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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[Yankguy1]

Why can't Boeing take the lead and recall its own fleet of max-8s for a fix?  I see nothing good for the company by going along with an obviously corrupted administration.

I'd imagine that the Boeing board would argue that doing this (taking the lead) would constitute a breach of its fiduciary duty to its investors and, at the same time, I imagine there's an argument to be made that not doing it (taking the lead) constitutes a breach of its fiduciary duty to its investors.

[bodiddley]

For anyone wondering about aeroplanes dropping from the sky, this from Slate is the best background I've read on what's going on:

Boeing’s 737, first flew in 1967, and though various improvements have been rolled out over the years, at heart it’s still a creature of the Right Stuff era. Instead of computer-controlled fly-by-wire controls, which guide a plane’s flight electronically, it still has old-fashioned mechanical actuators, and it’s made of aluminum rather than modern lightweight composites.

Airbus’ A320 family, meanwhile, took to the skies a generation later, in 1987, but it was a fly-by-wire, composite creature from the get-go. In 2014, Airbus rolled out its most recent iteration, the A320neo, a range of jets with engines that were billed as being 15 percent more fuel efficient than the old model.

To maintain its lead, Boeing had to counter Airbus’ move. It had two options: either clear off the drafting tables and start working on a clean-sheet design, or keep the legacy 737 and polish it. The former would cost a vast amount—its last brand-new design, the 787, cost $32 billion to develop—and it would require airlines to retrain flight crews and maintenance personnel.

Instead, it took the second and more economical route and upgraded the previous iteration. Boeing swapped out the engines for new models, which, together with airframe tweaks, promised a 20 percent increase in fuel efficiency. In order to accommodate the engine’s larger diameter, Boeing engineers had to move the point where the plane attaches to the wing. This, in turn, affected the way the plane handled. Most alarmingly, it left the plane with a tendency to pitch up, which could result in a dangerous aerodynamic stall. To prevent this, Boeing added a new autopilot system that would pitch the nose down if it looked like it was getting too high. According to a preliminary report, it was this system that apparently led to the Lion Air crash.

If Boeing had designed a new plane from scratch, it wouldn’t have had to resort to this kind of kludge. It could have designed the airframe for the engines so that the pitch-up tendency did not exist. As it was, its engineers used automation to paper over the aircraft’s flaws. Automated systems can go a long way toward preventing the sorts of accidents that arise from human fecklessness or inattention, but they inherently add to a system’s complexity. When they go wrong, they can act in ways that are surprising to an unprepared pilot. That can be dangerous, especially in high-stress, novel situations.

I don't know how definitive this is or how the lawsuits will go, but there's also talk of pilots unhappy with the limited training and info they've received about the 737's new automated system.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Why can't Boeing take the lead and recall its own fleet of max-8s for a fix?  I see nothing good for the company by going along with an obviously corrupted administration.

I'd imagine that the Boeing board would argue that doing this (taking the lead) would constitute a breach of its fiduciary duty to its investors and, at the same time, I imagine there's an argument to be made that not doing it (taking the lead) constitutes a breach of its fiduciary duty to its investors.

There is no reliable evidence that there is a danger worth grounding the planes. 
Boeing sees none, the airlines sees none, the FAA sees none.

[Yankguy1]

Why can't Boeing take the lead and recall its own fleet of max-8s for a fix?  I see nothing good for the company by going along with an obviously corrupted administration.

I'd imagine that the Boeing board would argue that doing this (taking the lead) would constitute a breach of its fiduciary duty to its investors and, at the same time, I imagine there's an argument to be made that not doing it (taking the lead) constitutes a breach of its fiduciary duty to its investors.

There is no reliable evidence that there is a danger worth grounding the planes. 
Boeing sees none, the airlines sees none, the FAA sees none.

.  No longer true.

[barton]

For sure, who is going to buy more planes from a company that flagrantly denies obvious safety issues* and won't do a recall?  Do Boeing execs have shit for brains?

* well, obvious to most of the world, most pilots, most air travelers, most regulatory bodies (Canada just joined that list).... but not to Redward, apparently.  Apparently two jets falling from the sky is not, for him, "reliable evidence..." 

[REDSTATEWARD]

For sure, who is going to buy more planes from a company that flagrantly denies obvious safety issues* and won't do a recall?  Do Boeing execs have shit for brains?

* well, obvious to most of the world, most pilots, most air travelers, most regulatory bodies (Canada just joined that list).... but not to Redward, apparently.  Apparently two jets falling from the sky is not, for him, "reliable evidence..."

Moot point now that Trump just grounded the planes.

[facilitatorn]

One of the instances where it’s fortunate that trump is weak and easily bullied. He is otherwise immune to good ideas.

[bambu-wisdom]

More like he cares.
Wise move..."All those planes are grounded, effective immediately".
He mentioned the plane safety officials in America.
Maybe he talked them into it...maybe they decided themselves.
Everyone else has banned them, so why would American safety officials not do so.
IMAGINE...if one crashed in America on Trump's watch.

Countries [Norway at least I think they said] are now seeking financial compensation from Boeing for having to ground their planes.

[facilitatorn]

So we get the dates right,

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_MAX

From first flight to roll out, this is a trump administration regulatory fail. More will come to light in a great trumpian cascade of failure.

It what Red votes for to punish us for having a better time then he does in a world where the deck is stack in his favor.

[bambu-wisdom]

Jared Kushner's dad got his son, who was a mediocre student, into Harvard with a $2.5 million donation to the school in 1998.

Shocking!
Just Shocking!

Not shocking at all.  Quite common, in fact.  Which was the point.

Funny how conservatives are never bothered by the wealthy getting advantages over the rest of us (see above, corporate welfare, lower tax rates, etc)  but if someone who has almost nothing gets an opportunity they wouldn’t otherwise get?  Whoo boy.  Whole movements are started within Conservatism to prevent that from happening.

It's the policy of my first boss [bank manager] in the workplace, that he advised me to have...
"Look after yourself first in this world, son...because nobody else will".

Yes, so you have told us, roughly a dozen times now.

That's part of why government exists - because there are so many assholes like you.

Like every voter at election time doesn't vote for the policies that favour them and theirs most.  lol
Politicians...baaah!
You have to make them give you what you want. It's not always easy to do.

Who will look after you and yours first in this world, if not you yourself?

[bambu-wisdom]

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-governor-gavin-newsom-death-penalty-moratorium-20190312-story.html?fbclid=IwAR0O0QTs0m4JbyGJ_yw0Y4bn2HzWQlV70eTJfAp176yU0utGoylSPU24eF0

No more death penalty in California, at least for quite a while. Maybe forever.

Great news!

No more human beings walked into death chambers alive and wheeled out dead in CA.
Now there's no chance of the State killing innocent people...and torturing people to death.
CA got itself a shiny new gas chamber in recent times, if I remember correctly.

[Yankguy1]

 Your role model, the President, has tweeted his fury at the California Governor's decision.

[bambu-wisdom]

Being selfish, and looking after me and mine first [who is not doing that?]...I'm very happy that those planes have been grounded.
Wouldn't want mrs bambu flying around America in them.

There's enough to worry about already...icy runways, snow, rain, wind, blizzards, polar vortexes...without allegedly-faulty planes being thrown into the mix.

[bambu-wisdom]

Your role model, the President, has tweeted his fury at the California Governor's decision.

The only perfect person who's ever walked on earth was the man with holes in his hands and feet.

[bambu-wisdom]

Your role model, the President, has tweeted his fury at the California Governor's decision.

No role model of mine.
In my role model book, he doesn't tick many boxes.

I'm happy he announced the planes are grounded.
There's some hope for him to improve his role model ticking numbers.