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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[chipstern]

The Strategy has worked...

when we want a guy, we have a more than fair shot at getting them,

perhaps only other team is the Lakers who can make that claim...

... the error was the targets selected.

Jerome James Joakim Noah... 

the METS sucked for years because they were afraid to give out money to a big Free Agent because of Bobby Bonilla.

Scared money don't make none.

Targeted that LeBron James fellow, did we not? 

Rolled out the red carpet.

Since 1996, who were our free agent signings? 

Chris Childs

Andrew Lang

Allan Houston

Jerome James

Amare Stoudamire

Doesn't seem like we have been much of a destination, does it? 

Amare and Allan were legit signings, who gave us a couple of really good years before their knees gave out. 

Otherwise. 

NADA.

[kiidcarter8]

Tim






Hardaway







JUNIOR!!

[bodiddley]

weren't the Knix usually capped out?

I have concerns and reservations about Butler.
But KZ & Butler gives you two of the Top 10 two-way players in the NBA.

I'd say:
LeBJ, Kawhi, Paul George, Embiid, Chris Paul,
Durant, Anthony Davis, KZ, Butler, Ben Simmons

3rd team all 2-way: Antetokounmpo, Oladipo (one good year so far), maybe Klay (but I think his D is overrated), Horford.  Guys like Covington and Middleton are next up.

Am I forgetting anyone?

Back to the Knix.
If you court two of the Top 10 best two-way players, it's not that hard to build a team around them.  Find a credible starting PG and you're in the homecourt playoff mix.  Add some pieces and you're a legit contender.  Butler would make the Knix relevant next year, and could help attract a legit FA.

Now if you don't think Fizz can handle such a dynamic.  Or the Knick team isn't ready for a top-flight vet, okay. 

I'm somewhat on the fence, but if the cost is say Courtly, Franc, and Lance, I pull the trigger.

[Kam]

The Strategy has worked...

when we want a guy, we have a more than fair shot at getting them,

perhaps only other team is the Lakers who can make that claim...

... the error was the targets selected.

Jerome James Joakim Noah... 

the METS sucked for years because they were afraid to give out money to a big Free Agent because of Bobby Bonilla.

Scared money don't make none.

Targeted that LeBron James fellow, did we not? 

Rolled out the red carpet.

Since 1996, who were our free agent signings? 

Chris Childs

Andrew Lang

Allan Houston

Jerome James

Amare Stoudamire

Doesn't seem like we have been much of a destination, does it? 

Amare and Allan were legit signings, who gave us a couple of really good years before their knees gave out. 

Otherwise. 

NADA.

We got JR Smith when he came back from China then we re-signed him on the cheap because of the hometown (NJ) discount.

LeBron had other plans.

Teams have diferent strengths in free agency... Lakers and NYKnicks have the allure of the Franchise Blue Bloods. the Texas and Florida teams have the lack of State Income tax. Lakers have Hollywood. LA Bron.

[Kam]

And a lot is made about Butler turning 33 or whatever at the end of his deal.

LaMarcus Aldridge is 33.  He just had a pretty good year.

[bodiddley]

Butler is a high mileage 29 (heavy minutes under Thibs) and just had some knee issues.  And his game relies on athleticism more than LMA's. 

I think the last year of his max deal would be something like $42M during his age 34 campaign (but that's without looking anything up).

I also hold his bullshit attitude the past two seasons/teams against him.  But there's no question he has talent and plays hard.  Which is why you have a rumoured 20 teams asking about him.

All-Defensive 2nd team 4 of the past 5 years.

[chipstern]

Tim Hardaway JUNIOR!!

True Dat. 

However,  I don't think we would consider Timmy as a Tier 1 Free Agent, along the lines of, oh, Klay Thompson. 

People talked about overpaying. 

Hey, it was a roll of the dice, and we wanted to put the kibosh on Atlanta matching. 

No guarantee that they would fail to match, even with those numbers. 

Nyets made big time/big money offers to Tyler Johnson and Allan Crabbe, both exceeding money Knicks proffered to Timmy. 

Miami regrets matching on RFA Tyler; Portland matched and ended up cutting their losses by trading Crabbe to the Nyets anyway. 

[chipstern]

Butler is a high mileage 29 (heavy minutes under Thibs) and just had some knee issues.  And his game relies on athleticism more than LMA's. 

I think the last year of his max deal would be something like $42M during his age 34 campaign (but that's without looking anything up).

I also hold his bullshit attitude the past two seasons/teams against him.  But there's no question he has talent and plays hard.  Which is why you have a rumoured 20 teams asking about him.

All-Defensive 2nd team 4 of the past 5 years.

Okay

Latest rumor?

Rockets making a push for Butler. 

Here is a trade that works for both teams, though Houston comes out ahead, for sure. 

Eric Gordon, JP Tucker, Brandon Knight and a #1

FOR

Jimmy Butler & Gorgui Dieng. 

Minny gets rid of Dieng and his contract, which is purportedly a priority, receive a starting SG, a solid defensive sixth man wing in PJ Tucker, and a point on Knight. 

Butler becomes Houston's starting SF. 

Paul-Harden-Butler-Anthony-Capella

Dieng off the bench at PF and C.

Perhaps some combo of Speights or Green or Carter-Williams sweetens the pot...extra draft picks...

I suppose this is a legit offer, but Minny asking Philly for Ben Simmons would signal delusions of grandeur. 

And this trade would turn Houston into a conference juggernaut, capable of nuking the likes of Minnesota for next two-three years. 

Still, only way the number work are with Gordon-Tucker-Knight and taking back Dieng. 

Perhaps if another team was involved, such as the Kings. 

Anyway, something for all of you Trader Vics to contemplate. 

[thebizneverloses]

Tim Hardaway JUNIOR!!

Nyets made big time/big money offers to Tyler Johnson and Allan Crabbe, both exceeding money Knicks proffered to Timmy. 

Miami regrets matching on RFA Tyler; Portland matched and ended up cutting their losses by trading Crabbe to the Nyets anyway.

Other teams making dumb deals doesn't make THJr's deal any less ill-advised.

There were many teams that notably did not sign players to dumb deals, for example. Maybe the Celtics, not the Nets, should be the model. They never would have signed Timmy to that contract.

[bodiddley]

I like that HOU deal.
You have to remember there's no guarantee Butler re-ups with his new team.

I'm wary of both RFA's and big/max contracts well into a player's 30's.
Both can be dangerous.

[Yankguy1]

I think the idea that the Knicks are an attractive team to free agents because New York is the mecca of basketball is a notion long-dead and buried. Terrible ownership, ridiculous player personnel decisions and the "nationalization" of the  NBA (i.e. you don't have to be in New York for exposure and commercial opportunity) puts paud to any such notion.

If the Knicks think (do they?) that the "New York" on the front of their jerseys gives  them an edge they'll never escape the rut they've been in. Of course as in most things with me, I think I'm good at indentifying problems but have no idea how to fix them.

[kiidcarter8]

I laugh heartily at anyone who doesn't appreciate what Chris Childs brought to the Knicks

Oh, yeah - forgot - unless it was to a "winner", doesnt count.

OY.

[Kam]

I think the idea that the Knicks are an attractive team to free agents because New York is the mecca of basketball is a notion long-dead and buried. Terrible ownership, ridiculous player personnel decisions and the "nationalization" of the  NBA (i.e. you don't have to be in New York for exposure and commercial opportunity) puts paud to any such notion.

If the Knicks think (do they?) that the "New York" on the front of their jerseys gives  them an edge they'll never escape the rut they've been in. Of course as in most things with me, I think I'm good at indentifying problems but have no idea how to fix them.

You may be right.  But the last couple seasons (maybe because we can't guard anyone) I usually hear visiting players post-game interview talk about their big game in the garden and how it is a stage unlike any other in Basketball. 

Their words shape my opinion that there are some (not all) players who would relish playing here 41 times a season.

PLUS you have the CITY OF NEW YORK to live/hang out in year round.  And a lot (not all) of humans would relish living here 24/7.

So you take the Venn Diagram of players who like MSG and players who like NYC and that is not an insignificant number of players.

I think only the LA Lakers rivals that package.

That advantage has been eroded by the era of the Superteam and Players and their Agents conspiring to play with other players they like.

Thats a new thing... some blame the AAU circuit.  And also on the Shoe Contracts that rival what they get from the NBA.

But to refute your point about exposure... i am sorry but you're going to have to give me an example of the guy (Giannis, Dame Lillard, Anthony Davis, etc) who wouldn't have his profiled raised a lot higher with much more exposure if he were in a better (read: bigger) market.

And i bet if you took a poll of all the international players they would probably also want NY or LA or Chicago over say Charlotte or Memphis.

[Kam]

Trey
Frank
Kevin
Mario
Mitch


6th man: THjr
7th man: Enes
8th man: Lee

[Kam]

Mudiay
Vonleh
Lance
Kornet