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[Hairy Lime]

Bet Americans are happy they have guns ready to fire in case it all becomes crazy violent there.
Guns are great, for self defence in America against violence caused by overseas religious wars.

Well, I know three people who might not be.

https://www.denverpost.com/2023/10/14/three-killed-three-injured-denver-shooting/

[Espnthree]

According to RedDick and bambu, Hamas's fault:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/6-year-old-boy-killed-anti-muslim-attack-illinois-police-say-rcna120543

It is Hamas' fault.
Hamas invaded Israel, its atrocities sent some people's minds off-centre.
Then there are people in America celebrating the horrors of Hamas.
Next minute a boy is dead.
Of course that is horrible.
But no surprise to me.

What if Hamas's war crimes of last Sunday were in retaliation to a provocation by Israel?
Wouldn't that make the massacre Israel's fault? That is Hamas's view of the case.
They were responding to Israeli provocations, who was responding to Palesintians provocation who was responding to Israeli provocation and on and on back to the mandate creating Israel against the express wishes of 61% of the people then living in the area, and in reality dating back to Sarah forcing Abraham to expel Hagar and Ishmael. It is a very very slippery slope to start excusing barbaric and illegal conduct because it was triggered by prior barbaric and criminal conduct.

Except , of course, the original sin of the 1948 partition of Palestine was the  Arab refusal
to co exist with Israel.

In reality Israel will be responsible for any war crimes it commits, regardless of provocation.
Just as Hamas is. Israel's war crimes are not Hamas's fault any more than Hamas's are Israel's.

Not true. It is not a war crime to respond to an attack.( see Hiroshima, Dresden) And the history of this
conflict is replete with acts of war by Arabs.  If Hamas puts missiles into schools, for example, to kill Jews, Israel is justified in demolishing the school.
Period.

[Espnthree]

Jewish Lives Matter

[facilitatorn]

According to RedDick and bambu, Hamas's fault:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/6-year-old-boy-killed-anti-muslim-attack-illinois-police-say-rcna120543

It is Hamas' fault.
Hamas invaded Israel, its atrocities sent some people's minds off-centre.
Then there are people in America celebrating the horrors of Hamas.
Next minute a boy is dead.
Of course that is horrible.
But no surprise to me.

You are and remain an ignorant savage. No surprise there either.

[facilitatorn]

And Red remains as ever a blinkered ass, ready to stumble through shit for whatever war pig holds his lead.

[Hairy Lime]

According to RedDick and bambu, Hamas's fault:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/6-year-old-boy-killed-anti-muslim-attack-illinois-police-say-rcna120543

It is Hamas' fault.
Hamas invaded Israel, its atrocities sent some people's minds off-centre.
Then there are people in America celebrating the horrors of Hamas.
Next minute a boy is dead.
Of course that is horrible.
But no surprise to me.

What if Hamas's war crimes of last Sunday were in retaliation to a provocation by Israel?
Wouldn't that make the massacre Israel's fault? That is Hamas's view of the case.
They were responding to Israeli provocations, who was responding to Palesintians provocation who was responding to Israeli provocation and on and on back to the mandate creating Israel against the express wishes of 61% of the people then living in the area, and in reality dating back to Sarah forcing Abraham to expel Hagar and Ishmael. It is a very very slippery slope to start excusing barbaric and illegal conduct because it was triggered by prior barbaric and criminal conduct.

Except , of course, the original sin of the 1948 partition of Palestine was the  Arab refusal
to co exist with Israel.

Yeah, for some reason the Arab majority objected to having a settlement imposed on them, with no regard to any right of self-determination despite the UN Charter, that gave 1/3.of the population 2/3 of the land, most of which they owned. Weird they objected to that.

In reality Israel will be responsible for any war crimes it commits, regardless of provocation.
Just as Hamas is. Israel's war crimes are not Hamas's fault any more than Hamas's are Israel's.

Not true. It is not a war crime to respond to an attack.( see Hiroshima, Dresden) And the history of this
conflict is replete with acts of war by Arabs.  If Hamas puts missiles into schools, for example, to kill Jews, Israel is justified in demolishing the school.
Period.

You are correct.  Responding is not in and of itself a war crime. How you respond may be. If Israel does commit war crimes, regardless of who started it, Israel will bear the legal and moral responsibility for those crimes.

[Espnthree]

According to RedDick and bambu, Hamas's fault:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/6-year-old-boy-killed-anti-muslim-attack-illinois-police-say-rcna120543

It is Hamas' fault.
Hamas invaded Israel, its atrocities sent some people's minds off-centre.
Then there are people in America celebrating the horrors of Hamas.
Next minute a boy is dead.
Of course that is horrible.
But no surprise to me.

What if Hamas's war crimes of last Sunday were in retaliation to a provocation by Israel?
Wouldn't that make the massacre Israel's fault? That is Hamas's view of the case.
They were responding to Israeli provocations, who was responding to Palesintians provocation who was responding to Israeli provocation and on and on back to the mandate creating Israel against the express wishes of 61% of the people then living in the area, and in reality dating back to Sarah forcing Abraham to expel Hagar and Ishmael. It is a very very slippery slope to start excusing barbaric and illegal conduct because it was triggered by prior barbaric and criminal conduct.

Except , of course, the original sin of the 1948 partition of Palestine was the  Arab refusal
to co exist with Israel.

Yeah, for some reason the Arab majority objected to having a settlement imposed on them, with no regard to any right of self-determination despite the UN Charter, that gave 1/3.of the population 2/3 of the land, most of which they owned. Weird they objected to that.

In reality Israel will be responsible for any war crimes it commits, regardless of provocation.
Just as Hamas is. Israel's war crimes are not Hamas's fault any more than Hamas's are Israel's.

Not true. It is not a war crime to respond to an attack.( see Hiroshima, Dresden) And the history of this
conflict is replete with acts of war by Arabs.  If Hamas puts missiles into schools, for example, to kill Jews, Israel is justified in demolishing the school.
Period.

You are correct.  Responding is not in and of itself a war crime. How you respond may be. If Israel does commit war crimes, regardless of who started it, Israel will bear the legal and moral responsibility for those crimes.

Nice dodge.
Hamas has already forfeited anything moral about its actions.
Israel is thus justified in the absolute annihilation of Hamas since anything less is a threat to the existence of Israel.
Israel uses its missiles to protect its citizens.
Hamas uses its citizens to protect its missiles.

[facilitatorn]

And Red remains as ever a blinkered ass, ready to stumble through shit for whatever war pig holds his lead.

[bambu.]

Oct 12 2023
The Missed Chance for Peace

David Brooks
New York Times

Prime Minister Ehud Barak of Israel, President Bill Clinton and Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat at Camp David in 2000.

But this offer pointed the way to the sort of fair solution negotiators had been struggling toward for years. It is hard to see this kind of option ever being on the table again. And the Palestinians let it slip away.

#####

Indeed.
Seems a big waste of time trying to talk with the Palestinians and their allies, the Arab states.
A big waste of time.

[facilitatorn]

Not nearly as much as a waste as it would be talking to you.

[bambu.]

Not nearly as much as a waste as it would be talking to you.

LOL

Unfortunately the Palestinians didn't consult me.
I would've advised them to take the deal, as it was a good and fair one, the best deal they'd ever get.
They didn't take the Bill Clinton/Israel deal....and now look at Gaza!...basically rubble.

[bambu.]

Do Palestinians use their children and other family members as suicide bombers?

[facilitatorn]

Do Australians die of autoerotic asphyxiation?

[bambu.]

Do Australians die of autoerotic asphyxiation?

Well, do Palestinians use their children and other family members as suicide bombers?

[bambu.]

Jewish Lives Matter

You could be forgiven for thinking otherwise, given what's on show in the West today, including in America.