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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[Hairy Lime]

The coverage and slant of news in the US greatly favors Israel.
I don't this is self-evident and not debatable.  All the terms and presentation favor a pro-Israel view of the situation.  I can pick examples out of almost any general news article if you want.

Israel and the US mount fierce diplomatic campaigns and apply pressure to prevent countries and the UN from recognizing Palestine as a state.  Isn't this well-known?  They especially don't want the Palestinians having access to international criminal courts, who would likely rule against Israeli violations of international law.

The Palestinians are allowed a very limited gov't, overseen and restricted by Israel.

Gaza.  Israel maintains an air-sea-land blockade.
Only allowing enough basic supplies in to keep mass starvation at bay.
IL also shoots people on their own territory who approach a fenced border.

Israel has divided the West Bank into three sectors, the majority of which is controlled and policed by Israeli soldiers.  IL controls movement and construction throughout the WB.  Israel collect taxes and decides how and when to pass that on to the Palestinians.

Iran is the enemy of the USA, not Israel. Wake up.

So is Russia, if we are being non-sequitorious. Just because Israel is an ally shouldn't mean we do not.raise.issues when their actions are wrong, or are harmful to our long term self interest.

Haven't heard those two Congress women say anything about Iran. Don't be distracted by Israel. Iran is the threat to stabilization in the region, and in Central Asia. Wake the fuck up.

Israel's failure to deal effectively, justly and humanely with the Palestinian issue is a  long term threat to stability in the region and our national interests and would be so regardless of Iran's international ambitions. Wake the fuck up.

I would suggest that there is a fair degree of shared responsibility as to the failure to find a realistic solution. In the interim I'll wait until Israel returns ALL  land gained in wars, and yields to all Palestinian demands, and acts justly and humanely enough to satiate their most rabid critics.

Of course to the first part. Don't exaggerate to the second; "you can't satisfy some people" is an too often an excuse for inaction. There are people on your side of the issue for whom nothing short of the extreme will be enough as well.

If you agree to the first part, then perhaps a post explicitly stating a shared responsibility for failure should have been posted rather than label it "Israel's failure".

When the subject of debate on the Board is Israel, it is Israel. Criticizing Palestinians is rarely if ever condemned as inherently racist by the political mainstream.

And can we agree that the extremes on both sides will lead to disaster?

My point was there may be no position that Israel can take, which satisfies its critics which does not materially threaten the state.

Horse shit. The vast majority of Israel's critics - and all of its mainstream critics - want a safe and secure Israel. They just view Israel's current treatment of the Palestinians as contrary to that goal in the long term.

When the subject is Israel, the other player is generally Palestine.

its unfortunate that you 180ed so quickly on the shared responsibility/ownership of failure.

So in your opinion its all israel's fault, and the Palestiinans bear no responsibility?

Got it.

No, Israel was the topic of discussion. So, Israel.

[Hairy Lime]

Minimize talk about the white supremacists.

What talk?

Proving Josh's point.

[Hairy Lime]

News Item
August 19, 2019


WASHINGTON—Planned Parenthood Federation of America said on Monday it would withdraw from the federal Title X family-planning program rather than comply with a new Trump administration rule preventing clinics from referring patients for abortions.

Leaving 40% of.Americans benefiting from Title X funding without access to their preferred provider, and many with no access to any provider at all. Got a replacement plan for them? Or, you know, it's just women who cares?

Hillsdale College is an example of an institution that refuses to adhere to federal mandates and
shuns the money that comes with them.  It makes up the difference by finding other sources of revenue. The new federal regulation bans abortion referrals by those who are federally funded, about $60 million dollars a year to Planned Parenthood.

Leaving 40% of Americans benefiting from Title X funding without access to their preferred provider, and many with no access to any provider at all. Got a replacement plan for them? Or, you know, it's just.women, who cares?

The Clinton Foundation might be a source to be tapped.
 Goodness knows it has a lot of funds in need of spending.

Oh, PP will explore all avenues to ensure it fulfills its mission to provide reproductive care to women. While proceeding with the law suit. Meanwhile, some will take note of the idea that what majority power can do to us majority power can do to them. And that if the government can silence one side.of the abortion debate it can silence.the other as well.

[facilitatorn]

Minimize talk about the white supremacists.

What talk?

The primitive barbaric white supremacist ideology has so far permeated Christian and conservative culture that in addition to its usual spawn of disastrous and murderous policy they are also spewing out actual gun toting murderers onto America’s streets.

That talk.

You should get out more. Just duck when you do.

[bankshot1]

The coverage and slant of news in the US greatly favors Israel.
I don't this is self-evident and not debatable.  All the terms and presentation favor a pro-Israel view of the situation.  I can pick examples out of almost any general news article if you want.

Israel and the US mount fierce diplomatic campaigns and apply pressure to prevent countries and the UN from recognizing Palestine as a state.  Isn't this well-known?  They especially don't want the Palestinians having access to international criminal courts, who would likely rule against Israeli violations of international law.

The Palestinians are allowed a very limited gov't, overseen and restricted by Israel.

Gaza.  Israel maintains an air-sea-land blockade.
Only allowing enough basic supplies in to keep mass starvation at bay.
IL also shoots people on their own territory who approach a fenced border.

Israel has divided the West Bank into three sectors, the majority of which is controlled and policed by Israeli soldiers.  IL controls movement and construction throughout the WB.  Israel collect taxes and decides how and when to pass that on to the Palestinians.

Iran is the enemy of the USA, not Israel. Wake up.

So is Russia, if we are being non-sequitorious. Just because Israel is an ally shouldn't mean we do not.raise.issues when their actions are wrong, or are harmful to our long term self interest.

Haven't heard those two Congress women say anything about Iran. Don't be distracted by Israel. Iran is the threat to stabilization in the region, and in Central Asia. Wake the fuck up.

Israel's failure to deal effectively, justly and humanely with the Palestinian issue is a  long term threat to stability in the region and our national interests and would be so regardless of Iran's international ambitions. Wake the fuck up.

I would suggest that there is a fair degree of shared responsibility as to the failure to find a realistic solution. In the interim I'll wait until Israel returns ALL  land gained in wars, and yields to all Palestinian demands, and acts justly and humanely enough to satiate their most rabid critics.

Of course to the first part. Don't exaggerate to the second; "you can't satisfy some people" is an too often an excuse for inaction. There are people on your side of the issue for whom nothing short of the extreme will be enough as well.

If you agree to the first part, then perhaps a post explicitly stating a shared responsibility for failure should have been posted rather than label it "Israel's failure".

When the subject of debate on the Board is Israel, it is Israel. Criticizing Palestinians is rarely if ever condemned as inherently racist by the political mainstream.

And can we agree that the extremes on both sides will lead to disaster?

My point was there may be no position that Israel can take, which satisfies its critics which does not materially threaten the state.

Horse shit. The vast majority of Israel's critics - and all of its mainstream critics - want a safe and secure Israel. They just view Israel's current treatment of the Palestinians as contrary to that goal in the long term.

When the subject is Israel, the other player is generally Palestine.

its unfortunate that you 180ed so quickly on the shared responsibility/ownership of failure.

So in your opinion its all israel's fault, and the Palestiinans bear no responsibility?

Got it.

No, Israel was the topic of discussion. So, Israel.

Prof Irwin Corey would stand in awe of the purity of this gibberish.

It makes no sense but nice work.

[NeedsAdjustments]

My posts are clear, pointed but nuanced.

LOL.  Writing your own NYTimes book review of your posts, bankshot1?

People have agendas and biases. There is nothing wrong with that.

Of course there is.  Someone posts a criticism of Israel, and you say "Huh, wonder why you don't ever criticize China, the country you live in, or Russia, or the US occupation of native land, or way worse countries, you must have an agenda..." everyone knows what you mean by "agenda" and it is not neutral.

And as I recall Bo did not respond to the suggestion of an unspoken agenda

--

Bo seems to think that israel is among the most repressive countries on earth.
I think Bo may have an unspoken agenda.

I don't know why everyone has to take everything to extremes.
When discussing Israel, it's fair to discuss its flaws and problems.
It's really no defense of Israel to note that other countries are worse.
And I don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm anti-Israel or anti-Jewish (or pro-terrorist, another common Israeli distraction/accusation)

--

He may be a Paestinian supporter, wholly neutral, or like me, a conlicted Israeli-supporter, all good, and all opinions welcome. But nonetheless his agenda remains unspoken, which is fine, thats his right, but it remains a prism from which I will view his posts on the subject.

So you will view all his posts through a prism that is entirely your own creation.  That seems fair.

And what is that "agenda" of which you speak, bankshot1?  Maybe speak it instead of leaving it "unspoken" so that the poster you are applying it to can tell you if it is accurate or not? 

And before lecturing me on what you deem intellectual dishonesty, perhaps you should not be so quick to jump to a false narrative.

The narrative I laid out is apparently shared by a number of frequent posters here.  Maybe we all have the same agenda.  Or maybe if your posts are conveying a message you don't intend, you should say so.

[bankshot1]

NA-The narrative you laid out was false as there is no evidence of my linking anti-Israel criticism with anti-Semitism, becasue it does not exist.

I started this thread with a post critical of Israel. By the test you seem to wish I adopted I would be anti-Semitic.

I'm pretty sure I'm not.

I judge people by what they post, and their Elbanese history, and how I've grown to know them over the years, that's it.

I won't bother responding to your other out of context, idiocy, as in a word, its idiotic.

[NeedsAdjustments]

Of course to the first part. Don't exaggerate to the second; "you can't satisfy some people" is an too often an excuse for inaction. There are people on your side of the issue for whom nothing short of the extreme will be enough as well.

[NeedsAdjustments]

I think it's right to support both the Palestinians and the Jews, and want the best for both. 

But Israel and the US control the situation.  While the Palestinians are the oppressed.

[NeedsAdjustments]

We have to start metering our criticism of human rights abuses in Israel in accord with a special Parity Posting Protocol that ensures we also sprinkle critiques of Russia, India, Phillipines, China, Iran, Myanmar, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and every other country on Amnesty International's shit-list, all through our postings within a 48 hour time period.  This is to ensure that we do not turn into raging anti-Semites because we're raggin' on poor ol' Israel for turning Palestinian lands into giant prison compounds or just razing ancient olive groves and kicking the buggers out.  Please follow the PPP at all times so as to prevent sudden onset of SASD (Spasmodic Anti-Semitic Syndrome).  Thanks!

[facilitatorn]

Trump:  I am prepared for everything, but NO, I don't think there will be a recession

Ari Melber, MSNBC:  "It's one thing for Trump to say there won't be a recession, yet another to be unprepared for it."

WTF?  He said it right after he played the clip.

We’ve heard from Stormy. We know he’s never prepared for anything.

If you don’t wash the brown off your nose, you won’t be able to smell when Donald lies to you.

[josh]

Trump:  I am prepared for everything, but NO, I don't think there will be a recession

Ari Melber, MSNBC:  "It's one thing for Trump to say there won't be a recession, yet another to be unprepared for it."

WTF?  He said it right after he played the clip.

We’ve heard from Stormy. We know he’s never prepared for anything.

If you don’t wash the brown off your nose, you won’t be able to smell when Donald lies to you.

Since he doesn't care and mostly denies it happens regardless, it is hard to tell whether he can't smell it or simply lies to us as his mentor does.

[NeedsAdjustments]

NA-The narrative you laid out was false as there is no evidence of my linking anti-Israel criticism with anti-Semitism, becasue it does not exist.

Sorry bankshot1, but this is bullshit.  bodiddley knew what you meant by "unspoken agenda."  I knew what you meant by "unspoken agenda."  As did I am sure every other person who read your post.  And as I said in the original post, Josh was implying the same thing.

I started this thread with a post critical of Israel. By the test you seem to wish I adopted I would be anti-Semitic.

It isn't the test I wish you adopted.  Its the test you and josh employ.  You say Israel deserves critique, but anyone who is critical needs to prove their intentions are pure. 

I judge people by what they post, and their Elbanese history, and how I've grown to know them over the years, that's it.

I really don't wish to judge your posting history with bodiddley, or defend him as I'm sure he can himself.  But you said that bodiddley had an unspoken agenda and that you would judge his posts by it. 

Does that make sense to you?

[REDSTATEWARD]

News Item
August 19, 2019


WASHINGTON—Planned Parenthood Federation of America said on Monday it would withdraw from the federal Title X family-planning program rather than comply with a new Trump administration rule preventing clinics from referring patients for abortions.

Leaving 40% of.Americans benefiting from Title X funding without access to their preferred provider, and many with no access to any provider at all. Got a replacement plan for them? Or, you know, it's just women who cares?

Hillsdale College is an example of an institution that refuses to adhere to federal mandates and
shuns the money that comes with them.  It makes up the difference by finding other sources of revenue. The new federal regulation bans abortion referrals by those who are federally funded, about $60 million dollars a year to Planned Parenthood.

Leaving 40% of Americans benefiting from Title X funding without access to their preferred provider, and many with no access to any provider at all. Got a replacement plan for them? Or, you know, it's just.women, who cares?

The Clinton Foundation might be a source to be tapped.
 Goodness knows it has a lot of funds in need of spending.

Oh, PP will explore all avenues to ensure it fulfills its mission to provide reproductive care to women. While proceeding with the law suit. Meanwhile, some will take note of the idea that what majority power can do to us majority power can do to them. And that if the government can silence one side.of the abortion debate it can silence.the other as well.

Elections have consequences.
But the issue is not abortion which is a SCOTUS interpreted right.
The issue at hand is federal tax support of abortions.

In every poll( in the last three years) a plurality of Americans opposes public funding of abortions. In every poll but one, that plurality is a majority. The questions vary, but the result is the same. Respondents support “banning federal funding for abortion” except in rape cases or to save the woman’s life (Politico/Morning Consult, 2019). They believe that “government health insurance programs for low-income women, like Medicaid,” should not “cover abortion” (PRRI, 2018). They oppose “using tax dollars to pay for a woman’s abortion” (Marist, 2019). They oppose allowing “Medicaid funds to be used to pay for abortions” (Politico/Harvard, 2016). When they’re told that “the Hyde Amendment prohibits federal funds from being used to fund abortions, except in the case of incest, rape or to save the life of the mother,” they endorse the amendment (YouGov, 2016). These polls aren’t close. The average gap between the pro-funding and anti-funding positions is 19 percentage points.

[josh]

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-antifa-in-america-militant-anti-fascism-isn-t-terrorism-it-s-self-defense-1.7425726?fbclid=IwAR1t9mCB7PlBZd6sS1B-gKUarLfTsinib5n_NtF7LnGp59tHEjQXfbjkQHU