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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[kidcarter8]

Didnt Charlotte have a Point guard?  Why would they draft LaMelo Ball?

[kidcarter8]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2020-nba-draft-grade-knicks-select-obi-toppin-with-no-8-overall-pick/

Toppin is going to be an excellent pick-and-roll finisher even as a rookie thanks to his elite leaping ability and craft near the basket. That alone makes him a valuable offensive player. His chance at stardom relies on the rest of his promising offensive game. Toppin made 39 percent of his 3-pointers last season at Dayton. He handles the ball well for a big man, and while his size could be a limitation in the post against centers, he should thrive against mismatches off of switches. He's drawn comparisons to Amar'e Stoude
mire for a reason. Toppin has a chance to be the very best offensive player in this class.

He'll have to be in order to make up for his defensive shortcomings, though. Toppin is too small to play center and not nearly quick enough to function as a modern power forward on defense. He doesn't move well laterally, he's often in the wrong place schematically and is a fairly underwhelming rebounder. Toppin's future relies on finding a way to at least play average defense. With his offensive upside, that's all he needs.

That is especially true now that he'll be paired with Mitchell Robinson, one of the best young defensive big men in basketball. A decade ago, the Knicks added Stoudemire in free agency and kicked off the best stretch of basketball this franchise has seen this century. Now, in Toppin, they've found a similar talent. The Knicks may have plenty of power forwards on their roster, but Toppin should own the position for them moving forward.


NBA Draft grade: A+ 

The Knicks obviously need a lot, but that fan base will love this guy. They desperately want something to be excited about. Toppin can be that. I would not have taken him first overall, but he should not have dropped this far and should be the favorite for rookie of the year.  -- Gary Parrish

[bodiddley]

To upgrade.  To get a franchise player.
Who was CHA's headline PG? 
Rozier, a scoring G who averages 3.4 assists?
DeVonte Graham, an SG in a PG body?

Nobody billed ObiT as a potential franchise player.
The other problem is both Randle and ObiT are single position players.
I doubt they've shared the court for more than a few minutes here and there.
There's also a world of difference between PF and PG in today's NBA.

Can't you come up with better dumb questions?

It must be tough living in a context-free world.

[kidcarter8]

Yes

It was Graham

Clearly they needed a power forward more.

But of course teams dont always draft positionally - which is the point I am making to counter what you said about Randle/Toppin.

Isnt there still a scenario where given Julius's demands on a new contract Knicks deal him for decent value and go with Toppin as the starter?

If not, can we use Toppin 25+ minutes off the bench or is there not that many minutes even if he is playing well offensively and unwoeful defensively?

If not, part 2 - could we still deal Toppin for pretty good value?

You might envision Knicks as an emerging force if we had just selected (your second choice) Hali, given a newly minted Randle (which you didnt foresee).  But that is surely no given either. 

Toppin still has a high offensive ceiling and will very likely be a ten year NBA player getting minutes, minimally.  Its nonsense to shit on the pick.

[bodiddley]

There's also a world of difference between PF and PG in today's NBA.
A franchise PG is gold.  (I was willing to trade Mitch and #8 for LaMelo)

Otherwise CHA drafted PJ Washington #12 in 2019, and he's reasonably solid and developing PF.  They needed a PG and C.

I was down on the ObiT pick months before we made it.
We haven't really seen what ObiT can do.  But in many ways that was baked into the pick with Thibs preference for vet-heavy minutes, Randle's status as our best player, neither having positional versatility, ObiT's defensive weakness, etc.

I assume Knix brass deemed ObiT the BPA and would figure it out later.
With so many other needs and other intriguing players dropping, it was a questionable pick.

Maybe we'll get to see what ObiT can do when Randle finally breaks down from Thibs abuse ...

[kidcarter8]

With so many other needs and other intriguing players dropping, it was a questionable pick.


It really wasn't

And don't forget - they interview these guys as well.

[kidcarter8]

Maybe we'll get to see what ObiT can do when Randle finally breaks down from Thibs abuse ...


If you dont already see what he can do you aren't watching closely enough.

[bodiddley]

So far ObiT is a guy who can work the baseline pretty effectively, both driving and cutting.  Otherwise he can make 30% of his 3's, is a willing ball-over, and fouls.  His rebounding seems okay, and he's good at saving balls that about to go over the endline.  That's what I've seen.  Have we even seen ObiT in a PnR all season? 
I know specifics aren't your forte.

ObiT might have reasonable trade value in a package deal, but usually it's a red flag when a team is wiling to move a lottery pick in his first few years.  While ObiT is already 23 with minimal rookie year experience, so it's not like teams will bank on youth and great development to come.   Not saying that's true as plenty of players improve greatly later in their 20's, but the allure of yute is strong in the NBA and teams can project a 19 year old Kevin Knox becoming a Terry Cummings. 
[meanwhile, Mikal Bridges has become a significant 3&D wing swiss army knife player, guarding 1-4 and making hustle plays while popping 3's (53/41/82 shooting splits); Miles Bridges has become a solid workhorse who has really upped his efficiency in a lesser offensive role (49/38-88) and starting now that Hayward is encrippled; Porterhouse Jr. is a lights out 6'10" shooter and solid boarder who plays chumpy D; Shai a PG magician; Knox a lump of clay with confidence issues, poor D and some 3-ball promise]

[bodiddley]

Saw 2nd half of BOS-PHI.
Celts look uninspired, low-energy.
PHI has a large active defense and that bothered the Celts alot.  Plenty of shots late in the clock.  Knix have a similar D and should follow that blueprint.  In the 4Q, BOS tried a zone against the iffy shooting '6ers, but it didn't work as PHI spaced the court and made long effective passes.  BOS turned the ball over and lost the ball a lot when PHI packed the paint. 

Bos had a lot of trouble with Embiid, with Robert Will fouling out in short minutes, Taco Fall guy not a deterrent.  Hell, Luke Kornet looked about the best, at least stretching the floor on O (though he passed up some open looks).  BOS announcers call Kornet the Green Hornet.  I've always liked Kornet, skilled, some toughness. 

Celtics just didn't look coherent or enthused on either end.  Kemba will sit out the NYK game as the tail end of a B2B.  BOS announcers were wondering if Celts should have sat Kemba the 1st game and played him v. the lesser Knix, hoping to get one win instead of possibly losing a pair.  Celts without much time to turn the season around.

Knix should try to pounce early on and demoralize BOS.
1Q go back to the 3 R's: Randle, Reggie and RJB.
Should be winnable with Kemba out and BOS in disarray.

[kidcarter8]

I dont think we are dealing Toppin unless we get bowled over by an offer.  I think his value in deal is quite high right now.

[bodiddley]

Of the 51 players from the 2018 draft who have appeared in at least 12 games, Knox is 47th in FG% (an ugly 37% career FG).
Mitch is 2nd best at 70.5FG.

Trivia Q: Who is the only 2018 draftee with a higher career FG% than Mitch.


Other thoughts:
DET going in for a major rebuild and trying to hunt up young talent let slip away Bruce Brown, killing it for BKY, and Christian Wood, who had a breakout year for DET and was a relatively cheap FA re-sign.  Yeesh.

[kidcarter8]

Went over that already

Wood was leaving, period.  And his dollars were used for Grant

I like what they are doing

So, we went the other way, keeping Knox and Frank.  Does that now appear wise?

[carlos123]

Of the 51 players from the 2018 draft who have appeared in at least 12 games, Knox is 47th in FG% (an ugly 37% career FG).
Mitch is 2nd best at 70.5FG.

Trivia Q: Who is the only 2018 draftee with a higher career FG% than Mitch.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2018.html

Round 1      Totals   Shooting   Per Game   Advanced
Rk   Pk   Tm   Player               College          Yrs      G     MP    PTS   TRB   AST    FG% 3P%    FT%    MP  PTS TRB   AST   WS   WS/48     BPM   VORP
27   27   BOS   Robert Williams   Texas A&M    3   104   1458   579   504   107   .727   .000   .646   14.0   5.6   4.8   1.0   7.8   .256           5.4   2.7

[Kam]

OBVIOUS goaltend on the Rose floater.

[Kam]

Randle had Smart on him and he passes up the shot?? That turns into RJ fumbling the possession.