending lowering gas prices was because of Trump's energy policies.

I never said that.
But behave as expected.
Notice that oil had a large increase in price, the biggest upsurge in two years, and the overall market still had its best day, EVER.

I was thinking percentage when I said best day, rather than raw points.

In terms of total points, that's correct. But before you get to ebullient about that...

Of the 10 largest single day gains ever in points, 9 of them were either 2008 (3) or 2018 (6).

Of the 12 single largest day losses ever in points, 11 of them were either 2008 (4) or 2018 (7).

(Of the top 20 gains, 2 more 2008 and 2 more 2018. Of the top 20 losses, 4 more 2018 - more than half in this year, alone.)

Looking at the percentages, this gain doesn't crack the top 20 biggest ups! 2008 had a couple of those. 2009 another. But 15 of them came during the Great Depression.

And the worst downs? 3 from 2008. Only 8 from the Great Depression. One of the 1000+ drops was even greater than this up was an up, but not as high a percentage, as it came from 2000 points higher.

But I really don't think roller coaster ups and down all year are a sign of stable economy or country.

I'm a lot less sanguine about the situation than you are.

What have you shown that represents an UNSTABLE economy?

To anybody but you, plenty. This kind of volitility in the stock market only comes in years in which a substantial recession or depression has followed.

To you, nothing, because you only see what you want to see and only discuss that which favors your previously held position.

For example, your exuberence over yesterday's stock market compared with silence the rest of the time over the last week, including today, with its 500+ plus drop (so far).

Wow.

The Market's computer driven processes are just plain wild.

I am so glad that it is not my job to predict it.

[LarryBnDC]

This motherfucker...


https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1078638249562775552?s=21

[barton]

Don't know if anyone else does this,  but I don't open twitter anymore.   If it's quoted in  an article, or post,  I will read it (reluctantly).  My guess is that 45 said something stupid,  offensive, and possibly defamatory.  Since 45 is an empty spot where a person would normally be,  a spot that generates words without substance, full of sound and fury,  signifying nothing,  I would like to start a movement to end all human acknowledging of the spot except as an open manhole that one mustn't fall into.   No clicks for you,  45.

That's my heartfelt feeling this fine winter morning.   If you all want to examine today's diaper shitstain, perhaps ponder it as scholars have pondered ancient Norwegian runes,  have at it.   

[NeedsAdjustments]

I realize your world is consumed by the hatred of Trump.  But, in reality, Obama’s mishandling of the economy by his burdensome regulations and anti-business attitude contributed heavily to Hillary’s defeat.

You cite no actual statistics to demonstrate Obama’s mishandling of the economy. You have only Hillary’s loss which you have repeatedly pointed to, as if that proves your point. It doesn’t. It’s like my saying “Trump just suffered one of the biggest midterm defeats in history with over 10 million more people voting against his party, his handling of the economy must be bad!”

Obama did raise taxes on the wealthy, increase environmental regulation, empower government agencies to protect labor and consumers, and paid down the deficit. What happened?  We began the longest period of economic expansion in history.

Trump enacted a deficit exploding $1.5 Trillion tax cut for the rich, is increasing damage to the environment and killing our position on climate change, neutered agencies that protect consumers from predatory business practice and did I mention the blowing up deficit?  And to what end?  An economy that has largely only continued the growth and employment trends it had under Obama. There has been no significant Trump bump in any important category. And now we are looking at a volatile stock market, bond markets that are predicting the end of the current positive cycle, and over half of business leaders predicting a recession by the end of 2019.

So what has Trump’s enacting of conservative policies on regulations and taxes given us, except a poorer environment, and a deficit hole that puts us in bad shape to deal with that recession when it comes?  Nada.

Those tax cuts were supposed to give us “the greatest economy you’ve ever seen. Believe me.”  Instead we are all holding our breath. And you think Trump is doing great?

An analysis that disqualifies you almost as severely as your victory dance after one good day I. The markets.

[whiskeypriest]

I realize your world is consumed by the hatred of Trump.  But, in reality, Obama’s mishandling of the economy by his burdensome regulations and anti-business attitude contributed heavily to Hillary’s defeat.

You cite no actual statistics to demonstrate Obama’s mishandling of the economy. You have only Hillary’s loss which you have repeatedly pointed to, as if that proves your point. It doesn’t. It’s like my saying “Trump just suffered one of the biggest midterm defeats in history with over 10 million more people voting against his party, his handling of the economy must be bad!”

Obama did raise taxes on the wealthy, increase environmental regulation, empower government agencies to protect labor and consumers, and paid down the deficit. What happened?  We began the longest period of economic expansion in history.

Trump enacted a deficit exploding $1.5 Trillion tax cut for the rich, is increasing damage to the environment and killing our position on climate change, neutered agencies that protect consumers from predatory business practice and did I mention the blowing up deficit?  And to what end?  An economy that has largely only continued the growth and employment trends it had under Obama. There has been no significant Trump bump in any important category. And now we are looking at a volatile stock market, bond markets that are predicting the end of the current positive cycle, and over half of business leaders predicting a recession by the end of 2019.

So what has Trump’s enacting of conservative policies on regulations and taxes given us, except a poorer environment, and a deficit hole that puts us in bad shape to deal with that recession when it comes?  Nada.

Those tax cuts were supposed to give us “the greatest economy you’ve ever seen. Believe me.”  Instead we are all holding our breath. And you think Trump is doing great?

An analysis that disqualifies you almost as severely as your victory dance after one good day I. The markets.

The number Red used to cite to pretend the economic recovery was not happening under Obama was the number of Americans above the age 16 who were not in the workforce. That was at 94.3 million when Obama left office. It is at 95.9 million now. For some odd reason, Red has stopped referencing that number, and appears to no longer consider it a valid indicator of the economy. Not sure why.

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/lns15000000

[REDSTATEWARD]

I realize your world is consumed by the hatred of Trump.  But, in reality, Obama’s mishandling of the economy by his burdensome regulations and anti-business attitude contributed heavily to Hillary’s defeat.

You cite no actual statistics to demonstrate Obama’s mishandling of the economy.

His miserable stewardship of the recovery speaks for itself( the worst ever).
He took Hillary with him when left and in less than 2 short years the economy took off.
Smokin’!
 

[Yankguy1]

I realize your world is consumed by the hatred of Trump.  But, in reality, Obama’s mishandling of the economy by his burdensome regulations and anti-business attitude contributed heavily to Hillary’s defeat.

You cite no actual statistics to demonstrate Obama’s mishandling of the economy. You have only Hillary’s loss which you have repeatedly pointed to, as if that proves your point. It doesn’t. It’s like my saying “Trump just suffered one of the biggest midterm defeats in history with over 10 million more people voting against his party, his handling of the economy must be bad!”

Obama did raise taxes on the wealthy, increase environmental regulation, empower government agencies to protect labor and consumers, and paid down the deficit. What happened?  We began the longest period of economic expansion in history.

Trump enacted a deficit exploding $1.5 Trillion tax cut for the rich, is increasing damage to the environment and killing our position on climate change, neutered agencies that protect consumers from predatory business practice and did I mention the blowing up deficit?  And to what end?  An economy that has largely only continued the growth and employment trends it had under Obama. There has been no significant Trump bump in any important category. And now we are looking at a volatile stock market, bond markets that are predicting the end of the current positive cycle, and over half of business leaders predicting a recession by the end of 2019.

So what has Trump’s enacting of conservative policies on regulations and taxes given us, except a poorer environment, and a deficit hole that puts us in bad shape to deal with that recession when it comes?  Nada.

Those tax cuts were supposed to give us “the greatest economy you’ve ever seen. Believe me.”  Instead we are all holding our breath. And you think Trump is doing great?

An analysis that disqualifies you almost as severely as your victory dance after one good day I. The markets.

The number Red used to cite to pretend the economic recovery was not happening under Obama was the number of Americans above the age 16 who were not in the workforce. That was at 94.3 million when Obama left office. It is at 95.9 million now. For some odd reason, Red has stopped referencing that number, and appears to no longer consider it a valid indicator of the economy. Not sure why.

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/lns15000000

Laughing at Red remains easier. I think we all need to put paid to the notion that Red is anything more than a political hack with a subscription to the Wall Street Journal. He's got his tax cut, his two (and likely three) Supreme Court justices and probably should go post with similar "thinkers." But alas, we're stuck.

[barton]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2018/12/28/we-are-living-new-gilded-age-proves-it/?utm_term=.594318091c8d

Okay, but what about the economy? The stock market might have stumbled in the past month, but most Americans still fared pretty well this year, right?

Yes, but there are worrisome holes here, as well. Median household incomes rose for the third-straight year in 2017, but the economy hasn’t benefited everyone equally. In fact, median incomes fell for African American households.

And while unemployment is at the lowest rate in almost 50 years, the percentage of people in the labor force has remained mysteriously low relative to other developed countries. Experts say part of that trend can be explained by demographics as baby boomers retire, but U.S. participation rates also lag for people of working age. One analysis from this summer found that if the United States had the same working-age participation as Britain, we’d have to factor another 11 million people into the unemployment rate.

Consider, also, that despite persistent economic growth, the number of people receiving food-stamp benefits remains more than 50 percent higher than the number before the beginning of the Great Recession. Or that homelessness in the United States ticked up for a second year in a row. Or that child homelessness is surging in some parts of the country.

And if another recession is actually the horizon, as many forecasters predict, it is clear many Americans aren’t prepared for it. A Federal Reserve survey from earlier this year found that 40 percent of adults don’t have the savings to cover a $400 emergency and that more than a quarter skipped a medical treatment because of the cost in 2017. And, once again, financial well-being is even worse for people of color....

Provides a bit of balance to the exuberance radiating from the apparatchiks.