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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[lesterluv]

lol, Bo, your thoughts and viewpoints are so far from those of the NBA players it's laughable, and btw, I clearly have no monopoly on assholedom as your head is like really, really, really far up your own!


**** I'm especially sure the players just adopted the basic viewpoint that they are not the league

[bodiddley]

Jordan and Doc Rivers made the same case I did that NBA players have the biggest platform while they are playing.  Chris Paul (and no doubt the owners) made sure the players understood the financial costs, including a potential large hit next season (even a threat to the CBA).  CJ McCollum and Jaylen Brown were concerned that players would end the season, disperse and most would just return home, wouldn't work for change and their voices disappear.  The NBA players ultimately agreed it was best to take concerted action backed by NBA resources.   Everyone agreed Les is an asshole.
All of which I argued in advocating for the season to continue.
Nearly all of that can be found in this good longish article.

[bodiddley]

It's good to see a young guy like Jaylen Brown at 22 become a leading voice.  Usually in the NBPA the vets have the clout and control the agenda.  The guys on rook contracts are the future of the NBA and need to be involved, and need a voice.  Kudos to Brown for stepping up.

Otherwise this is a very good and interesting example of how it helps to have a billionaire and major corporation backing up your position.  When the Bucks were in the lockerroom deciding not to play:

Inside the locker room, Bucks players were on a Zoom call with Wisconsin lieutenant governor Mandela Barnes and attorney general Josh Kaul, which had been facilitated by team owner Marc Lasry and senior vice president Alex Lasry.

Individually or even as a group the Bucks players would be extremely unlikely to get a conference call with the Lt. Gov and AG, let alone at a moment's notice (perhaps Giannis could, but he's not an American citizen).  The Bucks players were able to discuss with two of the state's top leaders, for over an hour, ways in which they could enact change in WI.  With part of the focus on the police reform bill the Guv is pushing and the GOP legislature is blocking, which likely most of the players were not aware of.  And now there is a channel open between the Bucks players, Bucks ownership and the top state leaders of WI.

The clout and influence and connections of NBA owners can be beneficial to the players in effecting change.  If say the Knix players wanted to have a discussion with Jared Kushner, I'm pretty sure Dolan could arrange that.  It could even be worthwhile.  Weird but perhaps worthwhile.  Reportedly, Jared is going to reach out to LeBron James, and I'd love to hear that discussion.  Perhaps LeBJ should insist it be a public discussion anybody can patch into and listen to (or maybe after 30 mins of private chat).

[NeedsAdjustments]

I wonder if lester has rethought his previous position that Obama was no better or worse than his predecessors.

[NeedsAdjustments]

Any health updates on The Biz?

Hoping for the best.  Always my favorite poster here.  Even if he was totally wrong on the KP trade (like most of the other posters here

[bodiddley]

Just 56.  Hope he's doing alright.  Should have a couple more decades to go.
Chip might be in contact or able to get an update. 

I didn't understand how meekly Knick fans accepted losing KZ.  I thought it would be pitchforks and torches on 7th Ave and a crisis for Dolan.  Alas ...

[NeedsAdjustments]

I didn't understand how meekly Knick fans accepted losing KZ. 

Or how ok they were with getting so little for him.

I guess Steve Mills was shown the door, but only after we whiffed on Kevin Durant which looking back now was just a pipe-dream that any executive worth his salt should have known was so.

[bodiddley]

Just glancing at Knick stats, best 3-Pt shooter by far was MaMo who we jettisoned.  Next was Dotson who shot a league average 36%, pretty good for a young guy without much PG help.   

After that Portis and Trier were average at 35.8%.  Ellington 35%.
Trier gone, the other tow likely as well.

Which, after Dotson, would leave Knox (32.7%) as our 2nd best 3PT shooter.
Bullock could improve on his 33.3% as it was a rough year for him for a variety of reasons.  Then it's all our guards coming in at 32% (Franc, RJB) or lower (Jr. Smith, Elf) and all our Bigs in the 20+% range (Randle, Taj, Hark, Mitch).

Knix desperately need shooting.  Have to take a long look at drafting Vassell.

[bodiddley]

2019-01-31   

Knicks Received:   
• Dennis Smith Jr.
• DeAndre Jordan
• Wesley Matthews
• first round pick (two years after Mavericks send first round pick to Hawks) (?-?)
• first round pick (protected top 10 in 2023-25, else 2025 second round pick) (?-?)   

Mavs Received
• Kristaps Porzingis
• Tim Hardaway Jr.
• Courtney Lee
• Trey Burke

Likely the 2 picks are around 21 +/- 4 slots.
Tim the 2nd best player in the deal.
Trey Burke probably more useful for DAL then Smith Jr.

2019-07-12   Mavericks   
• Kristaps Porzingis (RFA) re-signed to a 5-year, $158.25M contract, with a 1-year player option for 2023
The only issue is really KZ's health.
And for a young significant talent, you have to pay and pray.

[bankshot1]

The clout and influence and connections of NBA owners can be beneficial to the players in effecting change.  If say the Knix players wanted to have a discussion with Jared Kushner, I'm pretty sure Dolan could arrange that.  It could even be worthwhile.  Weird but perhaps worthwhile.  Reportedly, Jared is going to reach out to LeBron James, and I'd love to hear that discussion.  Perhaps LeBJ should insist it be a public discussion anybody can patch into and listen to (or maybe after 30 mins of private chat).

Jared Kushner could give two shits about the NBA, the players, or racial equality, he cares about re-electing Trump a racist corrupt and inept evil fascist.

didn't you get the message of the RNC to appeal to black men and peel them off from Biden?

Didn't you see enough black props for Trump over the past few nights?

I'd be surprised if LeBron would get used politicaly in this manner, by Jared the great peace-maker of the Middle-East.

But given the leadership of the Knicks I would not be shocked to see Dolan put his players in an untenable postion to get used by the Trump campaign.

But even the greenest of Knick rookies should be able to see through the cynacism of this White House.

This is as pure a political ploy as possible.

JFC

The NBA players have the power and leverage now to get their message out on their own.

they should fucking use it.

[bodiddley]

Okay probably a bad example, but just wanted to underscore the power of some of these billionaire owners.  They can be valuable resources, have high level connections.  Sure the current timing is horrendous, but if Trump went on to a 2nd term, talking to Jared might be viable.  I doubt Dolan has any connections to Gov Coumo.

From Zach Lowe:

"More broadly, I wonder if something of a public reckoning is coming for team governors whose politics (and political donations) stand in stark and obvious opposition to those of something like 90% (and maybe more) of players. It has been the elephant in the NBA's room for a long time. It's not a secret. But if players (and coaches, and staff) start naming them, and forcing them into substantive discussions, the resulting dialogue could be important."

There is something unappealing and incongruous about NBA players being essentially forced to work for and make money for a James Dolan, a Trump donor and supporter working against their interests.

The NBPA needs to make a push for more black owners and more owners with viewpoints that align with the talent on the teams.

[bankshot1]

Okay probably a bad example, but just wanted to underscore the power of some of these billionaire owners.  They can be valuable resources, have high level connections.  Sure the current timing is horrendous, but if Trump went on to a 2nd term, talking to Jared might be viable.  I doubt Dolan has any connections to Gov Coumo.

From Zach Lowe:

"More broadly, I wonder if something of a public reckoning is coming for team governors whose politics (and political donations) stand in stark and obvious opposition to those of something like 90% (and maybe more) of players. It has been the elephant in the NBA's room for a long time. It's not a secret. But if players (and coaches, and staff) start naming them, and forcing them into substantive discussions, the resulting dialogue could be important."

There is something unappealing and incongruous about NBA players being essentially forced to work for and make money for a James Dolan, a Trump donor and supporter working against their interests.

The NBPA needs to make a push for more black owners and more owners with viewpoints that align with the talent on the teams.

Dude that's the nature of capitalism. Workers work for the owners.

I'd like to see diversity of ownership as well, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with a litmus test of color or politics as the deciding factor.

Should a seller be forced to give a discount based on political POV or skin-color?

Perhaps a discussion for another day.

PS-If Trump wins a 2nd term Jared wil have bigger fish to fry than the boys playing ball.

He'll be building prisons for the exalted leaders's political enemies.

and planning a 3rd term.

[bodiddley]

I never had a law firm trade me to another law firm which was right-wing and against my beliefs, and yet I was forced to work there.

Recently, my very good bank USAA closed down their brokerage services and shifted their customers to Charles Schwab.  I plan to look for another financier to handle my stock portfolio and make money off any trades I make, since Schwab is a large Trump supporter and donor.  I don't want to financially support such a company/person.

NBA players have fairly limited say in who they work for.  Only FA's have a choice.  Rooks get locked in for 4 years with no say.  Players can get traded and essentially forced to work for a Dolan.  Under those circumstances, removing the Dolans is reasonable and just.

Really I like the model of the players and fans owning the teams.  Currently the Green Bay Packers are the only community owned team in major pro sports.  A shareholder system, though not publicly traded.

[bankshot1]

I'm pretty sure a law-firm could not trade you anywhere, you do have protected rights, that I'm pretty sure you can't bragain away. But I'm not a lawyer so  you should check with someone who could provide you decent legal guidance to keep you out of involuntary servitude.

Players sign contracts that give them and the team and its management certain rights. Being traded is part of the risk-reward model of a professional athlete.

In any case, your analogy is pretty weak and comes nowhere close to addressing the issue you brought up of the inherent nature of capitalism, (making the boss wealthy) which you seem to have a poor grasp of.

When you find a new brokerage more aligned with your political leanings, (good luck with that) you should probably buy some MSG and as a shareholder. give Dolan your insights into running the business, turning the Knicks around, and maybe he'll teach you about capitalism and being a rock star.

best of luck


fwiw, I'll always be pissed I didn't buy shares in the Celts when they did an IPO in '86. IIRC, it was more a dividend play and I was more into growth.
I should have bought it for the stock certificate as wall art.

[bodiddley]

No, my point was having to work for an owner you don't want to work for.

Since the NBA has a limited number of franchises and only a few that come up for sale every so often, usually there are multiple bidders.  The NBA can and I'd argue should favor ownership groups that have the approval of the players, that align with the majority viewpoint of the workforce.  Especially since players can be forced to work for any of the 30 owners.  They should also prefer ownership bids which include ex-players and/or significant Black minority ownership stakes.