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Russia will gain eastern Ukraine territories and hold them, as it has Crimea

5 (45.5%)

Russia will temporarily gain eastern Ukraine territories before being forced out of them

2 (18.2%)

Efforts to confront the Russian forces and get them out of Ukraine will lead to Putin's escalating and attacking NATO countries directly with missiles or other destructive measures

0 (0%)

The NATO/World response will be so mild that Putin will go ahead and take the rest of Ukraine

3 (27.3%)

Today Ukraine, tomorrow Moldova and who knows where else

1 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 01, 2022, 01:18:43 PM

[luee]

Sleepy Joe is gramps.

[facilitatorn]

Putin is very much asking for it, but Zelensky or elements within Russia should pull the trigger.

Moscow itself or or any other Russian city would be collateral damage much less than what Russia has inflicted since February.

Putin seems to be rapidly ramping up both the threat and execution of his escalation. Napalm, cluster, and phosphorus munitions are being fired by Russians in the Donbas. The threats grow more shrill and ominous.

This would necessitate following up with hitting anything military that moves within Russia till what is left all holds still. The gamble is that what remains in and emerges from the rubble will be less bold and less crazy than the crazy Putin has reached and is headed toward.

If the rat is really feeling this cornered, it might be time to think about fragging it, or at least updating that set of contingency plans.

[kidcarter8]

So, what are you saying?

[josh]

Putin is very much asking for it, but Zelensky or elements within Russia should pull the trigger.

Moscow itself or or any other Russian city would be collateral damage much less than what Russia has inflicted since February.

Putin seems to be rapidly ramping up both the threat and execution of his escalation. Napalm, cluster, and phosphorus munitions are being fired by Russians in the Donbas. The threats grow more shrill and ominous.

This would necessitate following up with hitting anything military that moves within Russia till what is left all holds still. The gamble is that what remains in and emerges from the rubble will be less bold and less crazy than the crazy Putin has reached and is headed toward.

If the rat is really feeling this cornered, it might be time to think about fragging it, or at least updating that set of contingency plans.

"fragging it" vs. nuking it? Or do you mean nuking?

[facilitatorn]

A big bunch of very big fairly conventional warheads would do it. No need to resort to nukes.

I am not saying do it at this point. I am saying have it ready to go.

[josh]

A big bunch of very big fairly conventional warheads would do it. No need to resort to nukes.

I am not saying do it at this point. I am saying have it ready to go.

I doubt it has ever been anything but ready to go since at least 1950.

And if we ever launched them before a nuclear attack from Russia, Putin would launch.

[facilitatorn]

Only launch an attack you are fairly sure Putin will not survive. If that means flattening several neighborhoods down to the subbasements, so be it. Better in attacking an authoritarian state to hit all the authority centers at once, especially the military ones. It gives a good chance of delaying a counter attack or causing too much chaos for one to be launched.

If large numbers of ballistic missile batteries in Russia come on line and point west, this might be an action that warrants that type of response.

[josh]

"The war will not end with meetings. The war will end when the Russian Federation decides to end it and when there is a serious political agreement. We can have all meetings but that is not what will end the war."

UN Sec'y General Guterres

[Holly Martins]

Only launch an attack you are fairly sure Putin will not survive. If that means flattening several neighborhoods down to the subbasements, so be it....

Um, neighborhoods with civilians living there??  I'm thinking of Nietzsche's quote about the abyss right now.

[facilitatorn]

A neighborhood or more goes each day in Ukraine equivalent to the Kremlin and its surrounds along with every far flinging installation and command post.

If Putin decides the way to keep his dream alive and his parade afloat is to thump into Poland and go for vital infrastructure with the discrimination and precision it has so far showed in Ukraine, and it is detected in the wind up, does it not make sense to stop the attack and any follow up orders at least in the short term by unleashing equivalent arbitrary carnage to take the best available shot to take the head off the pyramid?

From Russia so far this conflict has included

Mass bombardments

Mass graves

Mass deportations

Mass involuntary conscription

Rape

Murder

Pillage

Phosphorus munitions

Cluster munitions

Thermobaric munitions

and the list could go on.

Based on the progress so far what lines do you see being respected by the Russian approach?

As pressure and losses mount do you see them likely to stay respected in the future, especially if necessary preparation for such a move is detected?

[luee]

Putin is following the early 20th century roadmap of megalomaniacs only way to stop him is to kill or less likely capture him. Fotunately the Russian military is not too powerful or efficient. But there is the Nuke card. Cannot be that difficult to target him with drones and or missiles? A lot less costly than what is happening now.

[FlyingVProd]

60 Minutes

April 28 at 12:36 PM 

Nearly half of Ukrainians say they are worried about finding their next meal, according to the World Food Programme. So far, the WFP has mobilized food supplies to 2.5M people. Sunday, Scott Pelley enters Ukraine and follows the WFPs efforts to curb the hunger crisis.

-----------

Putin must be stopped.

Salute,

Tony V.

[Holly Martins]

A neighborhood or more goes each day in Ukraine equivalent to the Kremlin and its surrounds along with every far flinging installation and command post....

I have noticed.  I just meant civilians in Moscow are not accountable for Putin's autocratic horror of a government, and war.  If we back Moscow bombings with collateral deaths to take out Putin, we have become the enemy and will validate their atrocities.  And violate international law on extrajudicial killings, thus promoting open season on state leaders.  (just back from a trip, so been slow to reply here)

[Holly Martins]

https://twitter.com/StuartKLau/status/1520371062055313408?s=20&t=Fz7J1Hj5_VMxmU8ZyuBshw

Even China's state news organ, Xinhua, seems to allow some criticism of Russia, in interview with Ukraine official.

[kidcarter8]

A neighborhood or more goes each day in Ukraine equivalent to the Kremlin and its surrounds along with every far flinging installation and command post....

I have noticed.  I just meant civilians in Moscow are not accountable for Putin's autocratic horror of a government, and war.  If we back Moscow bombings with collateral deaths to take out Putin, we have become the enemy and will validate their atrocities.  And violate international law on extrajudicial killings, thus promoting open season on state leaders.  (just back from a trip, so been slow to reply here)

What do you think US citizens would do if our president (Biden or any past or future) just decided to take our military and run over Mexico or Canada?

Nothing?