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Poll

ALDS - Rays vs. Astros (See Predictions for Twins vs. Yankees.)

Tampa Bay in 5
- 0 (0%)
Tampa Bay in 4
- 0 (0%)
Tampa Bay in 3
- 0 (0%)
Houston in 3
- 0 (0%)
Houston in 4
- 1 (100%)
Houston in 5
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 1

Voting closed: October 04, 2019, 11:37:25 PM


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Author Topic: American League  (Read 41113 times)

bankshot1

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Re: American League
« Reply #1185 on: December 13, 2018, 09:42:06 AM »

Adios Joe "Fight Club" Kelly

to LAD 3/25

Sox seem to have a couple of late inning jobs open.
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kiiidcarter8

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Re: American League
« Reply #1186 on: December 13, 2018, 11:07:03 AM »

Kimba wants 17 mil per

With the Familia signing I think he might get it.
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MrUtley3

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Re: American League
« Reply #1187 on: December 13, 2018, 01:00:21 PM »

The "election" of Harold Baines to the Hall of Fame spear-headed by by an ex-employer, and former GM who traded for him, and a committee of players he played with, puts a huge magnifying glass on the massive conflict of interest and potential cronyism of  this cherry-picking selection process. While some conflicts exists in the 500+ members/voters of the BBWAA, they are redcuced by the size of the voing base and several elements of diversification and they are relatively conflict-free body, as attested that not more than 6% of the voters thought Baines was a HoF player. There are only a handful of players who have been denied votes, and largely on the grounds they were massive assholes.

and voting for the HoF is not making news per se, again reduced by the fact a minimum of 75% of the 500+ voters are required to share a like opiinion, And its a largely neutral/bias free assessment of a ballplayer's qualifications relative to other ballplayers, and certainly much more neutral and less conflicted than a former owner might be.

Thank you, Joel Sherman. But the writers cannot call themselves journalists, when they create the news, which is exactly what they are doing when they hand out awards based on rules they created, as well.

Proof of that is how media outlets like the NYTimes do not allow their writers to participate in such voting.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 01:10:39 PM by MrUtley3 »
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MrUtley3

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Re: American League
« Reply #1188 on: December 13, 2018, 01:03:09 PM »

Yes the writers hated him.  But they voted him into the Hall-of-Fame.  Your suggestion was that the writers were using their love/hate of certain players, you used Allen and Murray as examples, to keep them out of the Hall.  That wasn't the case with Murray.

And I agree.  I don't think news, i.e., Hall of Fame selection, should be made by people who are supposed to report on the news.

You inferred what I didn't write, regarding Murray. Still, 15% of the writers didn't vote for him. Of that group, none were compelled to explain why.

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MrUtley3

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Re: American League
« Reply #1189 on: December 13, 2018, 01:04:51 PM »

Hell, Cy Young got only 76% of the vote, and he has an award named after him! Today's voters would have left them off the ballot.

We could hear it now:

"Sure, 511 wins is something. But he did it over 22 years. He's a compiler. And besides wins don't tell you how good a pitcher really is...."

I think Baines being picked by the committee was their view that longevity and high performance should be considered and rewarded.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 01:08:54 PM by MrUtley3 »
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bankshot1

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Re: American League
« Reply #1190 on: December 13, 2018, 01:10:20 PM »

The "election" of Harold Baines to the Hall of Fame spear-headed by by an ex-employer, and former GM who traded for him, and a committee of players he played with, puts a huge magnifying glass on the massive conflict of interest and potential cronyism of  this cherry-picking selection process. While some conflicts exists in the 500+ members/voters of the BBWAA, they are redcuced by the size of the voing base and several elements of diversification and they are relatively conflict-free body, as attested that not more than 6% of the voters thought Baines was a HoF player. There are only a handful of players who have been denied votes, and largely on the grounds they were massive assholes.

and voting for the HoF is not making news per se, again reduced by the fact a minimum of 75% of the 500+ voters are required to share a like opiinion, And its a largely neutral/bias free assessment of a ballplayer's qualifications relative to other ballplayers, and certainly much more neutral and less conflicted than a former owner might be.

Thank you, Joel Sherman. But the writers cannot call themselves journalists, when they create the news.

They're reporters who write about baseball.

They are giving their opinion on the subject they are probably 1) more qualified AND 2) less conflicted

than any other singular population to give an opinion.

And given the tiny handful of errors, real and imagined, they may have made as a group, over the past 80 years (whatever) its hard to believe any other group would do as good and unbiased a job.

Given that it takes at least 375 like opinions (75% of 500) on the same player, the "make the news" argument is just not very well thought out position.



 
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MrUtley3

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Re: American League
« Reply #1191 on: December 13, 2018, 01:11:50 PM »

The "election" of Harold Baines to the Hall of Fame spear-headed by by an ex-employer, and former GM who traded for him, and a committee of players he played with, puts a huge magnifying glass on the massive conflict of interest and potential cronyism of  this cherry-picking selection process. While some conflicts exists in the 500+ members/voters of the BBWAA, they are redcuced by the size of the voing base and several elements of diversification and they are relatively conflict-free body, as attested that not more than 6% of the voters thought Baines was a HoF player. There are only a handful of players who have been denied votes, and largely on the grounds they were massive assholes.

and voting for the HoF is not making news per se, again reduced by the fact a minimum of 75% of the 500+ voters are required to share a like opiinion, And its a largely neutral/bias free assessment of a ballplayer's qualifications relative to other ballplayers, and certainly much more neutral and less conflicted than a former owner might be.

Thank you, Joel Sherman. But the writers cannot call themselves journalists, when they create the news.

They're reporters who write about baseball.

They are giving their opinion on the subject they are probably 1) more qualified AND 2) less conflicted

than any other singular population to give an opinion.

And given a the tiny handful of errors, real and imagined, they may have made as a group, its hard to believe any other group would do as good and unbiased a job.

Given that it takes at least 375 like opinions (75% of 500) on the same player, the "make the news" argument is just not very well thought out position.

I adjusted my post above. And clarified my argument, demonstrating how you are indeed, wrong.
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bankshot1

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Re: American League
« Reply #1192 on: December 13, 2018, 01:20:35 PM »

The "election" of Harold Baines to the Hall of Fame spear-headed by by an ex-employer, and former GM who traded for him, and a committee of players he played with, puts a huge magnifying glass on the massive conflict of interest and potential cronyism of  this cherry-picking selection process. While some conflicts exists in the 500+ members/voters of the BBWAA, they are redcuced by the size of the voing base and several elements of diversification and they are relatively conflict-free body, as attested that not more than 6% of the voters thought Baines was a HoF player. There are only a handful of players who have been denied votes, and largely on the grounds they were massive assholes.

and voting for the HoF is not making news per se, again reduced by the fact a minimum of 75% of the 500+ voters are required to share a like opiinion, And its a largely neutral/bias free assessment of a ballplayer's qualifications relative to other ballplayers, and certainly much more neutral and less conflicted than a former owner might be.

Thank you, Joel Sherman. But the writers cannot call themselves journalists, when they create the news.

They're reporters who write about baseball.

They are giving their opinion on the subject they are probably 1) more qualified AND 2) less conflicted

than any other singular population to give an opinion.

And given a the tiny handful of errors, real and imagined, they may have made as a group, its hard to believe any other group would do as good and unbiased a job.

Given that it takes at least 375 like opinions (75% of 500) on the same player, the "make the news" argument is just not very well thought out position.

I adjusted my post above. And clarified my argument, demonstrating how you are indeed, wrong.

We disagree.

Big surprise.

Writers as a diverse population are more objective and less conflicted than owners, managers, past teamamates.

Case in point Jerry Reinsdorf, and Tony LaRussa championed and persuaded Baines-era players to elect Baines.

Only 6% of the BBWAA writers/voters who watched him play thought thought him a good candidate.

There was no Baines conspiracy to kee[ Baines out, No one really thought he was a compelling HoF player.

Listening to most callers/pundits for the past couple of days, Baines election is getting killed.

the consensus: Nice guy, good player but he doesn't belong in the Hof.

And troll the only thing you clarified was you were wrong again.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 01:23:06 PM by bankshot1 »
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kiiidcarter8

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Re: American League
« Reply #1193 on: December 13, 2018, 01:32:46 PM »

Still on Baines?

I liked LaRussa's answer on AL Oliver

Russo:  "Is Baines better than Oliver"?

LaRissa:  "Oliver wasn't better than Baines"

Joe Beningo's silliness appears on FAN today, as he says, "if Baines is in Staub is in"

LaRussa's stance is strengthened vs Russo if you listen to the part re:  Alan Trammel.

(Buckner also mention on Evan and Joe's show.  But statistically, like Oliver and Staub Billy Buck was behind Harold.)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 02:33:18 PM by kiiidcarter8 »
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Yankguy1

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Re: American League
« Reply #1194 on: December 13, 2018, 01:54:58 PM »

Baines selection is going to lead to never-ending "whataboutism". 
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bankshot1

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Re: American League
« Reply #1195 on: December 13, 2018, 02:20:40 PM »

Baines selection is going to lead to never-ending "whataboutism".

you are probably right yank. we aee destined for that "Rabbit" hole.
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Yankguy1

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Re: American League
« Reply #1196 on: December 13, 2018, 02:49:02 PM »

Paul O'Neill!!!!
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kiiidcarter8

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Re: American League
« Reply #1197 on: December 13, 2018, 03:00:48 PM »

Another guy way short
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MrUtley3

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Re: American League
« Reply #1198 on: December 13, 2018, 03:19:36 PM »

The "election" of Harold Baines to the Hall of Fame spear-headed by by an ex-employer, and former GM who traded for him, and a committee of players he played with, puts a huge magnifying glass on the massive conflict of interest and potential cronyism of  this cherry-picking selection process. While some conflicts exists in the 500+ members/voters of the BBWAA, they are redcuced by the size of the voing base and several elements of diversification and they are relatively conflict-free body, as attested that not more than 6% of the voters thought Baines was a HoF player. There are only a handful of players who have been denied votes, and largely on the grounds they were massive assholes.

and voting for the HoF is not making news per se, again reduced by the fact a minimum of 75% of the 500+ voters are required to share a like opiinion, And its a largely neutral/bias free assessment of a ballplayer's qualifications relative to other ballplayers, and certainly much more neutral and less conflicted than a former owner might be.

Thank you, Joel Sherman. But the writers cannot call themselves journalists, when they create the news.

They're reporters who write about baseball.

They are giving their opinion on the subject they are probably 1) more qualified AND 2) less conflicted

than any other singular population to give an opinion.

And given a the tiny handful of errors, real and imagined, they may have made as a group, its hard to believe any other group would do as good and unbiased a job.

Given that it takes at least 375 like opinions (75% of 500) on the same player, the "make the news" argument is just not very well thought out position.

I adjusted my post above. And clarified my argument, demonstrating how you are indeed, wrong.

We disagree.

Big surprise.

Writers as a diverse population are more objective and less conflicted than owners, managers, past teamamates.

Case in point Jerry Reinsdorf, and Tony LaRussa championed and persuaded Baines-era players to elect Baines.

Only 6% of the BBWAA writers/voters who watched him play thought thought him a good candidate.

There was no Baines conspiracy to kee[ Baines out, No one really thought he was a compelling HoF player.

Listening to most callers/pundits for the past couple of days, Baines election is getting killed.

the consensus: Nice guy, good player but he doesn't belong in the Hof.

And troll the only thing you clarified was you were wrong again.

There you go again, with insults. You do that whenever you know you're either wrong, or have overstated your case. In this case, you've done both.

I've already proved why it's wrong for writers to create the news.

 But here's more. They should not be involved in award giving.

The writers are impacting what players earn., Both on and off the field.

Can you "conflict on interest"?

Don't just take my word for it.

Others recognize this wrong you are too willing to defend: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/heres-a-vote-for-getting-sports-writers-out-of-the-balloting-process/2017/01/04/8cd4a25c-d285-11e6-9cb0-54ab630851e8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f5cdd1943d65

Thanks for playing, but you lost another one.

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Yankguy1

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Re: American League
« Reply #1199 on: December 13, 2018, 03:59:31 PM »

Another guy way short
If you say so.   
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