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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[kiidcarter8]

Another good looking game for Darius Garland today

Outplaying RJ, no doubt.

[lesterluv]

Les, you killed my post!!!

Sorry Los, when I saw the 19 boards I just couldn't help myself!

*** and, after last night's game, I was badly in need of some small diversion

[carlos123]

Les, you killed my post!!!

Sorry Los, when I saw the 19 boards I just couldn't help myself!

*** and, after last night's game, I was badly in need of some small diversion

Ok, I totally understand. Last nite was TOUGH. 😭

[chipstern]

Another good looking game for Darius Garland today

Outplaying RJ, no doubt.

Says YOU. 

[FWK00]

As for Frankie's development, well, this is the Knicks.. Its only now, with Miller as head coach, do our youth stand any chance of actually realizing their potential.

I don't understand this nonsense.
- Mitch, as a raw 2nd rounder, developed quite nicely last year under Fizz. 
- No-names Trier & Dot were given plenty of opps, instead of getting buried on the bench. 
- Knox and RJB were given tons of minutes and freedom as rooks (too much in my book). 
- I'd agree Franc got jerked around a bit, but some of that is on Franc, with his timid inability to being the ball upcourt, paint allergy, embarrassingly telegraphed passes, and lack of shot or willingness to shoot, compounded by injuries last year.

Frankie is actually accelerating ... But he's a star in the making, maybe a generational Knicks player.  His value today is small potatoes and the money nonsense is just hot air.  This kid is playing his way into better days. 

I'm not sure even Franc's close relatives believe this.  Not just rose-colored glasses, but infra-rose vision, so you can see into a future that will not exist.

I actually like Franc and pull for him, but I find it real hard to see Franc as a starting PG.  He's akin to Knox -- I like him , I pull for him, but there's so much for him to work on.  I think Charlie Ward is about his upside, I doubt he can reach Pa Bev heights.  I can see him as an effective bench player, playing long-armed D, efficiently shooting few shots, being capable of running a 2nd unit.
I'd like Franc (and Knox) to be 10+ year Knix, but I still think we badly need a starting caliber PG for now and the future.  I'm even willing to take on 34 year old Chris Paul and his $40M to have one.

I also don't get this talk of needing a C, as though it was pressing.  Sure it'd be nice to have a Baynes type bully, and this year has seen somewhat of a resurgence in C usage.  But I'd prioritize a starting PG, a 3&D wing, and a deadeye shooter over a beefy C.  It shouldn't be hard to pick up a Plumlee or Zeller or Len or Baynes or such on the cheap.  At least we never boned up by dumping $15+M on a stiff like Mahinmi.(well, we did back in the day with Jerome James and Eddy Curry)

Bo, any MR development only came after the Knicks acquired Deandre Jordan.  Fizdale added jack-sh@t to MR's development.  And Knox and the rest of the kids were given zero guidance in terms of playing disciplined system basketball.  Empty stats during a seson empty of wins or purpose is not development.  Fizdale was garbage and I said so in realtime.

Frank's treatment at the hands of Fizdale was no different than anyone else.  Fizdale was wholly ambivalent - waiting on Durant and KI and veterans.  To Fizdale the rooks were just disposable pawns.

Capisce?


As for Frankie, he ain't getting any smaller.  He's already elite on the defensive side of the ball and a better shooter than all of Know, RJ, and Trier - go check out a thread on Ultimate Knicks for a nice breakout.

Yes, he confounds everyone who has preconceived ideas about what a PG should/could/would look like.  He's an original.  The true unicorn of Phil's drafting.
Gaines still loves his game and thinks the Knicks would forever regret trading him.  Wally has no use for him but Hahn has shown an open, if skeptical, mind.  And anyone watching games can tell you its a different team in a good way with Frankie on the court.

He's also the Knicks best loved player.  MSG loves this kid.  Frankie is part of the solution and not the problem.

[chipstern]

As for Frankie's development, well, this is the Knicks.. Its only now, with Miller as head coach, do our youth stand any chance of actually realizing their potential.

I don't understand this nonsense.
- Mitch, as a raw 2nd rounder, developed quite nicely last year under Fizz. 
- No-names Trier & Dot were given plenty of opps, instead of getting buried on the bench. 
- Knox and RJB were given tons of minutes and freedom as rooks (too much in my book). 
- I'd agree Franc got jerked around a bit, but some of that is on Franc, with his timid inability to being the ball upcourt, paint allergy, embarrassingly telegraphed passes, and lack of shot or willingness to shoot, compounded by injuries last year.

Frankie is actually accelerating ... But he's a star in the making, maybe a generational Knicks player.  His value today is small potatoes and the money nonsense is just hot air.  This kid is playing his way into better days. 

I'm not sure even Franc's close relatives believe this.  Not just rose-colored glasses, but infra-rose vision, so you can see into a future that will not exist.

I actually like Franc and pull for him, but I find it real hard to see Franc as a starting PG.  He's akin to Knox -- I like him , I pull for him, but there's so much for him to work on.  I think Charlie Ward is about his upside, I doubt he can reach Pa Bev heights.  I can see him as an effective bench player, playing long-armed D, efficiently shooting few shots, being capable of running a 2nd unit.
I'd like Franc (and Knox) to be 10+ year Knix, but I still think we badly need a starting caliber PG for now and the future.  I'm even willing to take on 34 year old Chris Paul and his $40M to have one.

I also don't get this talk of needing a C, as though it was pressing.  Sure it'd be nice to have a Baynes type bully, and this year has seen somewhat of a resurgence in C usage.  But I'd prioritize a starting PG, a 3&D wing, and a deadeye shooter over a beefy C.  It shouldn't be hard to pick up a Plumlee or Zeller or Len or Baynes or such on the cheap.  At least we never boned up by dumping $15+M on a stiff like Mahinmi.(well, we did back in the day with Jerome James and Eddy Curry)

Bo, any MR development only came after the Knicks acquired Deandre Jordan.  Fizdale added jack-sh@t to MR's development.  And Knox and the rest of the kids were given zero guidance in terms of playing disciplined system basketball.  Empty stats during a seson empty of wins or purpose is not development.  Fizdale was garbage and I said so in realtime.

Frank's treatment at the hands of Fizdale was no different than anyone else.  Fizdale was wholly ambivalent - waiting on Durant and KI and veterans.  To Fizdale the rooks were just disposable pawns.

Capisce?


As for Frankie, he ain't getting any smaller.  He's already elite on the defensive side of the ball and a better shooter than all of Know, RJ, and Trier - go check out a thread on Ultimate Knicks for a nice breakout.

Yes, he confounds everyone who has preconceived ideas about what a PG should/could/would look like.  He's an original.  The true unicorn of Phil's drafting.
Gaines still loves his game and thinks the Knicks would forever regret trading him.  Wally has no use for him but Hahn has shown an open, if skeptical, mind.  And anyone watching games can tell you its a different team in a good way with Frankie on the court.

He's also the Knicks best loved player.  MSG loves this kid.  Frankie is part of the solution and not the problem.

Capiche

[chipstern]

Waiter? 

One Dick Up The Ass For Table 13.  With a side of crow sashimi...hold the wasabi....

Guess who, nose bleed? 

23 Minutes

10-13 FG

2-2   FT

22 Points

7 Offensive Boards

12 Defensive Boards

19 Total Boards   

1 Assist

For a +11

Pucker up, Kamster.  Enes sure is a bum, ain't he?

Oh, Celtics 140, Pelicans 105.

WE now return to EVISCERATE & DISMISS FRANK PREMATURELY, the board game, brought to you by The Kamster, Makers of Non-Aromatic Feces, The Bored Game from Milton Badly. 

[chipstern]

Big game for Luke in win over the Pistons. 

[FWK00]

As for Frankie's development, well, this is the Knicks.. Its only now, with Miller as head coach, do our youth stand any chance of actually realizing their potential.

-snip-

Frankie is actually accelerating ... But he's a star in the making, maybe a generational Knicks player.  His value today is small potatoes and the money nonsense is just hot air.  This kid is playing his way into better days. 

-snip


I'd like Franc (and Knox) to be 10+ year Knix, but I still think we badly need a starting caliber PG for now and the future.  I'm even willing to take on 34 year old Chris Paul and his $40M to have one.

I also don't get this talk of needing a C, as though it was pressing.  Sure it'd be nice to have a Baynes type bully, and this year has seen somewhat of a resurgence in C usage.  But I'd prioritize a starting PG, a 3&D wing, and a deadeye shooter over a beefy C.  It shouldn't be hard to pick up a Plumlee or Zeller or Len or Baynes or such on the cheap.  At least we never boned up by dumping $15+M on a stiff like Mahinmi.(well, we did back in the day with Jerome James and Eddy Curry)

In general terms, the only tweaking I think that's necessary with the PG position is that DSJ needs to be moved.  Payton has been distracted lately because of a new baby and ugly as that looks in recent games we weren't beating the Clips or Lakers anyway so this is as good a time as any to have his head spin.

IMO, the two-headed Payton/Frankie PG coverage is ideal.  Both have great potential and represent consistent expectations on the court. Allen backs both in complementary fashion.

However, I've also come to the conclusion that the Knicks need to trade into a contender.  Draft picks are nice but Free Agency  has become a perennial, flaccid tease.  While I'm open to CP3 or Westbrook, I don't think either are interested in joining the Knicks and forcing that never ends well.

I *could*, however see Rubio or Conley fit nicely in which case I think Payton gets moved as a consequence in one trade or another.  And I don't see it as an abandonment of the rebuild - Frankie needs a couple of years before he takes the reigns for good.

I've been advocating for months that we need a C who can come in and apply the same kind of defensive pressure as Mitch.  Now, teams can bait MR into fouling out and while Gibson and Portis are fine rotation players, it doesn't click.

Now, for months I've advocated any trade be a multi-player trade that opened a roster spot for Wooten - an MR doppleganger.  But here I'm willing to admit I'm not confident this is good enough.  Wooten is not a basketball player yet but he is *raw* talent.

And the more I watch the Knicks, MR thrives against sub-par teams and wilts against winning teams.  He gets bullied and pushed around a lot.  The Knicks need a pit-bull of their own to change that equation.  I'm actually open to Drummond assuming the price isn't Mitch.  They'd be a hell of a tag team.

If the Knicks could move Randall, DSJ, and Ellington for Drummond and Kennard, what's not to like?

If Morris gets traded, my first choice of likely candidates would be Kuzma.

Knox is another player I'd like to see flipped for an equivalent talent.  Nor is RJ untouchable, IMO.  Ratchet up the immediate talent pool.

[facilitatorn]

That’s counting on our FO to win a trade. If we do anything, I’m capping my hopes at a wash that at least somewhat balances the roster and adds a new element.

Morris Bullock Barrett Knox and Dotson are a credible set of wings.

I like the Idea of Taj backing up Randle, especially if there is a market for Portis.

Mitch is a player and a pup. I’d like him to grow with a skills guy who’s a bit heavier and uses his base.

I think Miller is slowly rounding the turn on having our PGs getting the team organized and is starting to make inroads on getting the team to make ops for the pgs and both Payton and Frank are finding the gumption to take them.

Here’s a nice balance the roster trade I’d drop a second rounder into; Portis & Ellington for Marc Gasol & Rondae Hollis-Jefferson. It saves the Raps about 5 mil. Backing up Ibaka, Portis would put up numbers for them and you can surround him with defenders he can goon for. Ellington adds shooting and experience, good for a playoff team that has excellent PG’s and other threats.

Mitch gets to learn from Marc, who already has a ring. With RHJ for Portis what we lose in threes we make up for in D and mobility.

[carlos123]

Both very nice trades, but more like armed robberies. Why on earth would either the Pistons or the Raptors agree to be raped by perrymills?

[bodiddley]

Payton and Franc can't make 3's.  Hardly ideal.  Payton is a quality backup PG.  Franc struggling to get to that level.
_______________________________________________

Maybe TOR feels they have too much defense and feel they need some inconsistent chuckers?  If so, great trade.  Clearly not happening.  We couldn't even get Ma Gasol & StanJohn for Portis/Ellington/Jr. Smith.  In fact, why would they move Ma Gas?
Or want our chumps?
________________________________________

I can't see how anyone would think that Drummond and Randle would make a good pairing.  Isn't Drummond just a larger fatter Randle?  They could make a good offensive line.

Sure, I'd swap Randle for Bulldog Drummond, but why would DET?  They already have Blake at PF doing essentially the same but better, when/if his knee heals up.  They're gonna cash out their best player for redundancy and nothing much?

I feel bad for DET.  I thought Drummond could become the kind of monster Embiid has become.  RegJax seemed a good candidate as a starting PG.  Stan John looked like a glue guy wing defender.   Looked like a solid plan, but none of it panned out.  SVG also consistently failed to deliver a bench.  Though they did resurrect Ish Smith.

Drummond is still a force, but he's plateaued, is still foul- and error-prone on D.  Jax is always crippled.  StanJohn couldn't make a shot.   Blake was of course a semi-desperation gamble, and he's been good when healthy.  But when he was healthy, RegJax and/or Drummond tended to be gimpy.  And they lost Tobias to get Blake.  Kennard is a nice shooter.

[Kam]

And anyone watching games can tell you its a different team in a good way with Frankie on the court.

Why not look at the offensive/defensive and net ratings when frank is on the court.

Hint: It's not that good.

[Kam]

Why not post Mitchell Robinson statlines?  Our 21 year old C.  The guy who blossomed once we shipped that sad sack of shit he who won't be named out the door. 

[Kam]

NBA Youth take tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime to develop.  Not months, not two or three years but four and five years.

Then it is only smart to let the slow ones develop on someone else's time.   The NBA isn't a developmental league. It's a wins league.  Losses for the sake of a lottery ticket are no longer a viable strategy.