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Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[josh]

COVID-19 Deaths by Race/Ethnicity

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/covid-19-deaths-by-race-ethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D

That's a fascinating chart, Kid!

In 31 states, the percentage of whites who have died minus percentage of whites in their population is greater than the gap between percentage of African-Americans who have died minus their percentage in the state's population.

In 19 states, it goes the other way. It's equal in one state.

In many cases, the differences in percentages from population to deaths is small. In a few cases, the A-A population is too small for there to be a significant gap in population to deaths.

But still, it is striking how many states see a significantly greater death rate among their white citizens!

[josh]

Following Kid's Kaiser Foundation post, this seemed like an interesting chart. It looks at deaths in counties from COVID following Stay in Place Orders (SIPO). Rate = 0 is about their being little support for Trump, 0.5 is a fairly even split between support for Trump vs. support for Biden, and 1.0 is strong support for Trump

As days following SIPO progressed, the more a county supported Trump, the more sharply their deaths went up.


This is from the journal, World Medical & Health Policy. It has many more numbers and charts. The numbers are earlier than the KFF numbers.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/wmh3.435

[REDSTATEWARD]

Biden says he was bound by terms in Afghanistan negotiated by Trump.
( laughable)

There you go. It is like the Status of Forces Agreement in Iraq: sure the Repos entered into an international agreement, but blame the Democrats for honoring it.

But
Trump repeatedly demonstrated that he was willing to use air power to protect U.S. personnel and to bomb an Islamic would-be caliphate.

As did the administration Joe Biden served as VP.

So the Taliban waited until Trump was gone.

More accurately, they waited for the date, NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, that we were to have our forces out, and when, AS NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, we had pledged to not interfere with their advance militarily, provided they did not shoot at us.

Imagine that.

Yes, international agreements have consequences. But it was the right thing to do when Trump negotiated it, and it is the right thing to do now.

Biden?

Clean up on aisle 4.

Whoosh!

The sound of a right wing talking point as it zips through your head without pausing for thought or fact check.

Oh the facts are very clear.
They seem to have eluded you.
Most notably that Biden extended the war past the Trump withdrawal date of May 1, first to September 11, then to August 31.
The Taliban considered the Trump negotiated date null and void and promptly took over the Country.

[kidcarter8]

That's a fascinating chart, Kid!


Informative, certainly

I know you meant to thank me

[Hairy Lime]

Biden says he was bound by terms in Afghanistan negotiated by Trump.
( laughable)

There you go. It is like the Status of Forces Agreement in Iraq: sure the Repos entered into an international agreement, but blame the Democrats for honoring it.

But
Trump repeatedly demonstrated that he was willing to use air power to protect U.S. personnel and to bomb an Islamic would-be caliphate.

As did the administration Joe Biden served as VP.

So the Taliban waited until Trump was gone.

More accurately, they waited for the date, NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, that we were to have our forces out, and when, AS NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, we had pledged to not interfere with their advance militarily, provided they did not shoot at us.

Imagine that.

Yes, international agreements have consequences. But it was the right thing to do when Trump negotiated it, and it is the right thing to do now.

Biden?

Clean up on aisle 4.

Whoosh!

The sound of a right wing talking point as it zips through your head without pausing for thought or fact check.

Oh the facts are very clear.
They seem to have eluded you.
Most notably that Biden extended the war past the Trump withdrawal date of May 1, first to September 11, then to August 31.
The Taliban considered the Trump negotiated date null and void and promptly took over the Country.

LOL. I am not sure you thought that through. Though it is nice you finally recognize that the Taliban coincided its military campaign with the date TRUMP NEGOTIATED FOR THE WITHDRAWAL OF US TROOPS.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Biden says he was bound by terms in Afghanistan negotiated by Trump.
( laughable)

There you go. It is like the Status of Forces Agreement in Iraq: sure the Repos entered into an international agreement, but blame the Democrats for honoring it.

But
Trump repeatedly demonstrated that he was willing to use air power to protect U.S. personnel and to bomb an Islamic would-be caliphate.

As did the administration Joe Biden served as VP.

So the Taliban waited until Trump was gone.

More accurately, they waited for the date, NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, that we were to have our forces out, and when, AS NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, we had pledged to not interfere with their advance militarily, provided they did not shoot at us.

Imagine that.

Yes, international agreements have consequences. But it was the right thing to do when Trump negotiated it, and it is the right thing to do now.

Biden?

Clean up on aisle 4.

Whoosh!

The sound of a right wing talking point as it zips through your head without pausing for thought or fact check.

Oh the facts are very clear.
They seem to have eluded you.
Most notably that Biden extended the war past the Trump withdrawal date of May 1, first to September 11, then to August 31.
The Taliban considered the Trump negotiated date null and void and promptly took over the Country.

LOL. I am not sure you thought that through. Though it is nice you finally recognize that the Taliban coincided its military campaign with the date TRUMP NEGOTIATED FOR THE WITHDRAWAL OF US TROOPS.

Yes of course.
And Biden did not honor it.
Of course. Neither would have Trump.
But Trump is gone.
And Joe was left holding the bag.
And he messed  it up and may have ruined his presidency.

[Hairy Lime]

Biden says he was bound by terms in Afghanistan negotiated by Trump.
( laughable)

There you go. It is like the Status of Forces Agreement in Iraq: sure the Repos entered into an international agreement, but blame the Democrats for honoring it.

But
Trump repeatedly demonstrated that he was willing to use air power to protect U.S. personnel and to bomb an Islamic would-be caliphate.

As did the administration Joe Biden served as VP.

So the Taliban waited until Trump was gone.

More accurately, they waited for the date, NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, that we were to have our forces out, and when, AS NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, we had pledged to not interfere with their advance militarily, provided they did not shoot at us.

Imagine that.

Yes, international agreements have consequences. But it was the right thing to do when Trump negotiated it, and it is the right thing to do now.

Biden?

Clean up on aisle 4.

Whoosh!

The sound of a right wing talking point as it zips through your head without pausing for thought or fact check.

Oh the facts are very clear.
They seem to have eluded you.
Most notably that Biden extended the war past the Trump withdrawal date of May 1, first to September 11, then to August 31.
The Taliban considered the Trump negotiated date null and void and promptly took over the Country.

LOL. I am not sure you thought that through. Though it is nice you finally recognize that the Taliban coincided its military campaign with the date TRUMP NEGOTIATED FOR THE WITHDRAWAL OF US TROOPS.

Yes of course.
And Biden did not honor it.
Of course. Neither would have Trump.
But Trump is gone.
And Joe was left holding the bag.

There is zero reason to believe Trump would not have behaved exactly as Biden did - except perhaps that he would have had the troops out sooner. And Biden had two choices when he took office: continue the withdrawal, or reescelate our troop involvement. He made the right choice, moving the date back to make sure we did it right.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Biden says he was bound by terms in Afghanistan negotiated by Trump.
( laughable)

There you go. It is like the Status of Forces Agreement in Iraq: sure the Repos entered into an international agreement, but blame the Democrats for honoring it.

But
Trump repeatedly demonstrated that he was willing to use air power to protect U.S. personnel and to bomb an Islamic would-be caliphate.

As did the administration Joe Biden served as VP.

So the Taliban waited until Trump was gone.

More accurately, they waited for the date, NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, that we were to have our forces out, and when, AS NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, we had pledged to not interfere with their advance militarily, provided they did not shoot at us.

Imagine that.

Yes, international agreements have consequences. But it was the right thing to do when Trump negotiated it, and it is the right thing to do now.

Biden?

Clean up on aisle 4.

Whoosh!

The sound of a right wing talking point as it zips through your head without pausing for thought or fact check.

Oh the facts are very clear.
They seem to have eluded you.
Most notably that Biden extended the war past the Trump withdrawal date of May 1, first to September 11, then to August 31.
The Taliban considered the Trump negotiated date null and void and promptly took over the Country.

LOL. I am not sure you thought that through. Though it is nice you finally recognize that the Taliban coincided its military campaign with the date TRUMP NEGOTIATED FOR THE WITHDRAWAL OF US TROOPS.

Yes of course.
And Biden did not honor it.
Of course. Neither would have Trump.
But Trump is gone.
And Joe was left holding the bag.

There is zero reason to believe Trump would not have behaved exactly as Biden did - except perhaps that he would have had the troops out sooner. And Biden had two choices when he took office: continue the withdrawal, or reescelate our troop involvement. He made the right choice, moving the date back to make sure we did it right.

Good for you standing alone in defense of Biden.
Blind loyalty sometimes has its rewards.
The facts destroy any rational such stance, but carry on.

[Holly Martins]

  Motherfucking Moderate Democrats trying snatch defeat... as usual:


I understand the concept of half a loaf is better than no loaf exception this situation getting the whole loaf is ENTIRELY WITHIN YOUR GRASP!

Stupid but normal for moderates who negotiated against themselves with the ACA and gave the nation half of what was needed and cost themselves the majority in the midterms of 2010...

We could use MMD as a new forum abbrev. -- like LPC.

However, I gotta say I do want to see some of the infra bill pass quickly, given its urgently needed boost to electrics, and to help with affordable housing.

I'm not sure this would really be half a loaf, with no hope of the other half.  It might actually grease the wheels a bit on the reconciliation upcoming. 

YMMV. 

[Holly Martins]

LOL. I am not sure you thought that through. Though it is nice you finally recognize that the Taliban coincided its military campaign with the date TRUMP NEGOTIATED FOR THE WITHDRAWAL OF US TROOPS.

Heh.  Biden can't win with those solely focused on owning him and not letting facts interfere. 

[kidcarter8]

6000 more troops and 6-8 months and we can get this thing done correctly.

Thoughts?

[Hairy Lime]

Biden says he was bound by terms in Afghanistan negotiated by Trump.
( laughable)

There you go. It is like the Status of Forces Agreement in Iraq: sure the Repos entered into an international agreement, but blame the Democrats for honoring it.

But
Trump repeatedly demonstrated that he was willing to use air power to protect U.S. personnel and to bomb an Islamic would-be caliphate.

As did the administration Joe Biden served as VP.

So the Taliban waited until Trump was gone.

More accurately, they waited for the date, NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, that we were to have our forces out, and when, AS NEGOTIATED BY TRUMP, we had pledged to not interfere with their advance militarily, provided they did not shoot at us.

Imagine that.

Yes, international agreements have consequences. But it was the right thing to do when Trump negotiated it, and it is the right thing to do now.

Biden?

Clean up on aisle 4.

Whoosh!

The sound of a right wing talking point as it zips through your head without pausing for thought or fact check.

Oh the facts are very clear.
They seem to have eluded you.
Most notably that Biden extended the war past the Trump withdrawal date of May 1, first to September 11, then to August 31.
The Taliban considered the Trump negotiated date null and void and promptly took over the Country.

LOL. I am not sure you thought that through. Though it is nice you finally recognize that the Taliban coincided its military campaign with the date TRUMP NEGOTIATED FOR THE WITHDRAWAL OF US TROOPS.

Yes of course.
And Biden did not honor it.
Of course. Neither would have Trump.
But Trump is gone.
And Joe was left holding the bag.

There is zero reason to believe Trump would not have behaved exactly as Biden did - except perhaps that he would have had the troops out sooner. And Biden had two choices when he took office: continue the withdrawal, or reescelate our troop involvement. He made the right choice, moving the date back to make sure we did it right.

Good for you standing alone in defense of Biden.
Blind loyalty sometimes has its rewards.
The facts destroy any rational such stance, but carry on.

Nope. Just looking at the facts to give credit and blame where it is due: to the Trump administration for the decision to withdraw troops and the Biden administration for honoring that decision.

The Biden administration should have been better prepared for the speed of the Taliban takeover. But that takeover was assured when we agreed to withdraw.

[Hairy Lime]

6000 more troops and 6-8 months and we can get this thing done correctly.

Thoughts?

What "thing"? What do you see those troops doing?

[Holly Martins]

6000 more troops and 6-8 months and we can get this thing done correctly.

Thoughts?

Might give the Taliban, especially the more unruly factions, an excuse to get more violent and make this more of a bloodbath.  Biden picked dates to show we're still honoring the basic spirit of the agreement.  I don't know - 6000 more troops for the better part of year and we might find ourselves in the middle of civil war going full-blast, and a lot more innocents blown to bits and corpses in gibbets on every Main St.  But I'm open to whatever reasoning you might have for how this would work and not be volatile as hell. 

[kidcarter8]

6000 more troops and 6-8 months and we can get this thing done correctly.

Thoughts?

What "thing"? What do you see those troops doing?

Exactly what the aim of the current forces is

With fewer risks

And without the tail between the legs appearance.