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Russia will gain eastern Ukraine territories and hold them, as it has Crimea

5 (45.5%)

Russia will temporarily gain eastern Ukraine territories before being forced out of them

2 (18.2%)

Efforts to confront the Russian forces and get them out of Ukraine will lead to Putin's escalating and attacking NATO countries directly with missiles or other destructive measures

0 (0%)

The NATO/World response will be so mild that Putin will go ahead and take the rest of Ukraine

3 (27.3%)

Today Ukraine, tomorrow Moldova and who knows where else

1 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: March 01, 2022, 01:18:43 PM

[bambu.]

Most of the so-called "good people of Russia" seem not to care less about Russia's invasion of Ukraine...and many seem to enthusiastically support it.
That Church leader for one.
Time to get serious about punishing Russia and Russian people in Russia.
If people in Russia are forced to eat grass to survive, and jump up and down for heating, they might just get angry enough to kill Putin and everyone in the Kremlin.
Or kidnap generals and thereby control the military.

[facilitatorn]

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3/16/2086298/--We-cannot-be-dfeated-per-Zelenskyy-electricity-now-flows-freely-from-Lisbon-to-Mariupol

Leverage.

Russia has to wonder now if they ever switch back. I do not see why the Ukrainians would want to even if the Russians packed their bags and went home today.

[facilitatorn]

Most of the so-called "good people of Russia" seem not to care less about Russia's invasion of Ukraine...and many seem to enthusiastically support it.
That Church leader for one.
Time to get serious about punishing Russia and Russian people in Russia.
If people in Russia are forced to eat grass to survive, and jump up and down for heating, they might just get angry enough to kill Putin and everyone in the Kremlin.
Or kidnap generals and thereby control the military.

Busting through the information silo is a prerequisite for their being any domestic checks on Russian  policy. Busting through authoritarian information silos is the core life blood of freedom in the world.

Ruination on Rupert Murdoch and all of his vile works!

[facilitatorn]

http://www.vice.com/en/article/5dg45q/ukraine-russia-bombed-theater-hundreds-sheltering

[FlyingVProd]

As Russians see the suffering that Putin is imposing on the world then we need for the good humanitarians to rise to the top and remove Putin and take over Russia. Pope Francis is on the radio right now sending his message to the people of Russia. And the idea of a modern Knights Templar might not be so crazy.

Salute,

Tony V.

[luee]

Putin is following the path of Hitler. Diplomacy does not work, too late. A drone upon the head works every time. We don't execute heads of state?

The number of ways that this is not "the path of Hitler" is greater than the ways in which it is.

Main difference is up to now no concentration camps. Invasion of a soverign nation, check. Indiscriminate bombing, check. Shelling civilian targets, check. Diplomatic efforts useless, check. An unhinged autocratic leader, check. Homeless moving around, check.

No, while the concentration camp difference is stark, there is no specific targeted population  - not the Jews, not the Romani, not the gays...

The invasion of Poland was done in collaboration with Russia and they agreed to split it.

From the US Holocaust Museum:

Britain and France, standing by their guarantee of Poland's border, declared war on Germany on September 3, 1939. After the defeat of Polish forces, German authorities began enforcing their racial policies in the occupied territories. They required Jews to identify themselves by wearing white armbands with a blue Star of David and conscripted them for forced-labor. They expelled hundreds of thousands of Poles from their homes and settled more than 500,000 ethnic Germans in their place.

There was no guarantee of Ukraine's borders and therefore no declaration of war against Russia. We're seeing no conscription of Jews or other Ukrainian people for forced labor. And there is no move, at this juncture, to settle ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

But Luee, the biggest difference lies in the 6 years prior to the invasion.

The second biggest difference is in the efficiency of the Russian army.
[/quote ]

Russia was involved in wars in Chechnya and Syria, Germany in Spain. Makes no difference how efficient an army is if you can bluff your way to victories until you become stronger. Germany was easily beatable until Czechoslovakia and Austria was given away. Main difference is the crazy racial theories of the Nazis. A surgical strike against Putin would do wonderous things as would have a successful assassination of Hitler in the early 30s.

[bambu.]

http://www.vice.com/en/article/5dg45q/ukraine-russia-bombed-theater-hundreds-sheltering

Yes.
More slaughter.
41 million people in Ukraine being systemtically exterminated by Russians, not Putin alone.
One theatre, one town, one city at a time.
It's a shooting gallery basically.

The theatre was just shown on my tv.
Then Ukrainian babies, all rugged up against the cold were shown.
They'll likely be next up for slaughtering by the Russians.
Babies' limbs and heads will be flying everywhere as the
Russian bombs and missiles, fired by Russians, explode.

[FlyingVProd]

When people are called upon to be heroes, then they forget to be afraid, the need to remove Putin and to save the innocent people will become so great that they will rush in and remove Putin, then they can have a Junta and then free elections in Russia. Certainly the leaders who solve the crisis will be held in high esteem, like George Washington, and Lech Walesa were with the issues they were faced with.

The Pope is on the radio now, talking to the Russians. Certainly the Pope is telling the good Russians to rise up and stop the war.

Salute,

Tony V.

[LarryBnDC]

Most of the so-called "good people of Russia" seem not to care less about Russia's invasion of Ukraine...and many seem to enthusiastically support it.
That Church leader for one.
Time to get serious about punishing Russia and Russian people in Russia.
If people in Russia are forced to eat grass to survive, and jump up and down for heating, they might just get angry enough to kill Putin and everyone in the Kremlin.
Or kidnap generals and thereby control the military.

Damn!

You sound like Dr. Evil...

[LarryBnDC]

http://www.vice.com/en/article/5dg45q/ukraine-russia-bombed-theater-hundreds-sheltering

Standard Operating Procedure for Putin

[bambu.]

When people are called upon to be heroes, then they forget to be afraid, the need to remove Putin and to save the innocent people will become so great that they will rush in and remove Putin, then they can have a Junta and then free elections in Russia. Certainly the leaders who solve the crisis will be held in high esteem, like George Washington, and Lech Walesa were with the issues they were faced with.

The Pope is on the radio now, talking to the Russians. Certainly the Pope is telling the good Russians to rise up and stop the war.

Salute,

Tony V.

Don't seem to be many 'good Russians'...but maybe they're too afraid to say or do anything against the communist govt lest they disappear never to be seen again.

 "Look after yourself first in this world, son...because nobody else will".

[josh]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/16/business/russia-aircraft-seizure/index.html

[facilitatorn]

Do moves like that attract or repel investment in the longer term?

Based on their upkeep on trucks and tanks, how long before those seized planes start dropping from the sky on the routes they are still permitted to fly, basically over Russia?

[Holly Martins]

I wondered that.  If spare parts are blocked, Aeroflot will be grounding more planes.  Of course, as domestic economy shrinks there will be far fewer flyers. 

[Holly Martins]

Russians have more in Swiss banks than previously thought.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russians-have-up-213-billion-stashed-offshore-swiss-banks-2022-03-17/

Freezing all that, you're talking real money.