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Warriors

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Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[kiidcarter8]

Looney 3/$15M to stay in GS.
Seems like a big discount.
I thought he could get up to $10M per.

For what?

Average salary is over $9M now.

Looney runs the floor, can set screens and roll, pretty solid boarder, has vet experience at 23, mobile defender.
And you hope he can expand his game when not limited by his role around 4 all-stars.

I thought he'd be in the $8M - $10M range.

Exactly

A game that needs to be expanded is not worth 3-30.

[kiidcarter8]

For 1.6mil   

One Taj Gibson = 6 Noah Vonlehs

You have to factor in the salary level they are at now.  And the body of work.

YES to Gibson.  WE signed him straight away, with the others - so it was thought out, pondered plenty in advance.  I am sure advanced metrics are good on our bigs acquisitions

[FWK00]

Grade the moves of the FO

A   

RJ Barrett   -  Knicks made the obvious move.  And they didn't mess it up.   That gets them an A.


B+   

Julius Randle -  You can like the player and the contract, but it's hard to give them an A when Randle was Plan B or C


B

Ignas Bradzeikis - Looks like the Knicks invested to move up in the 2nd round on a guy who can stick in the league.  That's great for picking that late.

C+

Bobby Portis  - Earned his deal on the strength of inflated numbers playing on bad teams.  He can only play Center.  No twin towers lineups with Mitch.  Obviously Knicks gonna fuck up Mitch's development.   Why did we need another young C?  Offense/defense platoon the plan for Mitch and Bobby?  How long before Bobby punches Mitch in de face?  Only reason I give it a C+ and not a worse grade is on the murky "potential" of Portis as a player and trade chit.

C

Kris Wilkes and the rest of their summer league signings.  Only because i'm being generous.

F

Everyone else was a waste,  rather have Patrick Beverly than Elfrid Payton, and prefer Robin Lopez to Taj Gibson, and i don't know wtf we were doing announcing signing NBA journeymen like Wayne Ellington, and Reggie Bullock to easy money deals.  There were so many shitty deals to one dimensional players did i miss anybody?


And because the KP trade made this spending $pree possible, and since a lack of talent scared off Kyrie (who has KD on a leash) the overall grade for the Knicks Front Office is:  Z-


 

Yes, the Knicks pay well because the media's favorite pinata, James Dolan, generously compensates players - many of whom do little to deserve.

Kyrie was NOT SCARED OFF.  The Knicks didn't think he was a max talent BUT would have paid him had Durant been healthy and insisted the Knicks hold their noses and take him in.  Six months from now when the Nets are choking on Irving's locker room manner and when the realization that Randle will score more points for the Knicks in two years then Durant will in four years - nobody at ESPN will admit what Durant homers and a-holes they've been.

Payton is on the cusp of breaking out based on years of experience.  Good time to take a flyer on him.

Portis was not the problem on bad teams.  He's a limited talent but a talent nonetheless.

Beverly was never coming here - has nothing to do with the Knicks - he likes LA. Period.

Gibson is better at what he does than you think.

This team will win games. January trade deadline trades will dictate whether or not we make the playoffs.

[FWK00]

Everyone but Randle is a potentially ending contract tradeabe in January.

Those trades, which will happen, may bring back multiple second rounders.

But Clippers used cap space the Knicks easily could have had to obtain Moe Harkless and a first rounder. I'd take that over Payton + Ellington.

Grizzlies used a trade exemption to obtain Iguodala plus a very intriguing Golden State first rounder. I'd definitely take that over Bobby Portis.

Suns had used their cap space to acquire Aron Baynes and a first rounder. Can't blame the Knicks on this one, they were for holding out for two max free agents at the time this deal was consummated, but it's another "coulda been". Similarly, taking TJ Warren would have come with the 32nd pick overall (which itself was flipped for three second rounders, but could have been, say, Bol Bol).

So the Knicks, effectively, could have signed Randle and Bullock and done the above and still saved their room exception:

DSJ/Ntilikina/Kadeem
RJ/Bullock/Trier
Iguodala/Harkless/TJ Warren/Brazdeikas
Randle/Knox
Mitch/Baynes/Bol

Plus extra 1sts from Golden State, Philadelphia, Miami. And you tell Iguodala "Play hard for us, give us a list of five teams and we'll trade you there in January", meaning you might extract value for Iguodala. Or, worst case, you waive him in February. You try to move TJ Warren as well throughout the season for nothing but an expiring.

That team is better on the court than what the Knicks will have if the shooting can be sorted out, plus better positioned in the long term.

Even hitting on one of the above trades would have been nice. Instead we signed a lot of kinda valuable 8th men. Unimaginative way to build a team.

Underrating Portis

I agree. Portis is a load.

[Kam]

Everyone but Randle is a potentially ending contract tradeabe in January.

Those trades, which will happen, may bring back multiple second rounders.

But Clippers used cap space the Knicks easily could have had to obtain Moe Harkless and a first rounder. I'd take that over Payton + Ellington.

Grizzlies used a trade exemption to obtain Iguodala plus a very intriguing Golden State first rounder. I'd definitely take that over Bobby Portis.

Suns had used their cap space to acquire Aron Baynes and a first rounder. Can't blame the Knicks on this one, they were for holding out for two max free agents at the time this deal was consummated, but it's another "coulda been". Similarly, taking TJ Warren would have come with the 32nd pick overall (which itself was flipped for three second rounders, but could have been, say, Bol Bol).

So the Knicks, effectively, could have signed Randle and Bullock and done the above and still saved their room exception:

DSJ/Ntilikina/Kadeem
RJ/Bullock/Trier
Iguodala/Harkless/TJ Warren/Brazdeikas
Randle/Knox
Mitch/Baynes/Bol

Plus extra 1sts from Golden State, Philadelphia, Miami. And you tell Iguodala "Play hard for us, give us a list of five teams and we'll trade you there in January", meaning you might extract value for Iguodala. Or, worst case, you waive him in February. You try to move TJ Warren as well throughout the season for nothing but an expiring.

That team is better on the court than what the Knicks will have if the shooting can be sorted out, plus better positioned in the long term.

Even hitting on one of the above trades would have been nice. Instead we signed a lot of kinda valuable 8th men. Unimaginative way to build a team.

Underrating Portis

I agree. Portis is a load.

Portis is a black hole on offense.  With the added bonus of he doesn't defend. 

[Kam]

If the Knicks traded for Kanter.   His contract is great now.  We could nail him to the bench with DNPs as punishment.

[Kam]

Julius Randle           $21,000,000
Bobby Portis            $15,500,000
Taj Gibson               $10,000,000
Elfrid Payton             $8,000,000
Reggie Bullock          $8,000,000
Wayne Ellington        $8,000,000
RJ Barrett                 $8,000,000
Joakim Noah             $6,431,666   
Frank Ntilikina           $4,855,800   
Dennis Smith             $4,463,640   
Kevin Knox                $4,385,640   
Allonzo Trier              $3,551,100   
Damyean Dotson       $1,618,520   
Mitchell Robinson       $1,559,712
Ignas Bradzeikas       $1,500,000


Probable Starters:

Bobby Portis            $15,500,000
Julius Randle           $21,000,000
Kevin Knox               $4,385,640
RJ Barrett                 $8,000,000
Elfrid Payton             $8,000,000

Depth on the Bench:

Mitchell Robinson       $1,559,712
Taj Gibson               $10,000,000
Reggie Bullock          $8,000,000
Allonzo Trier              $3,551,100
Dennis Smith             $4,463,640   

Misc, fringe, on the bubble, etc:

Wayne Ellington        $8,000,000
Joakim Noah             $6,431,666   
Frank Ntilikina           $4,855,800   
Damyean Dotson       $1,618,520   
Ignas Bradzeikas       $1,500,000
Kadeem Allen            2-way contract
Kris Wilkes                2-way contract

[Kam]

We have a team of 2nd teamers

Over $40million invested in the bench


For the record i do want to see this unit play together for the fun of it:

Mitchell Robinson       $1,559,712
Taj Gibson               $10,000,000
Reggie Bullock          $8,000,000
Allonzo Trier              $3,551,100
Dennis Smith             $4,463,640   

[Kam]

The geniuses in charge plan is to trade for CP3 with the ending deals.

Wouldn't be such a bad thing except for the 44mil due in 2021 

That is where my support falls short of making the deal.  No sale.

[Kam]

My support for Fizdale ends if he cannot win 34 games with this group.
Playoffs should be the goal, but realistically anything higher than 11th place in the East will be a job well done with this roster.


But c'mon.  Fiz was hired in part because guys like DWade and LeBron spoke highly of him.  That was supposed to help us lure big time free agents.  Didn't happen really.   And then he was called a good development coach who could rehabilitate young players' careers.   Welll Mudiay got a one year deal in Utah for like 2.5 mil.  So hurray! 

Realistically if you are a developmental coach then develop your team from 17 to 34 wins.  Otherwise any nameless jackal could get 20-30 wins from this group.

[facilitatorn]

I want Boogie & we have the room exception to do it. 1+a team option, like all the other soldiers.

[Kam]

I want Boogie & we have the room exception to do it. 1+a team option, like all the other soldiers.

Sure, why not?   At this point we are hoping for miracles.  RJ Barrett please be the second coming of MJ.  Thank you.

[elephant]

Julius Randle           $21,000,000
Bobby Portis            $15,500,000
Taj Gibson               $10,000,000
Elfrid Payton             $8,000,000
Reggie Bullock          $8,000,000
Wayne Ellington        $8,000,000
RJ Barrett                 $8,000,000
Joakim Noah             $6,431,666   
Frank Ntilikina           $4,855,800   
Dennis Smith             $4,463,640   
Kevin Knox                $4,385,640   
Allonzo Trier              $3,551,100   
Damyean Dotson       $1,618,520   
Mitchell Robinson       $1,559,712
Ignas Bradzeikas       $1,500,000


Probable Starters:

Bobby Portis            $15,500,000
Julius Randle           $21,000,000
Kevin Knox               $4,385,640
RJ Barrett                 $8,000,000
Elfrid Payton             $8,000,000

Depth on the Bench:

Mitchell Robinson       $1,559,712
Taj Gibson               $10,000,000
Reggie Bullock          $8,000,000
Allonzo Trier              $3,551,100
Dennis Smith             $4,463,640   

Misc, fringe, on the bubble, etc:

Wayne Ellington        $8,000,000
Joakim Noah             $6,431,666   
Frank Ntilikina           $4,855,800   
Damyean Dotson       $1,618,520   
Ignas Bradzeikas       $1,500,000
Kadeem Allen            2-way contract
Kris Wilkes                2-way contract

Randle starts.

Is anyone else a certainty?

That's the kind of team we've got.

[facilitatorn]

I agree completely about Randle being a lock.

We have experienced, technical, intelligent spot-starter level guys in Taj, Bullock, and Ellington. Our young guys have to show they can out produce these guys to earn more than spot minutes themselves, that is on top of the competition between the various youth.

Assuming Randle starts and gets big minutes, here are potential battles

For time at C: Mitch v. Portis v. Taj
For backup PF: Portis v. Knox v. Ignas v. Taj
For time at SF: Knox v. Barrett v. Dotson v. Frank v. Ignas v. Bullock
For time at SG: Barrett v. Dotson v. Trier v. Frank v. Bullock v. Ellington
For time at PG: DJS v. Trier v. Frank v. Barrett v. Payton

It’s up to players to decide the kind of role they want and to put the time in and prove it.

If you have 60 million invested in guys younger and less experienced than Randle, it is a smart move to spend 26 million on your proven yardsticks. We may have another few million to go, or do something to get a big for a guard or wing. Maybe see if Milwaukee will do something for Christian Wood to bolster their backcourt.

[bodiddley]

Teams haphazardly thrown together with lots of new faces and plenty of unproven yute don't usually win much at all.  And guys on essentially one year contracts aren't conducive to team building and buying in. 

Another tough project year for Fizz, with more vet players.  We went from reclamations to post-reclamations -- Bullocks; Payton, Ellington.  They've all established themselves as adequate bench guys, but with sloppiness and funk in their games.  Ellington loves off-balance 3's.  Bullocks crashes around effortfully, is foul prone with erratic shooting.  Needs to limit mistakes.  Payton is a weird player, but we need the PG help.  Scrappers.

I was advocating bringing in a vet F presence.  Taj was was one my targets.  But once you add Randle and Portis, Taj becomes superfluous.  I would have gone for a vet SF -- Ariza, Gay, a likely very cheap DMC. 

I also see Portis as more of a combo F, unless he's really beefed up (and learned to defend).  I like aggressive Portis.  but he needs to focus more and be more court aware.  Been a guy on my radar for a while.  Thought he looked great out of the box early in his rook season.  But something has been holding him back.  Systems?   Motor?   Ten-cent head?

Randle is a solid gamble.  2 years guaranteed.  So the overpay is fine.  But isn't this the wrong role for him?  Like when Tim Jr. was our #1 scoring option.  Need to push the pace to get the full Randle experience.  When he tries to do too much, he crashes into and through people, and throws up ugly shots.  When he stays within himself, he's pretty good.  I think Knix are the wrong team/team construction for him.

Another concern is with all the vet additions, that our yute doesn't get the court time they should.  Easy to see Knox getting lost in the shuffle.  Dotson as well.  Does Frank still have a locker?   

Not sure why we overloaded: 
Randle/Portis + Taj
Bullocks & Ellington
I would have liked to have brought back Vonleh and Kornet.
And added a vet SF like DMC.