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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[josh]

If you need a religion to tell you what to do, you aren't moral, just obedient. Sort of like following the law when the law is wrong. :-



So morality is a mutable thing?

How do you get that from what I wrote?

It's what you wrote.

You imply that following one's religion is automatically acting in dogmatically, and therefore, by extension not necessarily moral. You then said that following a law when the law is wrong would be the same thing. Ergo, following the law is wrong, when one decides it is, and therefore any moral tenet that compels one to follow the law goes out the window.

So, it appears that your moral compass, is ill-defined, or changes according to whether you would choose to follow a religion or a law. Hence, your morality is mutable. In other words, if nothing is wrong  (breaking the law, acting outside one's religious teachings) then everything is right.

I really don't think that is what people are striving for in the world.

So, you really sound like Trump, whose own morality appears to be hyper-elastic, able to be bent at will in order to work inside or outside the law, or outside the teachings of his religion---which appear to have been derived from the teachings of Norman Vincent Peale, whose church Trump attended.

It seems as though the lessons he learned there were perhaps overlearned, or they fit neatly into the idea that if nothing is wrong then everything is right.

From wikipedia: Peale's works came under criticism from several mental health experts, one of whom directly said Peale was a con man and a fraud.[14] These critics appeared in the early 1950s after the publication of The Power of Positive Thinking.
 
One major criticism of The Power of Positive Thinking is that the book is full of anecdotes that are hard to substantiate. Almost all of the experts and many of the testimonials that Peale quotes as supporting his philosophy are unnamed, unknown and unsourced. Examples include a "famous psychologist",[15]:52 a two-page letter from a "practicing physician",[15]:150 another "famous psychologist",[15]:169 a "prominent citizen of New York City",[15]:88 and dozens, if not hundreds, more unverifiable quotations. Similar scientific studies of questionable validity are also cited. As psychiatrist R. C. Murphy exclaimed, "All this advertising is vindicated as it were, by a strict cleaving to the side of part truth," and referred to the work and the quoted material as "implausible and woodenly pious".[16]


So, how is morality mutable, or is it fixed at a certain age, personal in nature, and not open for criticism, unless it fits your idea of eactly what it should be when.

No, your sophistry is entertaining, but has nothing to do with what I said.

[barton]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/08/17/southern-poverty-law-center-hate-groups-scam-column/2022301001/

I wrote and edited for the Family Research Council, a public advocacy organization that promoted the principles I have cared about since childhood: protecting the family, promoting the dignity of every human life and advocating for religious liberty. It reads like a tagline, but it’s also just what I believed and the way I chose to match my career with my convictions....


The Southern Poverty Law Center labeled us a 'hate group'...

It has always been easier to smear people rather than wrestle with their ideas. It’s a bully who calls names and spreads lies rather than thoroughly reading a brief’s legal arguments or challenging the rationale underlying a policy proposal. The SPLC has chosen to take the easy path — to intimidate and mislead for raw political power and financial benefit. ...

Bigots come in disguise, often.

Some context, besides this column, may be useful:

The SPLC did not arrive at the hate group designation lightly.  In their report of their investigation of the FRC, they cited a 1999 publication by FRC, Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys, which stated: "one of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the 'prophets' of a new sexual order."

This is the group the column author belongs to, and the anti-gay message she endorses in her "promoting the dignity" of all human life.  Hmm.   So linking gay men to pedophilia is not meant to fan the flames of homophobic hatred?   Just nice god-fearin' folk minding their own business? 

The SPLC was correct in its listing of FRC.  That doesn't mean they supported a violent attack on the FRC (in fact, they condemned it), nor does it mean they were saying all hate groups are precisely equivalent to neo-Nazis. 

It's this column you quoted, Ham, that's the real smear tactic.

It's her religious beliefs that were put on trial, Apparently, you ignored the other references she provided that clarify the SPLC's positions, positions she believes put her in harm's way. Words have consequences, as some like to say.

If Trump's words inspire violence, certainly making lists of hate groups can have the same outcome. I defend neither Trump nor SPLC, but do try to be at least ad open minded as you wish others to be.

Having an open mind means getting all the facts, bro.  She wasn't having her religion put on trial, she was having her organization called out on its overt gay bashing - suggesting gay men aspire to be pedophiles and want to make pedophilia legal is about as low and nasty as you can go....and are precisely the sort of words that have inspired violence against gay men.  If she's so concerned about words putting people in harm's way, she needs to do some soul searching.   Her column has a major glass houses problem.

I am not supporting of the SPLC, btw, just pointing out what appears to be a solid basis for their listing FRC as promoting hate.   Gay bashing is far more productive of violence than pinpointing the groups that do such bashing. 


As for your later "and his ilk" post...not worthy of comment.   There have been, what, ten pages of posts in the past 24 hours here.  Ever consider that some of us might have missed the post you claim we ignored?   I did not see it.   

[josh]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/03/americas/brazil-space-institute-director-fired-amazon-deforestation-intl/index.html

Trump South

[kiidcarter8]

http://a.msn.com/01/en-us/AAG8n7f?ocid=sf&fbclid=IwAR0xsATNwdUgafgniDW9-8Tq0VxXiU8Yd_j2tzmoQh5vwCDE2mVpu4Ewn48

President Trump wanted to give himself the Medal of Honor.

heh

Sick.

[josh]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/27/health/climate-change-impact-by-region/index.html

[REDSTATEWARD]

Actually, how hard would it take to get Greenland the old-fashioned way?

Harry Truman must have asked that same question.   Of course, back then we thought of many European nations as allies.

Still do.

[kiidcarter8]

https://slate.trib.al/yUI9cuq?fbclid=IwAR0ZlPWPsxsXhmptElcqct5s22MgHcuqFXVt74qXSrs2L2Wd7FF3hZWJ3V0

Brazil has fires all over the place, but the government doesn't seem to care.

Repeat after Bambi: "Man-caused climate change is a hoax, man-caused climate change is a hoax, man-caused climate change is a hoax, man-caused climate change is a hoax!"

How could our destroying forests all over the globe possibly influence anything?!

Someone said it, so its true

[facilitatorn]

http://youtu.be/ErhaWVG0o1I

An editorial from fox people will actually pay attention to.

[josh]

Gov. Jay Outslee.

[Hairy Lime]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/08/17/southern-poverty-law-center-hate-groups-scam-column/2022301001/

I wrote and edited for the Family Research Council, a public advocacy organization that promoted the principles I have cared about since childhood: protecting the family, promoting the dignity of every human life and advocating for religious liberty. It reads like a tagline, but it’s also just what I believed and the way I chose to match my career with my convictions....


The Southern Poverty Law Center labeled us a 'hate group'...

It has always been easier to smear people rather than wrestle with their ideas. It’s a bully who calls names and spreads lies rather than thoroughly reading a brief’s legal arguments or challenging the rationale underlying a policy proposal. The SPLC has chosen to take the easy path — to intimidate and mislead for raw political power and financial benefit. ...

Bigots come in disguise, often.

Some context, besides this column, may be useful:

The SPLC did not arrive at the hate group designation lightly.  In their report of their investigation of the FRC, they cited a 1999 publication by FRC, Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys, which stated: "one of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the 'prophets' of a new sexual order."

This is the group the column author belongs to, and the anti-gay message she endorses in her "promoting the dignity" of all human life.  Hmm.   So linking gay men to pedophilia is not meant to fan the flames of homophobic hatred?   Just nice god-fearin' folk minding their own business? 

The SPLC was correct in its listing of FRC.  That doesn't mean they supported a violent attack on the FRC (in fact, they condemned it), nor does it mean they were saying all hate groups are precisely equivalent to neo-Nazis. 

It's this column you quoted, Ham, that's the real smear tactic.

It's her religious beliefs that were put on trial, Apparently, you ignored the other references she provided that clarify the SPLC's positions, positions she believes put her in harm's way. Words have consequences, as some like to say.

If Trump's words inspire violence, certainly making lists of hate groups can have the same outcome. I defend neither Trump nor SPLC, but do try to be at least ad open minded as you wish others to be.

Having an open mind means getting all the facts, bro.  She wasn't having her religion put on trial, she was having her organization called out on its overt gay bashing - suggesting gay men aspire to be pedophiles and want to make pedophilia legal is about as low and nasty as you can go....and are precisely the sort of words that have inspired violence against gay men.  If she's so concerned about words putting people in harm's way, she needs to do some soul searching.   Her column has a major glass houses problem.

I am not supporting of the SPLC, btw, just pointing out what appears to be a solid basis for their listing FRC as promoting hate.   Gay bashing is far more productive of violence than pinpointing the groups that do such bashing. 


As for your later "and his ilk" post...not worthy of comment.   There have been, what, ten pages of posts in the past 24 hours here.  Ever consider that some of us might have missed the post you claim we ignored?   I did not see it.

Bigots and hate.groups spend a lot of time arguing that pointing out bigotry and hate is the real issue. FRC spreads anti-gay propaganda unsupported by any facts. They call for laws that.reflect that propaganda. That conduct is why they are a hate group.

[josh]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/newsus/mcaleenan-says-dhs-doesnt-have-resources-to-fight-rising-white-supremacy/ar-AAFqvSV?ocid=msn360&fbclid=IwAR0ZUcctRKQCCCIQvy7_jACeD7E8B4EBNPgQVLgqhDXziUt5DX0sZ4aQdrw

McAleenan said on CBS "This Morning" that "we need [to] invest more, no question."

"We do need a better effort to coordinate that at the headquarters level. And that's what I've directed. I'd like to triple the staff we have available to address this and coordinate the intelligence side of it at the headquarters level, as well as investing in those grants and efforts that are going to help communities prepare for these kind of incidents," he said.

McAleenan on Tuesday also pushed back on accusations that the Trump administration is not responding aggressively to the threat of white supremacist attacks.

"I think we are responding aggressively. The president gave us a very clear call to action, tasked the Department of Justice with a number of different steps," he said.

McAleenan pointed to active shooter training and cybersecurity training as steps the department is taking to prevent the attacks.

The department's Office of Targeted Violence and Terrorism Protection, however, reportedly has about the quarter of the staff and an eighth of the budget of a similar Obama administration program.

The comments come after at least 22 people were killed in a mass shooting in El Paso, Texas, on Saturday. The accused shooter is alleged to have written a white nationalist manifesto ahead of the attack.

Many Democrats have been quick to draw parallels between the purported white supremacist attacks and President Trump's rhetoric.

"Do you think rhetoric on a national scale by a figure of the president's stature contributes to the problem?" CBS host Anthony Mason asked McAleenan on Tuesday.

"I think we've got a responsibility to call out hate in all of its forms, and white supremacist extremism is a critical element that we're trying to address. I think the president was very clear on that yesterday," he responded.

Yeah, Trump is so serious about this that he emptied a good chunk of that department, cut another dpwn, etc. He cannot be bothered to appoint an actual Director, preferring the control that having only acting directors gives him - not legal, but only stoppable by the Senate, which is not doing its job.

And this fellow? In over his head, clearly, if not with the rising incidence of violent white supremacy then with needing to buck Trump to get what his department needs. I wonder if we hear from him again.

[josh]

https://slate.trib.al/yUI9cuq?fbclid=IwAR0ZlPWPsxsXhmptElcqct5s22MgHcuqFXVt74qXSrs2L2Wd7FF3hZWJ3V0

Brazil has fires all over the place, but the government doesn't seem to care.

Repeat after Bambi: "Man-caused climate change is a hoax, man-caused climate change is a hoax, man-caused climate change is a hoax, man-caused climate change is a hoax!"

How could our destroying forests all over the globe possibly influence anything?!

Someone said it, so its true

Any evidence that it is not true?

No, of course not. And you would complain if we said you said it was not true that you said no such thing.

Asshole.

Also, as I already posted... if they care, it is in the wrong direction.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/03/americas/brazil-space-institute-director-fired-amazon-deforestation-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3VtVy_MdArhk_rW1TwpRXAMcL1gok7ulDbZQIhlnytYPawTQo3F4GgHIE

[josh]

Actually, how hard would it take to get Greenland the old-fashioned way?

Harry Truman must have asked that same question.   Of course, back then we thought of many European nations as allies.

Still do.

It's not how we treat them.

But you know that.

[Hairy Lime]

Gov. Jay Outslee.

There el be a manageable number soon.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Actually, how hard would it take to get Greenland the old-fashioned way?

Harry Truman must have asked that same question.   Of course, back then we thought of many European nations as allies.

Still do.

It's not how we treat them.

Really?
How do we treat them?