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Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: February 13, 2022, 10:41:25 PM

[josh]

The HOF simply has no true standards for admission; an irrefutable fact.

Which still doesn't obscure the fact that Jamie Moyer's record doesn't match up.

[bankshot1]

You know banks has had his ass kicked when he posts 3500 off topic words laced with insults regarding posters who aren't even in the conversation.

Heh


The HOF simply has no true standards for admission; an irrefutable fact.

Utley the reason you have posted under a few hundred different names is that I've kicked your ass under each one and you needed a new one.

And I need new shoes that aren't covered in troll dung and vomit.

You're just butt sore you got bested again in the same debate you insist on losing.

And no shit there is no standard, its up to 400 voters to decide on an individual basis to detemine whether a player is HoF worthy.

what standard would be applicable for a mediocre pitcher like Moyer to qualify for a Hall that extols excellence in the profession?

And fwiw the 5 guys I listed (1 Hof, 1 likely) were all vastly superior pitchers to Moyer.

And I had high hopes for 2021

SSDD

[kidcarter8]

The HOF simply has no true standards for admission; an irrefutable fact.


...and has never stated they did.

[Hamilton Samuels]

The HOF simply has no true standards for admission; an irrefutable fact.

Which still doesn't obscure the fact that Jamie Moyer's record doesn't match up.

Don't let others confuse you. Of course, you can't match up to a standard-less arbitrary system.

[Hamilton Samuels]

You know banks has had his ass kicked when he posts 3500 off topic words laced with insults regarding posters who aren't even in the conversation.

Heh


The HOF simply has no true standards for admission; an irrefutable fact.

Utley the reason you have posted under a few hundred different names is that I've kicked your ass under each one and you needed a new one.

And I need new shoes that aren't covered in troll dung and vomit.

You're just butt sore you got bested again in the same debate you insist on losing.

And no shit there is no standard, its up to 400 voters to decide on an individual basis to detemine whether a player is HoF worthy.

what standard would be applicable for a mediocre pitcher like Moyer to qualify for a Hall that extols excellence in the profession?

And fwiw the 5 guys I listed (1 Hof, 1 likely) were all vastly superior pitchers to Moyer.

And I had high hopes for 2021

SSDD

thanks for proving my point. You could just admit when you're so confused. Who said that standards would put Moyer in?

Not me.

That's on you. Seeing things that aren't there. Do you hear voices, too?

Lots of counsel for that in your area, Rich.

Given that there are no standards, a case could be made for Moyer, as has been posted here already. Is it a solid case? Is it a convincing case? Well, at least as convincing as Bill Mazeroski had or Scooter Rizzuto because there are simply no standards.

After over a century of baseball, it seems hard to believe that there isn't enough statistical data to determine who qualifies as a HOFer at SS or 3B or P or C or 2B or...

But that's not how it's done. And there is no legitimate reason why it isn't done that way. Other than the fact that the writers couldn't "create the news", anymore.

They'd have to report it.

And what kind of sportswriting would that make?

 

[bankshot1]

You know banks has had his ass kicked when he posts 3500 off topic words laced with insults regarding posters who aren't even in the conversation.

Heh


The HOF simply has no true standards for admission; an irrefutable fact.

Utley the reason you have posted under a few hundred different names is that I've kicked your ass under each one and you needed a new one.

And I need new shoes that aren't covered in troll dung and vomit.

You're just butt sore you got bested again in the same debate you insist on losing.

And no shit there is no standard, its up to 400 voters to decide on an individual basis to detemine whether a player is HoF worthy.

what standard would be applicable for a mediocre pitcher like Moyer to qualify for a Hall that extols excellence in the profession?

And fwiw the 5 guys I listed (1 Hof, 1 likely) were all vastly superior pitchers to Moyer.

And I had high hopes for 2021

SSDD

thanks for proving my point. You could just admit when you're so confused. Who said that standards would put Moyer in?

Not me.

That's on you. Seeing things that aren't there. Do you hear voices, too?

Lots of counsel for that in your area, Rich.

LMAO

the troll is trolling from both sides of his ass.

1) the troll wants a standard for entry to the exclusive HoF

but

2) the troll who desperately wants Moyer in the HoF can not articulate a standard which even the medicre Moyer can meet  (ie there is no standard)

the hypocrisy is so apparent except to iur inarticulate troll

when pressed the troll denies the false narrative that he has adopted

TFF

and when he gets spun like a top he complains about the BBWAA

all because....

we'll leave that for the troll and his therapist to work out


LMAO

troll you prove your idiocy and inability to articulate the simplest of ideas.

I warned you that you were falling into a bottomless pit of hypocrisy and stupidity.

and one of your own making.

SSDD

[josh]

The HOF simply has no true standards for admission; an irrefutable fact.

Which still doesn't obscure the fact that Jamie Moyer's record doesn't match up.

Don't let others confuse you. Of course, you can't match up to a standard-less arbitrary system.

I responded on my own days ago with comparison stats that highlight that Moyer doesn't belong even in the somewhat but not totally arbitrary Hall.

And it's not totally arbitrary, even though you say it is.

[kidcarter8]

Given that there are no standards, a case could be made for Moyer, as has been posted here already. Is it a solid case? Is it a convincing case? Well, at least as convincing as Bill Mazeroski had or Scooter Rizzuto


Disagree

[Hamilton Samuels]

I see wankspot is still spinning away.

Behave as expected.

[Hamilton Samuels]

The HOF simply has no true standards for admission; an irrefutable fact.

Which still doesn't obscure the fact that Jamie Moyer's record doesn't match up.

Don't let others confuse you. Of course, you can't match up to a standard-less arbitrary system.

I responded on my own days ago with comparison stats that highlight that Moyer doesn't belong even in the somewhat but not totally arbitrary Hall.

And it's not totally arbitrary, even though you say it is.

By all means, post the standards used by the writers for HOF admission players.

[bankshot1]

The standard

2. Electors: Only active and honorary members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America, who have been active baseball writers for at least ten (10) years, shall be eligible to vote. They must have been active as baseball writers and members of the Association for a period beginning at least ten (10) years prior to the date of election in which they are voting.


3. Eligible Candidates -- Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:

A. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning fifteen (15) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.

B. Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3(A).

C. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.

D. In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.

E. Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.

4. Method of Election:

A. BBWAA Screening Committee -- A Screening Committee consisting of baseball writers will be appointed by the BBWAA. This Screening Committee shall consist of six members, with two members to be elected at each Annual Meeting for a three-year term. The duty of the Screening Committee shall be to prepare a ballot listing in alphabetical order eligible candidates who (1) received a vote on a minimum of five percent (5%) of the ballots cast in the preceding election or (2) are eligible for the first time and are nominated by any two of the six members of the BBWAA Screening Committee.

B. An elector will vote for no more than ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted.

C. Any candidate receiving votes on seventy-five percent (75%) of the ballots cast shall be elected to membership in the National Baseball Hall of Fame.


https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/rules/bbwaa-rules-for-election

[josh]

The HOF simply has no true standards for admission; an irrefutable fact.

Which still doesn't obscure the fact that Jamie Moyer's record doesn't match up.

Don't let others confuse you. Of course, you can't match up to a standard-less arbitrary system.

If that were the case, then your argument is even more meritless than it was before.

By what you have said,
a) Using others' statistics to try to make a point is absurd on your part;
and
b) Moyer definitely does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame and there is no effective argument available to you.

[Hamilton Samuels]

The standard

2. Electors: Only active and honorary members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America, who have been active baseball writers for at least ten (10) years, shall be eligible to vote. They must have been active as baseball writers and members of the Association for a period beginning at least ten (10) years prior to the date of election in which they are voting.


3. Eligible Candidates -- Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:

A. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning fifteen (15) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.

B. Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3(A).

C. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.

D. In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.

E. Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.

4. Method of Election:

A. BBWAA Screening Committee -- A Screening Committee consisting of baseball writers will be appointed by the BBWAA. This Screening Committee shall consist of six members, with two members to be elected at each Annual Meeting for a three-year term. The duty of the Screening Committee shall be to prepare a ballot listing in alphabetical order eligible candidates who (1) received a vote on a minimum of five percent (5%) of the ballots cast in the preceding election or (2) are eligible for the first time and are nominated by any two of the six members of the BBWAA Screening Committee.

B. An elector will vote for no more than ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted.

C. Any candidate receiving votes on seventy-five percent (75%) of the ballots cast shall be elected to membership in the National Baseball Hall of Fame.


https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/rules/bbwaa-rules-for-election

Those are not standards.  When I say standards, I am looking for an evaluation system that employs something similar to this:

Evaluation standards identify how the quality of an evaluation will be judged.  They can be used when planning an evaluation as well as for meta-evaluation (evaluating the evaluation).

Many organizations have guidelines which address issues of quality and ethics together.  For example, the UNDP (United Nations Development Programme) Norms for Evaluation state that evaluation in UNDP should be:

Independent — Management must not impose restrictions on the scope, content, comments and recommendations of evaluation reports. Evaluators must be free of conflict of interest.

Intentional — The rationale for an evaluation and the decisions to be based on it should be clear from the outset.

Transparent — Meaningful consultation with stakeholders is essential for the credibility and utility of the evaluation.

Ethical — Evaluation should not reflect personal or sectoral interests. Evaluators must have professional integrity, respect the rights of institutions and individuals to provide information in confidence, and be sensitive to the beliefs and customs of local social and cultural environments.

Impartial — Removing bias and maximizing objectivity are critical for the credibility of the evaluation and its contribution to knowledge.
 

[bankshot1]

The standard

2. Electors: Only active and honorary members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America, who have been active baseball writers for at least ten (10) years, shall be eligible to vote. They must have been active as baseball writers and members of the Association for a period beginning at least ten (10) years prior to the date of election in which they are voting.


3. Eligible Candidates -- Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:

A. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning fifteen (15) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.

B. Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3(A).

C. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.

D. In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.

E. Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.

4. Method of Election:

A. BBWAA Screening Committee -- A Screening Committee consisting of baseball writers will be appointed by the BBWAA. This Screening Committee shall consist of six members, with two members to be elected at each Annual Meeting for a three-year term. The duty of the Screening Committee shall be to prepare a ballot listing in alphabetical order eligible candidates who (1) received a vote on a minimum of five percent (5%) of the ballots cast in the preceding election or (2) are eligible for the first time and are nominated by any two of the six members of the BBWAA Screening Committee.

B. An elector will vote for no more than ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted.

C. Any candidate receiving votes on seventy-five percent (75%) of the ballots cast shall be elected to membership in the National Baseball Hall of Fame.


https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/rules/bbwaa-rules-for-election

Those are not standards.  When I say standards, I am looking for an evaluation system that employs something similar to this:

Evaluation standards identify how the quality of an evaluation will be judged.  They can be used when planning an evaluation as well as for meta-evaluation (evaluating the evaluation).

Many organizations have guidelines which address issues of quality and ethics together.  For example, the UNDP (United Nations Development Programme) Norms for Evaluation state that evaluation in UNDP should be:

Independent — Management must not impose restrictions on the scope, content, comments and recommendations of evaluation reports. Evaluators must be free of conflict of interest.

Intentional — The rationale for an evaluation and the decisions to be based on it should be clear from the outset.

Transparent — Meaningful consultation with stakeholders is essential for the credibility and utility of the evaluation.

Ethical — Evaluation should not reflect personal or sectoral interests. Evaluators must have professional integrity, respect the rights of institutions and individuals to provide information in confidence, and be sensitive to the beliefs and customs of local social and cultural environments.

Impartial — Removing bias and maximizing objectivity are critical for the credibility of the evaluation and its contribution to knowledge.
 

There is basically one standard- 10 years of MLB service.

The rest is left to the opinions of some 400 independent voters from all over the US and the world.

The BBWAA is likely the most knowledgable, impartial, conflict-free, diversifed body to make an assessment of HoF entry and it requires 75% agreement.

As discussed for years, they have carried out this task with a minimum of disagreement over selection for decades, and there are very few qualified candidates left out of the HoF.

However surprisingly those few cases seem all to have played for the Phillies.

heh

I'm sure the UN could do a nifty job pinch-hitting applying its boiler-plate for the demonstrated expertise of the BBWAA.

The prior points remain, you want a standard yet when pushed to provide something of value, you talk of Moyers "artistry" and compare him to a wine,

Those aren't standards.

The're more like whines, and the source is hardly rare.

And when you've stomped your sour grapes, to borrow from another sport, you punt.

heh

[kidcarter8]

b) Moyer definitely does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame and there is no effective argument available to you.


Saberhagen more deserving