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Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: February 13, 2022, 10:41:25 PM

[kidcarter8]

Wondering....

do you think Ortiz was STILL doing steroids his last 4 years, age 37-40?   After being suspected and having to deny it, he STILL proceeded to "cheat"?

[Hamilton Samuels]

Tested positive for PEDs.

And this is the line you use that proves that you dope more than Ortiz and I combined.

Here you go, from a source we know you trust, too:Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz, the sluggers who helped the Boston Red Sox end an 86-year World Series championship drought and capture another title three years later, were among the roughly 100 Major League Baseball players to test positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, according to lawyers with knowledge of the results.


https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sports/baseball/31doping.html


 
Tainted championships, tainted players, tainted HOF.

'T'ain't nothing you can say to refute that, either.


I suppose you think it was just the change in ball parks that had Ortiz going from 11.6 homer average in 5 seasons in Minnesota to 41.6 homer average in first 5 seasons in Boston.

Puhlease. Get a clue.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Wondering....

do you think Ortiz was STILL doing steroids his last 4 years, age 37-40?   After being suspected and having to deny it, he STILL proceeded to "cheat"?

What difference does it make? We know he cheated, and it's documented. Bonds and Clemens never failed a test, but they aren't going to get in, and Ortiz is.

Of the three, too, he was the least impactful player.

So, the worst player, and the documented PED user is in, but the others are out because of suspicion of using PEDs.

The HOF is a fucking joke, and has been for quite a while, but this seals the deal and clearly shows that the writers are completely compromised. If you kiss their royal asses, you get in. That's how the writers measure "integrity".

This is the group that put Selig, who helped create, support, and govern the steroid era, but now they want to indict the players of that era, while ignoring Ortiz's positive testing?

Same as it ever was. Compromised and inconsistent and egotistical weasely writers. They create the story, and they control it. And that is the problem.

Not one of them ever played the game, but they know all the ins and outs of it.


Fuck the HOF voters.

Fuck Cooperstown, the museum, MLB.


And fuck anyone who would support their votes and their abject subjectivity.
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGfKfMmR-xU Roid Rage.

[Hamilton Samuels]

1st ballot HoFer

not many of those

joins the Hall among the elite of the elite

quite an honor for Big Papi.

And, as you know in your heart of hearts, and honor that is undeserved.

[bankshot1]

1st ballot HoFer

not many of those

joins the Hall among the elite of the elite

quite an honor for Big Papi.

And, as you know in your heart of hearts, and honor that is undeserved.

David Ortiz is wholly deserving the honor he was bestowed.

I could not be happier in my heart of hearts.

That you mocked him and his fans for close to 20 years and could not understand his prominence, dominance and almost larger than life presence in MLB, speaks to your biases and ignorance. If Ortiz didn't belong in the Hall, almost no one does.

Well maybe except Jamie Moyer.

HEH

That Ortiz joins a relatively small group of 1st ballot entrants to the Hall, recognized by the gate keepers as no-doubters, the best of the best, is wholly deserved.

Ortiz earned the honor.

Your recognition is not required.

[josh]

Wondering....

do you think Ortiz was STILL doing steroids his last 4 years, age 37-40?   After being suspected and having to deny it, he STILL proceeded to "cheat"?

What difference does it make? We know he cheated, and it's documented. Bonds and Clemens never failed a test, but they aren't going to get in, and Ortiz is.

No, we don't know Ortiz cheated and no matter how often you repeat it, we still won't.

We know his name was on a list and that not everybody on the list was guilty.

Barry Bonds did test positive, but prior to MLB's testing program.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3112982

As for Clemens, "We had DNA evidence in the Clemens case, with Clemens' DNA and an anabolic steroid within a needle that was used to inject him," said Novitzky.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christianred/2020/12/03/former-feds-say-barry-bonds-and-roger-clemens-steroid-evidence-indisputable

Ortiz? He, too, was tested prior to the MLB testing program. But there is a difference between his situation and Bond's. Bond's material was seized directly from Balco. the list Oeriz was listed on is no such proof:

However, Ortiz was exonerated in 2016 by Manfred, who said: "Even if your name was on that list (of 104) it's entirely possible that you were not a positive," adding that he felt it would be unfair for Hall-of-Fame voters to use that positive test against Ortiz.

Whether you are disingenuous or simply forgetful, the cases against Clemens and Bonds are far stronger than the case against Ortiz as far as steroids are concerned.

Bonds and Clemens belong in the Hall, IMO. I don't think it is even close. Rose, too. (Shoeless Joe, as well.)

But so does Ortiz.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ny-madden-hall-of-fame-20220126-frzjwhxhxjcffpjyu65bm4mlum-story.html

[Hamilton Samuels]

1st ballot HoFer

not many of those

joins the Hall among the elite of the elite

quite an honor for Big Papi.

And, as you know in your heart of hearts, and honor that is undeserved.

David Ortiz is wholly deserving the honor he was bestowed.

I could not be happier in my heart of hearts.

That you mocked him and his fans for close to 20 years and could not understand his prominence, dominance and almost larger than life presence in MLB, speaks to your biases and ignorance. If Ortiz didn't belong in the Hall, almost no one does.

Well maybe except Jamie Moyer.

HEH

That Ortiz joins a relatively small group of 1st ballot entrants to the Hall, recognized by the gate keepers as no-doubters, the best of the best, is wholly deserved.

Ortiz earned the honor.

Your recognition is not required.

And...as always, YOU missed the point.

If he's in, the others were locks.

Hall of Bullshit.

Figured you'd sign off on that.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Wondering....

do you think Ortiz was STILL doing steroids his last 4 years, age 37-40?   After being suspected and having to deny it, he STILL proceeded to "cheat"?

What difference does it make? We know he cheated, and it's documented. Bonds and Clemens never failed a test, but they aren't going to get in, and Ortiz is.

No, we don't know Ortiz cheated and no matter how often you repeat it, we still won't.

We know his name was on a list and that not everybody on the list was guilty.

Barry Bonds did test positive, but prior to MLB's testing program.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3112982

As for Clemens, "We had DNA evidence in the Clemens case, with Clemens' DNA and an anabolic steroid within a needle that was used to inject him," said Novitzky.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christianred/2020/12/03/former-feds-say-barry-bonds-and-roger-clemens-steroid-evidence-indisputable

Ortiz? He, too, was tested prior to the MLB testing program. But there is a difference between his situation and Bond's. Bond's material was seized directly from Balco. the list Oeriz was listed on is no such proof:

However, Ortiz was exonerated in 2016 by Manfred, who said: "Even if your name was on that list (of 104) it's entirely possible that you were not a positive," adding that he felt it would be unfair for Hall-of-Fame voters to use that positive test against Ortiz.

Whether you are disingenuous or simply forgetful, the cases against Clemens and Bonds are far stronger than the case against Ortiz as far as steroids are concerned.

Bonds and Clemens belong in the Hall, IMO. I don't think it is even close. Rose, too. (Shoeless Joe, as well.)

But so does Ortiz.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ny-madden-hall-of-fame-20220126-frzjwhxhxjcffpjyu65bm4mlum-story.html

If they're not in, he shouldn't be.

That's how many baseball fans and some players feel.

[josh]

Wondering....

do you think Ortiz was STILL doing steroids his last 4 years, age 37-40?   After being suspected and having to deny it, he STILL proceeded to "cheat"?

What difference does it make? We know he cheated, and it's documented. Bonds and Clemens never failed a test, but they aren't going to get in, and Ortiz is.

No, we don't know Ortiz cheated and no matter how often you repeat it, we still won't.

We know his name was on a list and that not everybody on the list was guilty.

Barry Bonds did test positive, but prior to MLB's testing program.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3112982

As for Clemens, "We had DNA evidence in the Clemens case, with Clemens' DNA and an anabolic steroid within a needle that was used to inject him," said Novitzky.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christianred/2020/12/03/former-feds-say-barry-bonds-and-roger-clemens-steroid-evidence-indisputable

Ortiz? He, too, was tested prior to the MLB testing program. But there is a difference between his situation and Bond's. Bond's material was seized directly from Balco. the list Oeriz was listed on is no such proof:

However, Ortiz was exonerated in 2016 by Manfred, who said: "Even if your name was on that list (of 104) it's entirely possible that you were not a positive," adding that he felt it would be unfair for Hall-of-Fame voters to use that positive test against Ortiz.

Whether you are disingenuous or simply forgetful, the cases against Clemens and Bonds are far stronger than the case against Ortiz as far as steroids are concerned.

Bonds and Clemens belong in the Hall, IMO. I don't think it is even close. Rose, too. (Shoeless Joe, as well.)

But so does Ortiz.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ny-madden-hall-of-fame-20220126-frzjwhxhxjcffpjyu65bm4mlum-story.html

If they're not in, he shouldn't be.

That's how many baseball fans and some players feel.

Yup.

Fans still don't get to vote on the HoF membership.

And given who they have selected for their All Star teams far too often, I think that may be a good thing.

Doesn't mean I think the Baseball Writers do a good job.

To me, for all that I understand the relativist argument of "If so-and-so got in, then my fave should, too!" I guess I think we have to take each vote on its own. "Do I think X is worthy? Do I think Y is worthy?" The limited number of votes makes it tough. So, too, the length of time on the ballot.

[bankshot1]

1st ballot HoFer

not many of those

joins the Hall among the elite of the elite

quite an honor for Big Papi.

And, as you know in your heart of hearts, and honor that is undeserved.

David Ortiz is wholly deserving the honor he was bestowed.

I could not be happier in my heart of hearts.

That you mocked him and his fans for close to 20 years and could not understand his prominence, dominance and almost larger than life presence in MLB, speaks to your biases and ignorance. If Ortiz didn't belong in the Hall, almost no one does.

Well maybe except Jamie Moyer.

HEH

That Ortiz joins a relatively small group of 1st ballot entrants to the Hall, recognized by the gate keepers as no-doubters, the best of the best, is wholly deserved.

Ortiz earned the honor.

Your recognition is not required.

And...as always, YOU missed the point.

If he's in, the others were locks.

Hall of Bullshit.

Figured you'd sign off on that.

Wrong again hammy.

The only point I addressed, was your point that Ortiz was not deserving of the honor.

His on-field body of work was recognized by the BBWAA as deserving of the honor, as many here have argued for years.

Whether Clemens or Bonds or Arod are deserving of the honor has nothing to do with Ortiz's body of work.

Its a bullshit argument.

Because X didn't get in you can't elect Y?

It doesn't work that way.

And it was wholly repudiated by the voters.

[kidcarter8]

I suppose you think it was just the change in ball parks that had Ortiz going from 11.6 homer average in 5 seasons in Minnesota to 41.6 homer average in first 5 seasons in Boston.


Stoppppp...

If you listen to the man himself - and if you know anything at all about baseball training and the development of competitive greatness, you would know it was not just medicinal help with Ortiz.


And....

if you really have to use numbers, try per 162 games at least if not per 500 plate appearances.

[kidcarter8]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/91442256?fbclid=IwAR1Iou6Nbz9lIjH5hXP94DO-G0e2jhoux08QwnIGZZMhrpQXG4cSH8NeTi0

[Hamilton Samuels]

Tainted. Like both the Sox and Astros championships.

And if Rob Manfred is your moral arbiter, you've got no case at all.

[Hairy Lime]

If you listen to the man himself - and if you know anything at all about baseball training and the development of competitive greatness, you would know it was not just medicinal help with Ortiz

So you are saying he also corked his bats?

[Hairy Lime]

I suppose you think it was just the change in ball parks that had Ortiz going from 11.6 homer average in 5 seasons in Minnesota to 41.6 homer average in first 5 seasons in Boston.


Stoppppp...

If you listen to the man himself - and if you know anything at all about baseball training and the development of competitive greatness, you would know it was not just medicinal help with Ortiz.


And....

if you really have to use numbers, try per 162 games at least if not per 500 plate appearances.

Ortiz had roughly the same number of games and at bats in his last season with the Twins as he did in his first season with Boston - 3 fewer games, about 40 fewer plate appearances - and had 50% more home runs and a .092 jump in slugging and an over .100 jump in OPS. He would also not be the first person to hit his stride at 27.