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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 184273 times)

bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9030 on: December 02, 2019, 02:57:45 AM »

I think we were much more likely to take Shai than DiVincenzo who went 17th.  The week before the draft, Shai was getting significant buzz, moving from around 15 into our range (he went #11).  DiVi had nice combine #'s, but I don't recall that or anything vaulting him in or near the Top 10.

I think it was mostly between the Bridges and Knox.
Miles Bridges seems to be playing fairy well in CHA, but I haven't seen them.  Mikal hasn't gotten going in PHX, and has been pushed aside by Uber-Killer. 

Mikal was the older Villanova Bridges.
Miles the defensive SF.  A hoped-for 3&D wing.
Both just 6'6"
Knox 2 years young than Miles and 3 years than Mikal.

I think Knox was a good pick.  He has better physical tools and higher upside than the Bridges.  But he's inexperienced and was known to need patience.  I didn't know he would be so iffy on D, but that's often true of young guys, and he has made an effort to improve this year.  Knox could benefit from playing with a good PG with a stable roster.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 03:19:58 AM by bodiddley »
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9031 on: December 02, 2019, 03:16:53 AM »

So a question: How much would you give up for Dinwiddie?  A 6'6" penetrating scoring PG who seems to have leadership qualities. 

Nets have Kyrie and next year KD who will dominate the ball.
 Dinwiddie's role is much the same as Kyrie's.  Their weak spot is PF, but that's where KD slots in next year.  They could use another 3-point shooter and a wing.

Randle or Morris would help them this year, but probably not long-term fits after KD returns.   

I'd do Morris and Smith Jr/Elf for Dinwiddie and Kurucs?  I didn't look at the numbers, but that can always be smoothed out.  If the Nets aren't interested would you include Knox to get it done?

The hope is that Dimwillie is a longterm PG solution for NYK, and can work with Randle and RJB and lob to Mitch.  And help stabilize our franchise.

Dinwiddie - RJB - Knox - Randle - Taj
(assuming Knox isn't in the deal)
Smith/Elf - Trier/Dot - Portis - Mitch
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 03:21:15 AM by bodiddley »
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9032 on: December 02, 2019, 03:22:38 AM »

Really Franc would fit well there, as a guy who plays D and doesn't need the ball.  Having a defender next to Kyrie is always a good idea.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9033 on: December 02, 2019, 03:26:24 AM »

Knox and others could benefit from learning the full science of man-help D with both switching and zone concepts and elements which do not ever come before the basics of sticking with, shutting out, wearing out, frustrating, and shutting down your fucking man. Switching is something you should be prepared to do, not looking to do. The sweet spot is where you are denying and passing angle to your man while stopping him from improving his position and shrinking the court for the offense.

The amount of really basic shit we donít even try to do which every decent team does is mind blowing, truly staggering, and beyond explanation.

Yet we still almost win games.

We may be sprinting to the lead in the tank-a-thon despite the roster not because of it.

Perhaps the plan is to install JV level man to man or better next year when we have that extra Dallas pick waiting. Till then perhaps itís frowned upon like moving off the ball to loosen up the defense before hoisting or posting.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9034 on: December 02, 2019, 03:38:10 AM »

Knox often plays half a step too far off a perimeter guy with the ball, so guys can just shoot 3's over him.  He's too worried about the drive.  It all looks okay, as Knox is reasonably close, and his close out looks respectable.  But it's always too late, as he gives his man a bit too much room to start.

Away from the ball and on rebounds, Knox often forgets to keep track of his man.  Guys cut back door or zoom past him for boards.  This can be remedied with film and drilling.
I do like how he now follows his man and gets a decent amount of from-behind blocks.  Learning to use his length and athleticism.
I wish he'd apply that to layups on O too.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9035 on: December 02, 2019, 08:22:25 AM »

Knox draft -

Divincenzo was a trade down move I recommended at the time.

Knox obviously has the size/length over the winner Dante -

Knicks have gone with athletes that they feel they can teach to play.  Mitch's missing college has become blatantly obvious, for instance, though his freakish athleticism sometimes pays a dividend.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 08:24:59 AM by kiidcarter8 »
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9036 on: December 02, 2019, 09:59:20 AM »

Lamar Peters with his James Harden act:

https://gleague.nba.com/player/lamar-peters/

41% from 3.
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Pharoah

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9037 on: December 02, 2019, 12:32:32 PM »

Last evening, the Knicks gave their fanbase a bit of deja vu, losing a second half lead and the game to Boston 104-113. Scott Perry and Steve Mills showed up ten games back to say they wanted improvement and the Knicks did offer a bit of improvement from being blown out frequently to playing more competitive basketball before giving up runs late. They're still losing though and it's hard to feel any optimism when the small improvements they've made haven't meant any more victories...but as someone who watches every game to try and let y'all know how things are trending, I've got to admit. Look no further than Julius Randle sharing the rock more often early in games or the steady settling in of DSJ and Dot as they get their form back. None of this is enough to turn a bad team into a playoff team, but it's at least kept the product watchable. More importantly, if these trends can continue we might actually start seeing the skeleton of a core forming. It's been rough, but let's see what direction we're moving in.

Frank: Frank Ntilikina started out with some promising aggression, missing a lay-up but quickly following up with a three point make. But he never quite seemed right and after his first trip to the bench, he went to the locker room. It turns out the French Prince was nursing a back injury, to go with the groin soreness that we've been seeing on injury reports. So Frank played just 7 minutes before shutting it down and the Knicks were left without their only consistently reliable PG of the season...but DSJ stepped up!

RJ: It's a testament to his upside that RJ Barrett can make a 4/13 performance a positive impact, quality contribution anyway. Barrett pulled this off by constantly attacking and getting to the free throw line. So over 35 minutes, the rookie pumped in 16 points, 7 boards, a steal and block on 4/13 from the field, 0/2 from three but also 8/13 from the free throw line. And yes, the free throw shooting is still worrisome, but his ability to get there is really promising regardless.

Barrett getting into the teeth of a defense creates openings for everyone. His misses inside are offensive rebound opportunities because so many defenders are out of place, collapsing to help stop a 19 year old rookie with crazy strength for his age. Barrett also locked in defensively on multiple occasions and contributed seven boards including some important ones. The guards gave up a lot of long offensive boards, RJ was the one perimeter guy really getting after those necessary rebounds.

Knox: In a move that's so Fizdale, Kevin Knox went from a DNP straight into the starting line-up to cover for Marcus Morris. This was a chance for the kid to start in his preferred position right after being sent a message from his coach about effort. Then, with an early weak side rotation, Young Kev blocked Kemba Walker and set a precedent for himself the rest of the way. Let's just say that Fizdale benched Kevin Knox and the kid responded well.

Knox posted 11 points, 5 boards and 2 blocks over a 22 minute run that included 2/6 from three. The former lottery pick was an immediate source for better spacing for the starters, operating almost exclusively behind the three point line whereas Morris tends to float into similar places that Randle, Taj, Portis and Mitch like to occupy. The kid attacked off the dribble some and took three's when he had space, a callback to how he started the season. But the more important standout was Kevin's defense. Don't get me wrong, he was far from perfect but Knox was locked in and focused. Outside of some early foul trouble that you might expect from a player turning up his effort, Kevin Knox turned in his best defensive effort in weeks!

Randle: I know that Julius Randle has become a bit of a fanbase whipping boy, but the amount that his approach has changed (especially early in games) is impressive. Randle has started the last three or four games by looking to get others going and let the offense come to him. But against the Celtics, facing the much smaller Marcus Smart, Julius Randle had every excuse to attack and chose not to. Instead, Randle spotted double teams and moved the ball until he could receive it with closer position to the rim. The result was one of his best games of the season.

Randle put up 26 points, 2 assist to 4 TO's and 5 rebounds on 8/16 from the field, 0/5 from three and 10/13 from the free throw line. The 25 year old has had more impressive stat lines, but even with 4 TO's, this was a more under control Julius Randle. He had a couple of TO's that came trying to draw defenders in and kick it out but his handle failed him and the passes didn't connect. Still, that's a far cry from just getting stripped on multiple forays into the paint.

More importantly, like Knox, Randle turned in an improved defensive effort. Also, just like Knox, that doesn't mean he was particularly good but Randle showed much more effort and had moments where his presence shined as an actual positive rather than a detriment to the team on defense. Randle still forced things late in the game when the team floundered and his defense is still a long way from being truly acceptable. But he's taken a nice stride in the right direction from a playstyle mindset.

Taj: I could copy and past most Taj performance descriptions. He's a steady role player and needed veteran presence. In this one he posted 4 points, 3 boards and 4 steals on 2/6 from the field in 20 minutes. It was a solid performance and he's a rare good fit for a mostly mismatched roster.

DSJ: In the absence of Frank Ntilikina or any other PG option, Dennis Smith Jr took a bit of time to find his rhythm but when he did...can I just tell everyone that this is why I keep saying he's worth patience? Smith became the engine of a transition offense for a while there. He'd sometimes beat his whole team down court, run through the paint and then pick out a trailer with a full head of steam for the rim. There were acrobatic finishes at times and at others Smith shot the ball well enough to respect it. We'll get into the negative aspects later, but for a nice chunk of game Dennis Smith Jr made the game easier for everyone on offense.

DSJ put up 17 points, 7 assists to 2 TO's and added a pair of blocks to the mix (a nice recovery block on Kemba Walker really stood out). The assist to turnover ratio wasn't the only place where Smith was highly efficient. The third year PG was 6/11 from the field and 2/3 from three point land even calling for the rock when he had space in the corner. His one downside was 3/6 from the free throw line aka the Knicks cursed FT shooting has him in its grips as well. But beyond the offense, Smith also put in a better defensive effort for most of the night. Just like Knox and Randle before him it wasn't perfect though...

So two issues were kinda glaring for Smith. One is that the defense is pretty obviously designed around Frank's flexibility. That's because Smith was continually the victim of being switched onto bigger guys like Tatum and even Williams at one point. He couldn't stop those guys on drives, jumpers or anything else...it was just a mismatch. The other issue is that he's not in the right shape to keep up his energy for 38 minutes. The kid ran out of steam late and when things tightened up, we were back to the familiar place of Randle in isolation with the entire defense shading him. But make no mistakes, this was a performance to build on especially since he's barely gotten his legs under him.

Dot: Damyean Dotson has had some weaker performances recently, but yesterday he showed his value to the fullest. Dot posted 10 points, 3 assists, 4 boards, 1 steal and 1 block over a 32 minute run. He was efficient as well, shooting 4/6 from the field and 2/4 from three while only turning over the rock once. Dot wasn't giving away possessions. That's important to note because this wasn't a floating game where Dotson roamed outside and just took open looks. The third year player attacked off the dribble a number of times and got good results.

The three ball is the most promising aspect of the game though. Dot has been looking for his jumper all season but in this one, he even took a step back three that was somewhat contested for a make. He looked closer to the Dot of last year, where too much space got punished. This is Dotson, the guy who can give you a little bit of everything but shouldn't be your best guy at any one thing. His is making secondary contributions across the board.

Wayne: Personally, I appreciate the spacing that the Dot and Wayne Ellington combination brings to the floor. They come off of the bench and immediately give everyone room to operate. But I also appreciate that Ellington is best utilized for 15 minutes a night unless he catches fire at some point. This game was a sweet spot of 13 minutes played, 1/2 shooting and a statline of 2 points, 3 boards and 1 assist to 1 TO. It was a solid contribution in limited time but one without forced three pointers and with a better effort to contribute in other areas.

Portis: In a similar manner to Ellington, I think of Bobby Portis as good at a certain amount of time and brutal at anything above it. The big man flirted with disaster based mainly on the fact that he simply could not make the C's pay for leaving him open. On most nights, Bobby would knock down the open three pointers he got but in this one that three ball held him back. His performance wasn't bad without it, but was missing a bit of bite. So Bobby posted 9 points and 6 boards off of 3/8 from the field and 1/4 from three in 21 minutes.

Playing BP more than that 21 minutes could have hurt as his defense is flawed and he's always a risk to try a little too much. But inside of that span, we got nothing really forced and just a solid contribution of rebounds and points. Not bad.

Mitch: This game seemed like more of a struggle for Mitchell Robinson than even his numbers suggest. He wasn't strong enough to keep up with Enes Kanter and that led to early fouls. Then he just didn't quite get his feet under him the rest of the way but was still solid. So Mitch put up 6 points, 5 boards and 2 TO's in a 20 minute span with yet another 6 fouls on his season. To be fair though, the last foul was an intentional one that was needed to stop the clock.

We still got a flash of spectacular as Mitch helped force a TO, outran everybody and received an alley-oop pass from behind himself to finish on a dunk. His athleticism flies off the screen at times, but he hasn't shown it as often or as comfortably since he rolled his ankle a while back. His lack of strength to deal with bigger Centers continues to shine as the second biggest issue holding him back with the fouling obviously as first. Even his timing has been a bit off, it's rare to see him play so long and pick up zero blocks. The foul trouble has gotten the lion's share of attention but I think there's a bit more going on. There are little things holding him back. Timing, health and chemistry can all come together still and I think his foul woes will be reduced a bit when they do.

Fiz: Well, I give David Fizdale a ton of crap and I am still worried about the slow development of the youth...but the youth is showing signs of stepping forward. Frank's been a revelation, Barrett was good from day one, but Knox responded to a challenge and DSJ was ready for a bigger load because he kept getting chances through struggles. Even Randle and Morris have stepped back from forcing the ball so much in recent efforts. The team really did take a few small steps forward in the games since the infamous press conference. It's just harder to see because the schedule got tougher and the Knicks still lost games.

I wanted to start off on a nice note, because I'm not gonna lie about the fact that Fizdale got outcoached pretty blatantly in the fourth quarter. The C's practically dared Randle to attack his defenders who were almost exclusively guards, but then they had well timed double teams completely break Randle's ability to produce. The C's came out of a Fizdale time out, forced an immediate turnover and continued on a massive run to close out the game. Tommy Dee mentioned on the KnicksfanTV post game show that in the prior two games, the C's outscored the Knicks coming out of Timeouts by 14 to 0. I doubt that improved much after yesterday.

That said, there was one clever move from Fiz. In the third quarter, Damyean Dotson came in for what looked like RJ. But with undersized Carsen Edwards coming into the game and no back-up PG's, Fiz pulled DSJ instead for a much needed breather. This meant below 6 foot Edwards had to try and guard RJ Barrett, an impossible challenge. So considering Fizdale was down two starters and up against a playoff team, I think he performed commendably in this one. He can't shoot free throws for these guys and this is a second game where the difference in missed FT's and the end result equals the difference between a win and a loss.

A philosophical shift: Here's one bit I want to add. The Knicks are close enough to the playoffs not to give up, but I think the best direction would be to hand the keys to the kids ASAP (aka December 15th via a trade or two). This team isn't ready to pull out tough wins whether the vets play or not. The most positive games happen when the kids are comfortable enough to take on a bigger role. Let's press our luck since we don't have any regardless. Knox as a starter was a much better player, DSJ with time and touches found rhythm, Frank saw the benefits of more demand from the offense early on as well.

This season has been ugly, but it'd be an easier pill to swallow if the kids were getting even more opportunities to shine. That's not just asking for minutes but for the ball in their hands. Will it lead to ugly TO's like Dot's late against the C's or Frank's the night before? Yes! But I can live with those TO's much more than Randle dribbling off his own leg or Ellington shooting before he ever sets his feet.
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9038 on: December 02, 2019, 12:51:04 PM »

I say Yes to Spencer D.  Love to have him.
But i also say No to making a deal with Brooklyn.
Don't like it.
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lesterluv

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9039 on: December 02, 2019, 12:53:19 PM »

...but as someone who watches every game to try and let y'all know how things are trending, I've got to admit. Look no further than Julius Randle sharing the rock more often early in games or the steady settling in of DSJ and Dot as they get their form back. None of this is enough to turn a bad team into a playoff team, but it's at least kept the product watchable. More importantly, if these trends can continue we might actually start seeing the skeleton of a core forming. It's been rough, but let's see what direction we're moving in...........etc

That's what I'm saying! It's not all doom & gloom, though not quite ZoomZoom! Clear out a little room! Let the youth bloom!
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9040 on: December 02, 2019, 12:59:44 PM »

Pharoah - love ya dude - but Barrett wasn't good yesterday.

And "has been good from day one" is just a silly comment.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9041 on: December 02, 2019, 01:08:48 PM »

R J Barrett

15+ game score just 1 time in last 15 (after 2 of first 4)

.400 or less fg shooting in 11 of 19 games

.500 or less from line 8 times in 19 games.

Smith/Ellington/Morris/Randle/Gibson
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9042 on: December 02, 2019, 01:10:55 PM »

Where the hell was Taj last night, at 95-all?  This guy should be closing games.

And Alan Hahn gotta shut up - saying Randle cant be the late game scorer for this team.  I gave the stat.  58% in clutch this year.
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chipstern

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BoD
« Reply #9043 on: December 02, 2019, 03:05:44 PM »

Why in God's name would the Nyets contemplate trading SD to the Knicks, let alone to ANYONE?

He is a fixture, a fundamental cog in their machine. 

With Kyrie being as fragile as he is, force of nature when healthy though he is, SD's game and versatility as a facilitator and scorer takes on more import. 
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9044 on: December 02, 2019, 03:28:40 PM »

Dinwiddie is a 42/32 shooter

Career 41/32
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