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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[chipstern]

Chip sniffing the glue again (this time re. Ntlikina and Bullock

Reg won't get the shots.  Frank won't get the minutes

Not at al certain that T Terry factors in one bit - and I dont see Burke there.

I like it when ChamAco debates ChamAAco 😜🤩🤪

Ah, the simple pleasures.   

[carlos123]

Chip sniffing the glue again (this time re. Ntlikina and Bullock

Reg won't get the shots.  Frank won't get the minutes

Not at al certain that T Terry factors in one bit - and I dont see Burke there.

I like it when ChamAco debates ChamAAco 😜🤩🤪

Ah, the simple pleasures.   

Another simple pleasure: Trump letting Chamaco sniff his ass.

[bodiddley]

One of many Simmons rumours/made-up trades has ATL cashing in their depth cache for Big Ben.  Gallo, Cam Reddish and Huerter for Simmons.

Gives PHI two shooters and an athletic wildcard wing to put around Embiid.
ATL gets an all-world defender who doesn't need shots.  Which is a nice complement to Ice Trae.  Upgrade their starting 5.

If DeAndre Hunter and Bogdanovich are healthy, Reddish is expendable.  While Jalen Johnson is a similar to Reddish wildcard wing talent. Simmons fills in everywhere.  I guess nominally Simmons starts at SF, with Hunter on the bench.  Simmons would guard PG a fair amount.

PHI gets spacing/shooting from Gallo and Huerter.  Gallo a vet and the definition of a stretch 4,  Okay so maybe he's overpaid, injury prone and often a bit casual.   Only issues: Tobias was best as a 4 last year.  And who runs PG for PHI? The lack of a PG is the problem here.  While Reddish has all-star potential, for now he's a bit of a wild man.

I like this trade a lot.  Think the lack of aPG for PHI dooms it.

[bodiddley]

ATL nearly 3 deep at every position:

PG  Trae Young  - Delon Wright      
SG  Bogdanovic  - Cam Reddish -  Lou Williams
SF  De'A Hunter - Kevin Huerter -  Jalen Johnson
PF  John Collins   - Danilo Gallinari - Solomon Hill   
C   Clint Capela  - Onyeka Okongwu - Gorgui Dieng

They'd be swapping 3 backups for an all-star level starter.

PG  Trae - Delon
SG  Bogdan - Lou Will - Jalen Johnson
SF  Simmons - DeAndre Hunt
PF  Collins - Sol Hill
C   Capela - Okongwu - Dieng

Simmons can back up at SG and PF, so don't have to rely on aging vets Lou Will or Sol Hill too much.  Okongwu also can play PF.

[chipstern]

Bo.

Interesting Phantasy.

Only thing is, Atlanta is way to smart and way too stacked to do it. 

At 6'8" Hunter is a terrific defender.  Are you really down shifting him into a backup.  He was their starting SF before he got hurt. 

At 6'8", Reddish also made a compelling case for himself as a wing defender during the playoffs. 

As for Gallinari at 6'10, not quite the overpaid mediocrity you portray him as.  Danilo sure burned our ass in the playoffs and gave the Hawks compelling depth at PF behind Collins.  Along with Hunter and Reddish he gives the Hawks serious depth and coverage at 3 and the 4, depending on matchups.  And they just drafted another big 6'8" wing in the Johnson kid from Duke, who projects as a work in progress at the 2 & 3. 

Meanwhile, Hawks have Bogdonavich and Huerter at SG [and SF] depending on matchups.  Some sort of one-two punch, and you propose off loading Huerter? 

Huerter is a confident shooter either off of the catch and shoot, or creating his own shot.  So let's cash him in on a lousy shooter, who is most effective with the ball in his hands creating in transition, either going to the rack or creating for others. 

Kind of creates a conflict with Trae Young, who as we might have noticed, IS THE TEAM LEADER. 

So by all means let's introduce another ball dominant facilitator in Simmons, who really doesn't offer much playing off the ball on offense. 

And as for PG depth, you seem to pooh pooh the contributions of Lou Williams, which I thought curious.  And the Hawks just drafted Auburn PG Sharife Cooper. 

Simmons is an all star caliber defender.  So you're going to slot him ahead of Hunter and Bogdonavich? 

Also, does Atlanta really need to bring in an emotional X-Factor such as Simmons to mess with their team chemistry and exceptional depth?  Does this make them significantly better? 

As they currently stand, the Hawks are much better than their 41-31 record suggests. 

And is it worth mentioning that Simmons' contract is an albatross?  His contract calls for him to pocket ONE HALF OH HIS YEARLY SALARY as of October 1 of each calendar year. 

I'm not feeling it, dude. 

[chipstern]

Never mind that Philly likely view the Atlanta OFFER as a little light in the loafers. 

Reddish and Gallinari as SFs beside Tobias Harris.  Right?  Makes some sense. 

Huerter obviously a nice addition as a SG-SF.  Still, the  Sixers not only still have Danny Green at SF-SG?  But Shake Milton and Matisse Thybulle and Seth Curry and Furkan Korkmaz at SG. 

Tyrese Maxey is ready to take on more PG minutes but both he and Philly first rounder Jaden Springer projects as a combo guards a la our own IQ. 

So I don't know.  Don't really see how this trade really benefits the Sixers, even though the numbers add up.  And while you have structured this Phantasy based on what you perceive as Hawks redundancies, those redundancies are a year older, a year wiser, with playoff experience under their belt, and a team spirit heading into the new year.  This is a deep, dangerous Hawks team.  Deep, dangerous AND YOUNG. 

PS: Oh, and do we really see Daryl Morey accepting spare parts and NO DRAFT CAPITAL. 

Anyway, Bo, interesting scenario on a dull no news day in advance of opening day of training camp, now barely a week away. 

[kidcarter8]

One of many Simmons rumours/made-up trades has ATL cashing in their depth cache for Big Ben.  Gallo, Cam Reddish and Huerter for Simmons.

Gives PHI two shooters and an athletic wildcard wing to put around Embiid.
ATL gets an all-world defender who doesn't need shots.  Which is a nice complement to Ice Trae.  Upgrade their starting 5.

If DeAndre Hunter and Bogdanovich are healthy, Reddish is expendable.  While Jalen Johnson is a similar to Reddish wildcard wing talent. Simmons fills in everywhere.  I guess nominally Simmons starts at SF, with Hunter on the bench.  Simmons would guard PG a fair amount.

PHI gets spacing/shooting from Gallo and Huerter.  Gallo a vet and the definition of a stretch 4,  Okay so maybe he's overpaid, injury prone and often a bit casual.   Only issues: Tobias was best as a 4 last year.  And who runs PG for PHI? The lack of a PG is the problem here.  While Reddish has all-star potential, for now he's a bit of a wild man.

I like this trade a lot.  Think the lack of aPG for PHI dooms it.

Good post.

The opposite of how it seems most fans feel about OUR youth in NY, that we need to build with it, not use it in deals.

[kidcarter8]

Chip would have a great point re:  the deal being light had he pointed out you didnt have draft capital in there

[kidcarter8]

Chip is also wondering where you would "slot" Simmons in ATL's lineup

Too funny.

[bodiddley]

Gallo is pretty much strictly a PF at this point.
And as I noted, Tobias killed as a PF, and was closer to average as an SF.
That and the lack of a PG for PHI probably derails such a deal.
And yes, Gallo can still bring it at times.

LouW is perhaps the worst defender in the League nowadays.
And Trae isn't much better.  That and Lou being much more up and down as a scorer, makes it increasingly hard to play him.  You can bring LouW in and see if he's hot that night.  But he tends to give back as much as he gets.  Lou, by his own admission, doesn't really work on his game.  He says he stays away from the young players so they don't pick up his bad partying habits.

I'm bullish on DeA Hunter but he's only played one NBA season's worth of games.  And coming off a knee injury.  I'd think he's better as a backup SF for now.  Still plenty to learn, including staying out of foul trouble.  And if he plays well, Simmons shifts to other roles and you can still play Hunter 25 mins a night if deserved.

ATL depth is great, but means that Jalen Johnson, Okongwu and likely Reddish are underutilized.  And don't get to develop in NBA games.  With vets Sol Hill and LouW likely having trouble getting court time as well.  Too many players not getting in games can make for tension and dissension.  If they believe that Hunter and Bogdan can stay healthy, I'd make the trade. 

Trae - Bogs - Hunter - Collins can all make 3's.  Should be enough shooting.  One issue is whether you can play Capela and Simmons together ... 
Key for me, is Simmons ability to play many positions and to guard PG's.  Mid-4Q of a close game, and suddenly you deploy 6'10" athletic Simmons to smother the opposing PG.  That's a key weakness for ATL right now. 

[kidcarter8]

I have zero problem with underutilization.  ATL is trying to get to an EC Final.

Reddish was in trade talks - may not be long for this team, Simmons or no.  Had a glimmer late last year, that's it.

Okongwu has extreme situational value and will be USED, though the minutes may not scream it.  May be a starter in time for someone.

J Johnson a wild card - will get his time IN time.  Push guys in the meantime - and who knows - could break out in a Herro way, putting other butts on the pine (long shot for '21-'22).  If he doesnt play nothing is lost

[lesterluv]

Chip is also wondering where you would "slot" Simmons in ATL's lineup

Too funny.

Legit issue. Atlanta's magic is guys like Huerter, Hunter, Gallo, etc just killing you when you focused down on Trae. You got Capela & Simmons in the same lineup and suddenly things aren't so dangerous. Ben's woes are very real and not gonna disappear with a change of scenery. He's got to slot into the right fit. I actually like such a trade a lot for Philly, particularly with a Cooper or picks tossed in.

[kidcarter8]

Have to wonder if Lester knows what Ben Simmons career FG percentage is.

Should ATL deal for him?  Sure - they should have interest.

Can they without giving up a couple of picks in addition to talent?  No.

Would Simmons be happy reporting to Atlanta?  Hell no.

Would that hold up a deal?  Maybe.

WAITING for the NYK talk re:  Simmons.  Would be so perfect.

[chipstern]

So, Ben would be so perfect on the Knicks, huh? 

Ben's first four years in the league, his total FT makes and attempts were as follows:

191-341
257-428
185-298
176-287

Not exactly DRIVEN is he...has gone backwards.

By contrast, someone who was driven? 

Jerry West's First Four?

331-497
712-926
371-477
584-702

So even for the great Jerry West, it took a while for him to get his FT shooting to a top tier level.  BUT HE WORKED ON HIS GAME AND HIS CONFIDENCE, and was driven to keep getting better.

By 1965-66, his sixth year in the league, Jerry West converted 840-977, for a .860%, so HE GOT BETTER EVERY YEAR.  And Jerry West was a great defensive player. 

To put that into perspective, Jerry West [840] converted more FTs in one season, than Ben Simmons has made in four seasons [809]. 

Oscar Robertson, in his best season?  In 1963-64, he averaged 31.4 points, 11.0 rebounds and 9.9 assists.  He converted 800-938 FTs for an .853%. 

In the open court, getting to the rack in transition, making plays for his team mates, Ben Simmons is a significant talent.  That he has not advanced his game in other ways, does not speak well of him as someone you trade your entire fucking team for.  And makes him a significant liability come the final five minutes of a close game. 

LeBron.  Giannis.  Steph.  KD.  They are capable of carrying their team. 

Sorry.  But Gentle Ben has NO Johnson. 

[lesterluv]

Have to wonder if Lester knows what Ben Simmons career FG percentage is.

Have to wonder if Kiid knows where Clint Capela lives. 

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/ben-simmons-2021-playoffs-shot-chart

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/clint-capela-2021-playoffs-shot-chart