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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[kiidcarter8]

I dont fault the Knicks on Melo.  Walking away would have taken real balls.  Took too long to deal him - you could quibble.

Melo doesnt know how to lead in a losing atmosphere? (or at all, depending on who you ask)

Of course never thought we'd have to find this out.

News flash - this isnt uncommon.

[kiidcarter8]

Do you think Jimmy Butler gives up 50 mil so he can play in NY with Kyrie (rather than staying in Clipperland with Kawhi)?

Strike now or no Butler, smart money says.

(not saying we should/shouldnt do it - leaving that to the execs)

[kiidcarter8]

"And again if they (BUT and KI) didnt come, we'd still be in a great spot."

Here is the rub......

Knicks will chase Durant.

All the while KI (if he hasnt already reupped with BOS) and Jimmy (if he isnt already in Clipperland with a new 5 year 191) are what - just waiting for us?

Likely not.

Decision on Butler is now, no matter how you slice it.

[kiidcarter8]

Re:  "still in a great spot"

I do sort of agree.  There are just levels

I see THJ having a pretty big year - and forming a nice returning dependable troika with KP and KK (center and PGs be damned!)

Other free agents, beyond the 3 mentioned (and Kanter)?  I guess that is the next thing to discuss.

[kiidcarter8]

But.............sorry, cant let this go...

You are TURNING DOWN

(Free agent PG, Kyrie or other)
Hardaway
Butler
Knox
Porzingis

Really?





No.....

really?

[chipstern]

Really. 

There is NO...Zero...NO Guarantee that Irving is coming.  With or without Butler. 

Butler just hung his team out to dry. 

And that should motivate us to move heaven and Earth in to make him THE MAN on the Knicks, and that makes us a lock to get Kyrie? 

Evidence? 

Once again...

Thibs wants to win now...that is his mandate. 

That is his life/death sentence. 

His owner is beginning to get freaked.  Thibs does not have a great bedside manner. 

And the trade they made for Butler has blown up in their face. 

They basically gifted the Bulls three young starters for an uber-talented two way player, who, alas, has marked himself as a self-absorbed malcontent. 

PG: Kris Dunn
SG: Zach LaVine
PF: Lauri Markkanen

And the money they saved on Butler, they were able to spend on Jabari Parker, their new starting SF. 

And they just drafted Wendell Carter as their center of the future. 

That's five #1 picks, basically.  Three of which came the Bulls way for Butler. 

The Bulls have committed to moving on from their bell cow in favor of youth, and they are looking pretty damn good going into 2018-2019.  They have a youthful core, and a potential superstar in Markkanen.  And while Parker cannot be mentioned in the same breath as Butler, defensive-wise, he has the potential to be an offensive force.  Also, come next spring, Jabari will be 24.  Butler will be 30. 

So, we should put together an analogous package to give Mr. Butler a max deal, make him the bell cow, and leverage him to impact our chemistry, potentially blowing off our coach and dictating the future direction of this franchise. 

Really?

NO.

There is no guarantee that Butler's presence would presuppose Irving leaving the Celtics.

Nor is there any hard and fast evidence, that the lack of Butler's presence would presuppose losing Irving if he really wants to come to NYC. 

Butler is a mirage. 

Been down this road before, and what you and I think is essentially moot, because the Knicks AIN'T DOING IT. 

We have Knox and Hezonja (and Thomas) at SF-PF, we have Hardaway and Nitilkina (and for the moment, Lee and Dotson) at SG-SF. 

And like it or not, Porzingis is our bell cow.  I know you agree with Phil Jackson that we should trade him. 

Mazel Tov. 

The Knicks appear fine with their rebuild as presently constituted moving forward, the allure of this shining object and the drumbeat of fans and media notwithstanding.  I am sure they have done their due diligence, and I am just as sure Thibs has blown them off, or asked for the moon. 

While I do not necessarily share Biz's projections of us as a 20-win team, I do believe, a #1 in the summer of 2019, and room for one max contract looks fine, going forward. 

And Jimmy has said he wants to be traded before media day? 

Yup, just the kind of presence we want to define OUR FRANCHISE. 

"To dream, the impossible dream..." 

[kiidcarter8]

EM lookin good

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016

[Kam]

EM lookin good

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016

If you ranked the EM fans on this board i'd be in last place but that video looked good, i saw a slowed-down, in control, confident Mudiay.

It may not be a sure sign of a good thing, but its not a bad thing either.

The more of these "wild card" reclamation projects we reclaim the better.  Gives us options.  Never a bad thing.  Rooting for EM.

[Kam]

EM lookin good

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016

Watched it a couple times. It seems like videos from 2 different 3 on 3 scrimmages.  I can make out EM playing with Kanter and Ntilikina.  (Hope there were some passes from EM to Frank but i saw none) but i couldn't make out clearly who the opponents were.

[Kam]

I still believe the Melo deal was the right move at the time; Mozgov's yield to a desperate David Griffin later is a valid point but I think the Knicks, with Amare in hand and the likelihood that Melo would have gone to Brooklyn meant that the alternative - proceeding with Amare plus the youth we traded - made much less sense. I've heard the arguments, I suppose you've heard mine.

I see this situation differently. Butler is older than Melo was, and the core is younger. There is no win-now imperative that an Amare-type player might compel. The upcoming free agency the next two years is more favourable to NY than what Donnie faced. The draft, which meant little to the Knicks the year Amare had them flirting with the playoffs pre-Melo, means so much this year.

I think this Knicks team has the chance to do something special - 25 wins. If Kanter or Hardaway miss time before Christmas, then Porzingis' arrival may well be delayed until after the ASB. Then we might be in the mix for something even more special - under 20 wins. Add any of RJ (be still my heart), Little, Zion, Reddish or even Langford to the core of KP/Knox/Frank/TimJr, and our core becomes legitimately exciting. Plus we'd have one max spot this summer or two the following summer.

The big play I'd look isn't cashing chips in for Butler but rather trying to move Courtney Lee to Philly for Jerryd Bayless (expiring) and TimJr to Sacto for expirings (they have loads of flexibility) or to Dallas for Wessy Wes (expiring); I'd be willing to sacrifice either Burke or Mudiay to do it, but not picks. Those two moves would give us enough cap space for two max spots and still be in a position to resign either Hezonja or potentially even Kanter (as well as possibly Vonleh or Burke or Mudiay). We'd be one of the three worst teams in the league, yes, but with the payoff of lots of time for the kids and the belief that the rebuild would be expedited this summer, once we add a top-5 or so pick and, potentially, two stars. If the Fizdale aura is real, I could see Kyrie/Butler being in play. Hell, if we get Barrett or Little, I could see Kyrie/Durant being in play. We wouldn't be a team that looked like it was going to lose forever.

And, again, if they didn't come, we'd still be in great spot. I don't see a compelling enough reason to bring in Butler now.

You make good points for staying out of the Butler-Irving -- trifecta? 

But i don't think there is any chance KD ever plays for the Knicks. 

Hope i'm wrong but just don't see him as the guy to lead us to the promised land.

Not cut out for this cloth.

Mentally.

And you can't assume we will land a top 5 pick.

We were 9 this season.  And that was with a half-season from KP.  Same as next year.

That's a lot of teams to  -- leapfrog?

So to me... if you don't do Butler now and Irving later... you won't get either

And you're never gonna get KD....

so who are you making all this cap space for??

DeMarcus Cousins?  Draymond Green?

[kiidcarter8]

Enes Kanter?

[facilitatorn]

Enes Kanter?

Someone I’d happily ship out to make room for Jimmy Butler.

[chipstern]

Enes Kanter?

Someone I’d happily ship out to make room for Jimmy Butler.

Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do. 

[chipstern]

Emmanuel looks like he's dropped around 20 pounds. 

Just seems leaner, quicker and more decisive.  And much better technique on his jumper. 

A good first step. 

I'm looking forward to Fizz tossing some raw meat into the compound and watching those dogs Trey, Frank and Emmanuel 'fuss 'n fight. 

[thebizneverloses]

Kam - I think Butler and the kiddie corps is a bad enough fit I'm ok rolling with cap space even if we don't sign an all-star.

As for no guarantee of a top-5 pick, absolutely. But I think we will trend younger this year and Porzingis will play less than last year's 48 games (and still be recovering for those games he does play). So I see better chances at a top-5 pick.


re the Butler to Minny deal, the Wolves gave up Dunn, who doesn't look to me like he'll ever be a starter on a good team; Lavine, who smart teams would have let walk rather than sign to that crazy contract; and the Markannen/Patton swap. The latter is a genuine loss, the other two not so much. They made the playoffs for the first time since Bush was president because of the deal. It isn't the disaster of a deal some are making it out to be, even after the Wolves trade Butler for less than Markannen's worth.