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Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: February 13, 2022, 10:41:25 PM

[Hamilton Samuels]

The initial point re Pedroia was the impact on his counting stats caused by his injuries. Basically he was done by age 33, Utley accumulated stats until he was close to 40.

Pedroia was the better hitter, fielder and player.

Utley hit more HRs.

Sure. Uh huh. Just ignore the WAR Stats in the ALL TIME LIST.

Homer.

[bankshot1]

The initial point re Pedroia was the impact on his counting stats caused by his injuries. Basically he was done by age 33, Utley accumulated stats until he was close to 40.

Pedroia was the better hitter, fielder and player.

Utley hit more HRs.

Sure. Uh huh. Just ignore the WAR Stats in the ALL TIME LIST.

Homer.

And speaking of homers Utley played half his games in the park typically ranked the easiset for HR.

Actually if you look at their WAR #s through age 33 (Pedroia's real end point) you'll find the WAR #s pretty close as Utley added 12.6 WAR points from 33-39, while Pedroia lost 0.7 in his last 2 injury shortened seasons.

So if you make that adjustment: 

Pedroia 51.6 +0.7= 52.3

Utley     64.4-12.6 = 51.8

Through a like period Pedroia's WAR was slightly higher.

[kidcarter8]

A Pedroia piece

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/dustin-pedroia-retires-will-he-make-hall-of-fame/

and one for Utley

https://www.thecoldwire.com/what-happened-to-chase-utley/

[kidcarter8]

Interesting quiz

TEN PLAYERS that played 40+% of their games at 2B, SS or 3B accumulated the following stats

.300 batting avg
150 HR
1000 RBI
2000 hits

I will give you Hornsby, Gehringer and Cronin,  The other SEVEN are more modern.  5 are Hall of Famers.  One very likely falls short.

[kidcarter8]

Utley Hall debate from same site as Pedroia piece

https://www.cooperstowncred.com/chase-utley-hall-of-fame-debate/

I like this website

[josh]

Interesting.  Nothing about defense there.  I must have missed it I guess.  I'm kind of surprised that a guy who yells and screams that using the DH isn't "real baseball" leaves out defense in his "analysis" of who's a better player.

If Utley could've played his career in the Bronx, with days off to just DH, you'd be singing a different tune.

It's defense was fine. But his leadership, ability to endure, hit for power, etc, are superior to Dustbin's.

I am sure that had he played in the Bronx, you, too, would be singing a different tune. Or Boston. ;-)

[Hamilton Samuels]

The initial point re Pedroia was the impact on his counting stats caused by his injuries. Basically he was done by age 33, Utley accumulated stats until he was close to 40.

Pedroia was the better hitter, fielder and player.

Utley hit more HRs.

Sure. Uh huh. Just ignore the WAR Stats in the ALL TIME LIST.

Homer.

And speaking of homers Utley played half his games in the park typically ranked the easiset for HR.

Actually if you look at their WAR #s through age 33 (Pedroia's real end point) you'll find the WAR #s pretty close as Utley added 12.6 WAR points from 33-39, while Pedroia lost 0.7 in his last 2 injury shortened seasons.

So if you make that adjustment: 

Pedroia 51.6 +0.7= 52.3

Utley     64.4-12.6 = 51.8

Through a like period Pedroia's WAR was slightly higher.

You always consider the career, not a portion of it.



And as a lefty, he would've loved Fenway.

[bankshot1]

HEH

The discussion was the better player.

And Pedroia was the better player.

Although Chase Utley had an edge in the 33-39 age time period.

[Hamilton Samuels]

From 2005 to 2011, he had 47.8 Fangraphs wins above replacement. The next-highest player, Dustin Pedroia, had 24.7. During this time, Utley also ranks first in OPS (.896) and wRC+ (134), second in home runs (173) and runs batted in (616), third in hits (1095), sixth in stolen bases (104), and seventh in batting average (.293).

Utley performed well in two World Series berths with the Phillies. He hit two home runs and drove in four runs in 2008.

Utley’s best playoff performance came in the 2009 World Series when he tied Reggie Jackson for the most home runs in a World Series with six. Even though his team lost, there was still talk of naming him the series MVP anyway.

[Hamilton Samuels]

HEH

The discussion was the better player.

And Pedroia was the better player.

Although Chase Utley had an edge in the 33-39 age time period.

Durability counts, especially when you want to say that one player is better than another. Offense counts. Defense counts.

So far you've shown no evidence to support your assertion that Dustbin was the "better player", other than to snip a portion of the careers to compare.

But, I just did the same thing here: "From 2005 to 2011, he had 47.8 Fangraphs wins above replacement. The next-highest player, Dustin Pedroia, had 24.7. During this time, Utley also ranks first in OPS (.896) and wRC+ (134), second in home runs (173) and runs batted in (616), third in hits (1095)..."

And you canNOT counter these facts:

JAWS.

  Utley's number 11, ALL-TIME.

Dustbin? 9 places behind.

WAR. Utley is number 15 ALL TIME. Dustbin? 22.

dWAR? Utley #11, ALLTIME. Dustbin? 17.

oWAR? Utley is #17 ALLTIME. Dustbin? 32.


Like Dustbin all you want, but you have to show he was the "better player".

[kidcarter8]

From 2005 to 2011, he had 47.8 Fangraphs wins above replacement. The next-highest player, Dustin Pedroia, had 24.7. During this time, Utley also ranks first in OPS (.896) and wRC+ (134), second in home runs (173) and runs batted in (616), third in hits (1095), sixth in stolen bases (104), and seventh in batting average (.293).

Utley performed well in two World Series berths with the Phillies. He hit two home runs and drove in four runs in 2008.

Utley’s best playoff performance came in the 2009 World Series when he tied Reggie Jackson for the most home runs in a World Series with six. Even though his team lost, there was still talk of naming him the series MVP anyway.

Cano was 29.3 from 2005-2011

Then added another 21.3 the following 3 seasons.

Likely the better comp to Utley.

[kidcarter8]

WAR2 (aka "at their best")

Utley 17.2
Cano 16.5
Pedroia 14.9
Alomar 14.7
Kent 14.3
Whitaker 13.5
Kinsler 13.0

[bankshot1]

Uno

From 2005 to 2011, he had 47.8 Fangraphs wins above replacement. The next-highest player, Dustin Pedroia, had 24.7

[/size]

The above comp of Utley and Pedroia from 2005 are great!

One problem though, Pedroia's rookie season was 2007.

If you're going to cherry pick at least give poor Dustin his fair share of cherries!!

LMAO

So far you've shown no evidence to support your assertion that Dustbin was the "better player", other than to snip a portion of the careers to compare.

Not true-I used Pedroia's far higher batting average, OBP, 4 gold gloves to support my opinion of Pedroia as a better player.

I did admit that Utley was probably a better player than Pedroia from ages 33-39.

YMMV

happy motoring!

[Hairy Lime]

God but I yearn for tne days of Nomar/Jeter debates.

[bankshot1]

God but I yearn for tne days of Nomar/Jeter debates.

I too wish for a return to the simpler times of some 20+ years ago, where I didn't wake up every 3 hours to...

TMI