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Russia will gain eastern Ukraine territories and hold them, as it has Crimea

5 (45.5%)

Russia will temporarily gain eastern Ukraine territories before being forced out of them

2 (18.2%)

Efforts to confront the Russian forces and get them out of Ukraine will lead to Putin's escalating and attacking NATO countries directly with missiles or other destructive measures

0 (0%)

The NATO/World response will be so mild that Putin will go ahead and take the rest of Ukraine

3 (27.3%)

Today Ukraine, tomorrow Moldova and who knows where else

1 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 01, 2022, 01:18:43 PM

[Espnthree]

As to the Cluster Bombs

As to the Cluster Bombs
The NY Times weighs in:

With Ukraine using up ordinary artillery shells at a huge rate (the United States alone has sent more than two million rounds to Ukraine), the cluster munitions, of which the United States has a bountiful supply, could give Ukrainian forces an advantage in prying the Russians from their trenches and fortifications along the 620milelong front. Besides, Russia has been using its own cluster munitions, as has Ukraine, from the outset of the war, and Ukrainian  leaders have been urgently asking for more.

This is a flawed and troubling logic. In the face of the widespread global condemnation of cluster munitions and the danger they pose to civilians long after the fighting is over, this is not a weapon that a nation with the power and influence of the United States should be spreading.

Defending the decision to supply the weapons to Ukraine, Biden national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, argued that Ukraine would not be using the munitions in a foreign land but on its own territory.
 These are their citizens they protecting, and they are motivated to use any weapon system they have in a way that minimizes the risk to these citizens?

And we thought only Joe  was senile.
 

[facilitatorn]

Wow, red. You have found another topic in which you can apply neither context or perspective. That is a huge surprise.

[LarryB!]

As to the Cluster Bombs

As to the Cluster Bombs
The NY Times weighs in:

With Ukraine using up ordinary artillery shells at a huge rate (the United States alone has sent more than two million rounds to Ukraine), the cluster munitions, of which the United States has a bountiful supply, could give Ukrainian forces an advantage in prying the Russians from their trenches and fortifications along the 620milelong front. Besides, Russia has been using its own cluster munitions, as has Ukraine, from the outset of the war, and Ukrainian  leaders have been urgently asking for more.

This is a flawed and troubling logic. In the face of the widespread global condemnation of cluster munitions and the danger they pose to civilians long after the fighting is over, this is not a weapon that a nation with the power and influence of the United States should be spreading.

Defending the decision to supply the weapons to Ukraine, Biden national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, argued that Ukraine would not be using the munitions in a foreign land but on its own territory.
 These are their citizens they protecting, and they are motivated to use any weapon system they have in a way that minimizes the risk to these citizens?

And we thought only Joe  was senile.

This is a flawed and troubling logic. In the face of the widespread global condemnation of cluster munitions and the danger they pose to civilians long after the fighting is over, this is not a weapon that a nation with the power and influence of the United States should be spreading.


The Ukrainian countryside is so littered with unexplored bomblets dropped by Russians the Ukrainians are going to have to mount a gigantic project to de-mine the nation anyway.

Logic, thine embrace eludes Red.

[LarryB!]

YOU FIGHT TO WIN THE WAR! HELLO? YOU FIGHT TO WIN THE WAR

[Oilcandide]

Any thoughts on the proposed sending of cluster bombs to Ukraine?

Yeah.

Ukraine is fighting on its own territory and will be more likely to protect its citizen as opposed to Russian indiscriminate destruction and killing.

If Ukraine is going to advance the offensive they need to use the ammo that increase force projection, cluster weapons.

The folks lamenting the possibility of civilians being injured or maimed by the unexploded bomblets ignore the fact the Ukrainian countryside is already littered with the remains of Russian cluster weapons which means when the hostilities are done Ukraine is going to have to mount a mammoth de-mining program, anyway.

Good points.  I would hope Uke uses them judiciously.  The thing to avoid is fertile crop fields that won't be usable for years or decades (as in parts of northern France).  Ukraine's rebuild economy will depend on its arable land among other things.

[Oilcandide]

Logic, thine embrace eludes Red.

Well, he is now quoting the radical far-Left NY Times, so that's something.  😏

[facilitatorn]

Someone else linked to it. He just forwards what he is fed.

I am not sure how much actual use anyone is getting out of that idiot.

[facilitatorn]

The Russian army, like many places in the United States under republican administration, is increasingly defined solely by its morgue trucks.

[bambu.]

JAPAN:

Protesters ranting about NATO, objecting to their Prime Minister's presence at the NATO summit.
"No NATO in Asia, no war".
What a joke., given Japan's evil, butchering, torturing, bombing past.

The QUAD...Japan, India, Australia, US...is not a defence pact...more like a friendship group.

When (Xi said "by force if necessary") China invades Taiwan, guess who could be next...Japan.
If I were Japan I'd be getting into NATO at the first opportunity.
Australia should do the same, force Europe to defend Australia...least Europe should do, given the number of Australians who died or were maimed for life defending them from Germany...twice.

[facilitatorn]

If you keep with leaders like Albo instead of losers like Scummo, the civilized world may one day return your calls.

[Hairy Lime]

If I were Japan I'd be getting into NATO at the first opportunity.
Australia should do the same, force Europe to defend Australia...l

So what part of "North Atlantic" are you having trouble with?

[facilitatorn]

North Atlantic is like Ireland, less a real place and more a state of mind.

[facilitatorn]

http://www.salon.com/2023/07/15/nato-summit-was-a-success-even-without-ukraines-entrance-european-unity-strikes-a-blow-to-putin/

[bambu.]

If I were Japan I'd be getting into NATO at the first opportunity.
Australia should do the same, force Europe to defend Australia...l

So what part of "North Atlantic" are you having trouble with?

Japan and Australia were at the NATO summit.
Why?
Seems NATO could be becoming my COUSAN idea...Coalition Of US Aligned Nations.

[facilitatorn]

Sounds like another colonial outpost is trying to get itself a vote.

It worked well for Hawaii, not so well for Puerto Rico or Guam.

How are your pineapples?