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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[bodiddley]

The US too often leaves things to the market and big business to sort out.
Without having a geo-political strategy and using economics as political leverage.

Plenty of non-China countries could have been the main beneficiaries of globalization and outsourcing.

- India & Pakistan could have become the world's factory.  Aligning them closer with the US.  Hopefully reducing religious-nationalism.  Fixing their endemic poverty.  Hopefully getting them to cooperate in business deals and reducing tension and rivalry.  Yes, all in theory.  A prosperous sub-continent would counter China and Russian power. 

- South America.  Why not industrialize there and shore up America's backyard?  SA always seems forgotten about.  Neglected by the US.  But it has natural resources, a large reasonably educated population, access to both oceans, proximity to the US.  Import Taiwan, Korea and Japan technology and expertise.  Could stabilize and prosperize these countries and avoid immigration crises.

- SE ASia --Indonesia, Philippines and later Vietnam could have manufactured the products China has (and significant secondary outsourcing has occurred in those countries).  Also Bangladesh.  Bolstering SE Asian countries near China would have been strategic. 

- Africa.  Nigeria has nearly 200M people.  Ethiopia 100M
Lotta young people needing jobs.  Probably never seriously considered due to infrastructure and racism.

- Russia.  Maybe things would have been very different if the US and allies has retrofitted the creaky Russian industrial infrastructure.  Could have roped Russia into the West and SE Asian alliance quickly.  Could have made orderly privatization a condition of investment.  Educated population, industrial know-how.  One issue would be shipping.  Russia's Far East coast is underpopulated.  Just the Black Sea, Baltic Sea.  Would have had to rely on rail to Europe more.

[facilitatorn]

Glad you are jumping in to the what the fubar is going on in the world discussion as much as hoops. I learn a lot from what you share and enjoy it.

All I got right now is this

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-rally-fading-2020-election-872872/

[josh]

Ange Strom-Weber
August 15 at 12:01 AM

"$40 and a photo ID. That's all you should have in your pockets."
Tonight I planned to be arrested protesting at the Wyatt Detention Facility in Central Falls, RI. I wore comfortable layers. I made sure to not drink too much water. I left my phone and keys with a volunteer in a baggie with my name on it. The only things in my pockets were $40 and a photo ID. Four hours later, I watched the ambulances gather up the seriously injured.

The action was organized by Never Again is Now. We marched from Jenks Park, singing, chanting, praying. We gathered outside of the facility, about 40 of us who had planned to get arrested, and large crowd of other protesters. We delivered a letter with demands, and when, as expected, the demands were not met, we lined up outside the two entrances to the Wyatt, one to block pedestrian access and the other to block vans. However, because they knew we were coming, they had rescheduled all prisoner transfers so there were no vans coming in or out.
So we decided to relocate to the adjacent parking lot, to block guards from leaving when their shift was over. There was a large entrance and a smaller entrance off to the side. At first I was with the big group at the front entrance. Then a car started heading towards the side entrance, so some of us broke off to block that exit. The person in that car was a woman, and she left her engine on the whole time during what followed.

At the main entrance, at about 9:30pm, a guard in a black pickup truck roared down the street, and rammed directly into the line of protestors on that side. Two people were injured. Then, WITHIN SECONDS, a horde of guards came streaming out of the prison and pepper-sprayed the protesters, including the injured. Let me be clear: there is no way that they could have gotten there that fast unless there was some communication ahead of time from the guy in the truck about his plan.
Many people were seriously injured by the amount and manner in which the pepper spray was used. Prison guards absolutely do not have the authority to use their pepper-spray, a weapon that is part of their job, against civilians outside a prison. And none of the protesters was on prison grounds; we were across the street in a parking lot, which was adjacent to a soccer and baseball field. Earlier in the evening, there had been kids playing there.
On our side, we were sitting across the entrance to the parking lot, facing outwards. The woman was still behind us with her lights and engine on. We heard screams but could not see the other group. At that moment, the woman in the car behind us revved her engine several times, to intimidate us into moving. We stood up and faced her. We did not move, and we wanted her to look us in the eye if she was going to run us over. She did not move.

This was a premeditated attack. There were both local and state cops in the area - they were there all night keeping an eye on things, but they would do loops, they were not always right in front. The guard watched and waited for a moment when none of the 3 cars that were patrolling were within line of sight to carry out his attack. But he did coordinate with his fellow guards inside so that they were ready in an instant to pour out of the facility and across the street with their pepper spray.
When the local cops came back, it was pretty clear that they were PISSED at the guards - I do want to say that in fairness. I do not believe that the local cops were part of the conspiracy. Honestly, this is going to bring such a stream of crap to Central Falls in the coming weeks, and this makes their life very difficult. National attention. But at the same time, they did not immediately arrest the driver. All they would say is that there would be an investigation.
When it became clear how seriously injured some folks were, the rest of the protest was cancelled, including our group on the far side of the parking lot. So I came home with the $40 still in my pocket.

I joined this action because I've reached a point where I look at everything I've done so far and there's no risk, no personal cost. If I look at this moment in history, and all I can say is that I posted some stuff and waved some signs, but was unwilling to take any risk or do anything that might cost me, I simply cannot live with that. ICE is perpetrating crimes against humanity. I will not be a person who looked the other way, who hoped it would go away.

For more information on the Wyatt: My understanding is that the Wyatt is a for-profit facility but they have two governing bodies: a board of governors that is made up of Central Falls public officials, and a board of the shareholders. In the spring of this year, the Wyatt entered into a contract with ICE to house about 100 detainees from the southern border. The mayor and city council of Central Falls was very opposed to this, and the board of governors from Central Falls voted to end the contract. But the board of shareholders really, really wanted that sweet ICE money, so they sued the city and the board of governors and the mayor, for the right to ignore the governance and keep the ICE detainees. That lawsuit is ongoing.
Please let the mayor and government of Central Falls that you support them. Additionally, the RI Senate and RI House have the power to enact legislation banning for-profit prisons in the state. Other states have done this. Please, please let your Senator and Rep know that you want this to be a priority for them during the next legislative session that starts in January. Let them know how outraged you are that guards from a for-profit facility would use their prison weapons against non-violent protestors. If they are using that much excessive force on civilians, what are they doing to those who are detained in their facility, do you think? Please donate to AMOR, an immigrant support organization in RI: https://amorri.org/
If you are not in RI, I'm sure you can find the local equivalents. Never Again is Now is a national organization with many local branches.
Please share with everyone you know in RI, especially if the Projo and Channel 10 and stuff start putting out a skewed version. This is what happened. I was there.

EDIT [the next morning when I can speak more clearly]: For clarity, I don't think the Central Falls police were involved in the planning of the attack, but they were very involved in covering it up by not arresting the guard immediately and in the way they responded to witnesses. Earlier in the night, they blatantly lied to us about who the woman was in the car behind us in an effort to get us to leave. All cops are complicit. Also, by now I'm sure everyone reading this has seen the video and the other news coverage and they made it more clear: he was outside the parking lot, ramming inwards. It's not like he was inside and frustrated with us blocking him.

Please, if you talk about this story, make sure to ask the question: if they treated us with this level of violence, a group of civilian protesters with cops not that far away and everyone having a cellphone camera, what do you think they are doing to those detained in the facility who have no way to get the word out about their treatment?

One of the items that Never Again is Now was protesting about this facility was the lack of transparency and proof that detainees rights are being met. After last night, it's not enough for the Wyatt to just cancel the ICE contract. The whole facility needs to be shut down. Tell your RI senators and reps: No for-profit prisons in RI!

[bodiddley]

Glad you are jumping in to the what the fubar is going on in the world discussion as much as hoops.

Really I think you folks are fantastically wasting your time arguing with the likes red and kiid and luee and bambu.  They offer such weak foils. Red merely stays on top of the right wing propaganda.
What's the point of debating them?
Actually they don't even debate, just provoke or propagandize.
None of them make a credible case or are persuadable.

You folks are knowledgeable and passionate.
Shouldn't you be joining a Dem campaign and actively working to remove Trump from office?

[josh]

I'm tired of Israel being criticism-proof. 

...keeping millions stateless.

I think the notion of Israel's being criicism-proof is laughable. Compared to the Palestinians, Israeli is a magnet for criticism! Remember when Israeli rockets destroyed the Gazan power plant? Tons of critical media attention for that. When that same "destroyed" plant was up and running a few days later, where were the reporters?!

Oh, right! Nobody cares about a plant that works. Etc.

Israel is a bigger target and takes many more attacks.

Honestly, Israel invites a lot of the grief it takes, but... I don't feel as if you responded to anything I wrote about the situation.

How is Israel keeping the Palestinians stateless? They are recognized by a lot of countries. They declared their statehood in 1988. Even the UN has quasi-acknowledged it with their change of Palestine in 2012 to "Non-member state status."

If you refer to the Arab-Israeli citizens, yeah, I see them as largely stateless, in a condition akin to Puerto Ricans or folks in the US Virgin Islands. Some differences in favoring one over the other in each direction.

[josh]

Glad you are jumping in to the what the fubar is going on in the world discussion as much as hoops.

Really I think you folks are fantastically wasting your time arguing with the likes red and kiid and luee and bambu.  They offer such weak foils. Red merely stays on top of the right wing propaganda.
What's the point of debating them?
Actually they don't even debate, just provoke or propagandize.
None of them make a credible case or are persuadable.

You folks are knowledgeable and passionate.
Shouldn't you be joining a Dem campaign and actively working to remove Trump from office?

We're all actually Russian trolls, but don't know it.

And... what do you think we are doing when we are not writing here?!

[bodiddley]

The coverage and slant of news in the US greatly favors Israel.
I don't this is self-evident and not debatable.  All the terms and presentation favor a pro-Israel view of the situation.  I can pick examples out of almost any general news article if you want.

Israel and the US mount fierce diplomatic campaigns and apply pressure to prevent countries and the UN from recognizing Palestine as a state.  Isn't this well-known?  They especially don't want the Palestinians having access to international criminal courts, who would likely rule against Israeli violations of international law.

The Palestinians are allowed a very limited gov't, overseen and restricted by Israel.

Gaza.  Israel maintains an air-sea-land blockade.
Only allowing enough basic supplies in to keep mass starvation at bay.
IL also shoots people on their own territory who approach a fenced border.

Israel has divided the West Bank into three sectors, the majority of which is controlled and policed by Israeli soldiers.  IL controls movement and construction throughout the WB.  Israel collect taxes and decides how and when to pass that on to the Palestinians. 

[bodiddley]

I'd be interested in discussing BDS further.

Maybe I should have said that Israel and allies have many strategies to deflect criticism from Israel, which are irrelevant to and don't address the actual criticisms.

The first line is that the critics of specific policies/actions are anti-Israel.
And worse anti-semitic.  That's usually been good to shut up the Euros and make Americans nervous.

Then we get to extremes and such critics are said to want to see Israel destroyed (with another Holocaust implied).

And lastly Israel is proclaimed (somewhat falsely) as the only democracy in the ME and a great US ally, so how dare you criticize Israel when other countries are worse.

None of which gets to the merits of any criticism.  It's just trying to impugn the motives of the accusers or otherwise distract.

Often the hypocrisy is pretty stunning:

Israel is believed to have roughly 100 nuclear warheads.
Yet when Iran -- partly in response -- ramps up a limited nuclear program  monitored by the IAEA, all hell breaks loose and Iran is punitively sanctioned.  Then after Iran agrees to a nuclear deal involving Europe and the US, Trump reneges on it.  Yet Iran is considered the bad actor.  You really hear anything about IL nukes.

Israel supports economic sanctions on Iran and lobbies for them to be tightened.  Israel runs a comprehensive blockade over Gaza.  And limited blockades in the WB (especially over construction).  Yet Israel views the BDS movement as illegitimate and a severe threat, morally wrong, etc.

Israeli & the US denounce terrorism, yet IL has assassinated Iranian nuclear scientists and the US has used cyber-attacks to disrupt Iran's nuclear program.

The US has been a peace broker for the ME for decades despite being heavily biased in favor of Israel.  At least the Trump is honest about its position firmly on IL's side.

[LarryBnDC]

Glad you are jumping in to the what the fubar is going on in the world discussion as much as hoops.

Really I think you folks are fantastically wasting your time arguing with the likes red and kiid and luee and bambu.  They offer such weak foils. Red merely stays on top of the right wing propaganda.
What's the point of debating them?
Actually they don't even debate, just provoke or propagandize.
None of them make a credible case or are persuadable.

You folks are knowledgeable and passionate.
Shouldn't you be joining a Dem campaign and actively working to remove Trump from office?

[luee]

What part of "death to America" is not understood? 9-11, the bombathon, etc., etc. on American soil. ISIS, the French killings,etc. etc. around the globe. This is a violent primitive culture arising from the shadows of the dark ages promoting suicidal mass murder, rape and pillage. Except for slavery and recently oil, economic failures.

[Yankguy1]

Yawn. Etc. Etc.

[barton]

The  Chairwoman of the Federal Elections Commission has called President Trump on his bullshit about the NH 2016 presidential election: "put your cards on the table or fold."

I have a new metric here for what criteria makes a good posting:  criterion #1 is that it must offend KidC.  Criterion #2 is that it must accurately describe a state of affairs outside of my head, i.e. external reality.

Trump is a fat fucking liar.   There, both boxes checked. 

[barton]

It make perfect sense to those who aren’t suffering from Syphilis.

Since you are suffering from a very late stage of Syphilis, as evidenced by your posts, there is no point in explaining what is clear and straight forward to you.

Your keen, insightful, and point-by-point analysis, as ever, really drives a  discussion.

Heh. 

[bodiddley]

This is a violent primitive culture arising from the shadows of the dark ages promoting suicidal mass murder, rape and pillage.

And yet it's America who is involved in one endless war (on Terror!), has two wars deep into their 2nd decade, endlessly gets into wars, is the biggest arms dealer in the world, has military bases round the world, resorted to rendition and torture when frightened, etc.  How advanced and civilized! 

Violence, mass murder, pillage ... what's more American than that?

Serious question.
Luee, have you ever been in a Muslim country?
Have you ever been inside a mosque?

[barton]

Glad you are jumping in to the what the fubar is going on in the world discussion as much as hoops.

Really I think you folks are fantastically wasting your time arguing with the likes red and kiid and luee and bambu.  They offer such weak foils. Red merely stays on top of the right wing propaganda.
What's the point of debating them?
Actually they don't even debate, just provoke or propagandize.
None of them make a credible case or are persuadable.

You folks are knowledgeable and passionate.
Shouldn't you be joining a Dem campaign and actively working to remove Trump from office?

Agree, and I have. (*) And your posts on China are keepers.  I'm trying to learn more about the PRC these days, so welcome your contributions.  As for the trolls, I think many here just use them to keep their discursive knives sharpened.  No one has any illusions that entrenched and sclerotic views will be changed.  There is also an entertainment aspect to it.


*  as web admin at a science website, I help promote dissemination of solid peer reviewed research on climate change and anthropogenic GW, i.e. data that runs counter to the current GOP narrative.