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Outcome of the Trump trial in the Senate

McConnell moves for dismissal before any testimony
- 0 (0%)
McConnell moves for acquittal before any testimony.
- 2 (25%)
The Senate listens to the case as put on by the House prosecutors and the Trump legal team, then acquits Trump
- 6 (75%)
The Senate listens to the case as put on by the House prosecutors and the Trump legal team, then censures Trump
- 0 (0%)
The Senate listens to the case as put on by the House prosecutors and the Trump legal team, then convicts and removes Trump from office
- 0 (0%)
Trump resigns before the trial is over
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Voting closes: Today at 10:10:12 PM


Pages: 1 ... 1101 1102 [1103] 1104 1105 ... 1673

Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 224749 times)

luee

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16530 on: July 12, 2019, 10:09:05 AM »

Tony.

Quote
I wanted Marco Rubio for President of the USA, and I think that Marco would have been much better than Trump,     

Our cats have gagged up hairballs that would have been much better than Trump.

Reagan you love?   

Reagan slashed federal money to schools by a billion dollars. 

As a president who said "trees cause more pollution than automobiles do," Reagan issued leases for oil, gas, and coal development on tens of millions of acres of national lands. Reagan's appointee to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Anne Gorsuch, tried to gut the 1972 Clean Water Act, cut EPA funding by 25%, and mismanaged a $1.6 billion program to clean up hazardous waste dumps.

He spent 33 billion dollars on SDI, the "Star Wars" ray gun program that never worked.

Reagan believed that widespread freeloading plagued welfare and social programs. As Reagan slashed spending in his first term on programs such as food stamps and subsidized housing, the poverty rate climbed from 12% to 15% and unemployment rose from 7% to 11%.

Reagan broke his own vows not to make deals with terrorists or states that aided them. In the "Iran-Contra" scandal, Reagan's administration bypassed congressional restrictions on aiding Nicaragua's Contra guerilla fighters, in part by diverting money to them from the sale of missiles to Iran.

Reagan pledged during his 1980 campaign for president to balance the federal budget, but never submitted a balanced budget in his eight years in office. In 1981, the deficit was $79 billion and, in 1986, at the peak of his deficit spending, it stood at $221 billion. The federal debt was $994 billion when he took office in 1981 and grew to $2.9 trillion when his second term ended in 1989.

Yeah, "great" president!
He taxed unemployment benefits!
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REDSTATEWARD

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16531 on: July 12, 2019, 10:34:52 AM »

The fact that it ended is not in dispute.   Your assertion that SDI caused the dissolution of the CCCP is what is being challenged.   

I'll wait.
That train left the station 30 years ago. 
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Hairy Lime

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16532 on: July 12, 2019, 10:44:50 AM »


As for SDI it effectively ended the Soviet Union.

Nonsense.   Feel free to provide evidence for your absurd talking point.
Who is the current President of the Soviet Union?
Non sequitur! 15 - love.
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Hairy Lime

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16533 on: July 12, 2019, 10:46:45 AM »

The fact that it ended is not in dispute.   Your assertion that SDI caused the dissolution of the CCCP is what is being challenged.   

I'll wait.
That train left the station 30 years ago.
So you admit there is no evidence to support the causal relationship between SDI and the collapse.of the Soviet Empire but lack the intellectual bravery to admit it. Behave as expected.
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REDSTATEWARD

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16534 on: July 12, 2019, 11:19:21 AM »

The fact that it ended is not in dispute.   Your assertion that SDI caused the dissolution of the CCCP is what is being challenged.   

I'll wait.
That train left the station 30 years ago.
So you admit there is no evidence to support the causal relationship between SDI and the collapse.of the Soviet Empire but lack the intellectual bravery to admit it. Behave as expected.
LOL
SDI was a lynchpin in Reaganís Defense buildup.  An important factor in the Reagan Doctrineóthat America would come to the aid of freedom fighters to throw off Soviet tyranny. It ended the Brezhnev Doctrine, which claimed that all socialist countries would fight any effort to introduce capitalism on their turf.
Gorbachev with all of his attempts to save the Soviet Union finally understood  the obvious:  the Soviet Union was so far behind in the Arms Race it had no choice but to just go away.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 11:21:04 AM by REDSTATEWARD »
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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16535 on: July 12, 2019, 12:15:56 PM »

The fact that it ended is not in dispute.   Your assertion that SDI caused the dissolution of the CCCP is what is being challenged.   

I'll wait.
That train left the station 30 years ago.
So you admit there is no evidence to support the causal relationship between SDI and the collapse.of the Soviet Empire but lack the intellectual bravery to admit it. Behave as expected.
LOL
SDI was a lynchpin in Reaganís Defense buildup.  An important factor in the Reagan Doctrineóthat America would come to the aid of freedom fighters to throw off Soviet tyranny. It ended the Brezhnev Doctrine, which claimed that all socialist countries would fight any effort to introduce capitalism on their turf.
Gorbachev with all of his attempts to save the Soviet Union finally understood  the obvious:  the Soviet Union was so far behind in the Arms Race it had no choice but to just go away.

The Soviets committed suicide in Afghanistan. They were done. SDI was seen as Reagan gearing up a first strike weapon and Soviet hawks wanted to respond in kind but those dumb fucks had blown up their globsl strategy and leverage in Afghanistan so they could nothing else but fold.

Fast forward thirty years and the President of Russia in dealing with USA has zero economic power, zero military power and yet is winning the ideological battle because his best asset for defeating the USA is the President of The USA.

Slowly but almost surely Putin is becoming the President ofva reconstituted Soviet Union.
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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16536 on: July 12, 2019, 12:38:53 PM »

The fact that it ended is not in dispute.   Your assertion that SDI caused the dissolution of the CCCP is what is being challenged.   

I'll wait.
That train left the station 30 years ago.
So you admit there is no evidence to support the causal relationship between SDI and the collapse.of the Soviet Empire but lack the intellectual bravery to admit it. Behave as expected.
LOL
SDI was a lynchpin in Reaganís Defense buildup.  An important factor in the Reagan Doctrineóthat America would come to the aid of freedom fighters to throw off Soviet tyranny. It ended the Brezhnev Doctrine, which claimed that all socialist countries would fight any effort to introduce capitalism on their turf.
Gorbachev with all of his attempts to save the Soviet Union finally understood  the obvious:  the Soviet Union was so far behind in the Arms Race it had no choice but to just go away.

You can keep saying the same thing, but you still haven't really shown how SDI was a linchpin or THE linchpin (not sure what a "lynchpin" is, unless it's a sharp object you find in some salad dressings).  The collapse was far more about economics than intimidation by Ray Guns (pun intended).  Here's part of an essay by a historian, based on CIA and DOS documents from that period:

Quote
During the 1960s and 1970s, the Communist Party elite rapidly gained wealth and power while millions of average Soviet citizens faced starvation. The Soviet Unionís push to industrialize at any cost resulted in frequent shortages of food and consumer goods. Bread lines were common throughout the 1970s and 1980s. Soviet citizens often did not have access to basic needs, such as clothing or shoes.

The divide between the extreme wealth of the Politburo and the poverty of Soviet citizens created a backlash from younger people who refused to adopt Communist Party ideology as their parents had.

The USSR also faced foreign attacks on the Soviet economy. In the 1980s, the United States under President Ronald Reagan isolated the Soviet economy from the rest of the world and helped drive oil prices to their lowest levels in decades. When the Soviet Unionís oil and gas revenue dropped dramatically, the USSR began to lose its hold on Eastern Europe.

Meanwhile, Gorbachevís reforms were slow to bear fruit and did more to hasten the collapse of the Soviet Union than to help it. A loosening of controls over the Soviet people emboldened independence movements in the Soviet satellites of Eastern Europe.

Political revolution in Poland in 1989 sparked other, mostly peaceful revolutions across Eastern European states and led to the toppling of the Berlin Wall. By the end of 1989, the USSR had come apart at the seams.

An unsuccessful coup by Communist Party hard-liners in August 1991 sealed the Soviet Unionís fate by diminishing Gorbachevís power and propelling democratic forces, led by Boris Yeltsin, to the forefront of Russian politics.

Source:

https://www.history.com/topics/russia/history-of-the-soviet-union#section_8

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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16537 on: July 12, 2019, 12:45:18 PM »

Also eagerly await your explanation of how Reagan knew what he was doing blowing giant holes in the budget, one of the points in my OP on the topic.  Let me repost it for you:

Quote
Reagan pledged during his 1980 campaign for president to balance the federal budget, but never submitted a balanced budget in his eight years in office. In 1981, the deficit was $79 billion and, in 1986, at the peak of his deficit spending, it stood at $221 billion. The federal debt was $994 billion when he took office in 1981 and grew to $2.9 trillion when his second term ended in 1989.

Golly but that sounds familiar!  Maybe history does rhyme, like ol' Sam Clemens said.



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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16538 on: July 12, 2019, 01:17:35 PM »

http://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/congratulations-again-mr-president-trump-and-the-co-opting-of-the-gop

Canít trust the bootlicks to get economics or history right. Theyíre nothing more than puppets to a puppet.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16539 on: July 12, 2019, 01:25:37 PM »

Acosta swept out with the rest of the trash. Now heís free, R Kelly is hoping Acosta winds up leading the prosecution against him. Itís more likely they wind up sharing a cell. The CBP head is soon to join crooked Alex in the White House midden for being a devotee to the famous fascist Facebook group. Citizenship question is dead as well.

No one looses like the GOP.
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16540 on: July 12, 2019, 01:29:29 PM »

Fast forward thirty years and the President of Russia in dealing with USA has zero economic power, zero military power and yet is winning the ideological battle because his best asset for defeating the USA is the President of The USA.

Slowly but almost surely Putin is becoming the President of a reconstituted Soviet Union.

Putin has lots of oil and mineral wealth.
Leverage over Europe, dependent on Russian natural gas.
A strong enough military to save Assad in Syria and steal the Crimea from Ukraine.  Not to mention taking over the Eastern edge of Ukraine, securing chunks of Georgia and Moldova, while keeping their foot on the throats of Chechnya and Dagestan.
While maintaining a menace towards the Baltics.

And not as the Soviet Union.  Russia very unlikely to incorporate all those -stans and former republics again.  Or to have satellites in Eastern Europe.  Maybe Belarus would join Russia for old times sake.  Putin is powerful and dangerous, but it's Russia +, not nearly the old Soviet Union +.
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REDSTATEWARD

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16541 on: July 12, 2019, 01:30:28 PM »

The fact that it ended is not in dispute.   Your assertion that SDI caused the dissolution of the CCCP is what is being challenged.   

I'll wait.
That train left the station 30 years ago.
So you admit there is no evidence to support the causal relationship between SDI and the collapse.of the Soviet Empire but lack the intellectual bravery to admit it. Behave as expected.
LOL
SDI was a lynchpin in Reaganís Defense buildup.  An important factor in the Reagan Doctrineóthat America would come to the aid of freedom fighters to throw off Soviet tyranny. It ended the Brezhnev Doctrine, which claimed that all socialist countries would fight any effort to introduce capitalism on their turf.
Gorbachev with all of his attempts to save the Soviet Union finally understood  the obvious:  the Soviet Union was so far behind in the Arms Race it had no choice but to just go away.

You can keep saying the same thing, but you still haven't really shown how SDI was a linchpin or THE linchpin (not sure what a "lynchpin" is, unless it's a sharp object you find in some salad dressings).  The collapse was far more about economics than intimidation by Ray Guns (pun intended).  Here's part of an essay by a historian, based on CIA and DOS documents from that period:

Quote
During the 1960s and 1970s, the Communist Party elite rapidly gained wealth and power while millions of average Soviet citizens faced starvation. The Soviet Unionís push to industrialize at any cost resulted in frequent shortages of food and consumer goods. Bread lines were common throughout the 1970s and 1980s. Soviet citizens often did not have access to basic needs, such as clothing or shoes.

The divide between the extreme wealth of the Politburo and the poverty of Soviet citizens created a backlash from younger people who refused to adopt Communist Party ideology as their parents had.

The USSR also faced foreign attacks on the Soviet economy. In the 1980s, the United States under President Ronald Reagan isolated the Soviet economy from the rest of the world and helped drive oil prices to their lowest levels in decades. When the Soviet Unionís oil and gas revenue dropped dramatically, the USSR began to lose its hold on Eastern Europe.

Meanwhile, Gorbachevís reforms were slow to bear fruit and did more to hasten the collapse of the Soviet Union than to help it. A loosening of controls over the Soviet people emboldened independence movements in the Soviet satellites of Eastern Europe.

Political revolution in Poland in 1989 sparked other, mostly peaceful revolutions across Eastern European states and led to the toppling of the Berlin Wall. By the end of 1989, the USSR had come apart at the seams.

An unsuccessful coup by Communist Party hard-liners in August 1991 sealed the Soviet Unionís fate by diminishing Gorbachevís power and propelling democratic forces, led by Boris Yeltsin, to the forefront of Russian politics.

Source:

https://www.history.com/topics/russia/history-of-the-soviet-union#section_8
If you want to pursue some other line of reasoning go right ahead. It hardly changes the facts, easily researchable from leaders of oppressed Iron Curtain countries, that the primary reason behind the fall of the Soviet Union was the collapse of Brezhnev Doctrine. And oneWestern leader above all others forced the Soviets to give it up and abandon the arms race, brought down the Berlin Wall, and ended the Cold War at the bargaining table and not on the battlefield: President Ronald Reagan.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 01:37:51 PM by REDSTATEWARD »
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16542 on: July 12, 2019, 01:33:23 PM »

Tony, not only are many older ex-industrial cities hurting and in need of an infusion of talent and energy.

But many small towns in the countryside have been all but abandoned.  There are towns out on the prairies that will give a lot of land to anyone willing to build a home.   Many have very cheap houses available.  New immigrants could breathe new life into some of these old dying farm towns.  I assume many/some of these immigrants from central america have done farm labor, and would be willing to make a go of it in the US.
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Hairy Lime

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16543 on: July 12, 2019, 02:14:14 PM »

The fact that it ended is not in dispute.   Your assertion that SDI caused the dissolution of the CCCP is what is being challenged.   

I'll wait.
That train left the station 30 years ago.
So you admit there is no evidence to support the causal relationship between SDI and the collapse.of the Soviet Empire but lack the intellectual bravery to admit it. Behave as expected.
LOL
SDI was a lynchpin in Reaganís Defense buildup.  An important factor in the Reagan Doctrineóthat America would come to the aid of freedom fighters to throw off Soviet tyranny. It ended the Brezhnev Doctrine, which claimed that all socialist countries would fight any effort to introduce capitalism on their turf.
Gorbachev with all of his attempts to save the Soviet Union finally understood  the obvious:  the Soviet Union was so far behind in the Arms Race it had no choice but to just go away.

You can keep saying the same thing, but you still haven't really shown how SDI was a linchpin or THE linchpin (not sure what a "lynchpin" is, unless it's a sharp object you find in some salad dressings).  The collapse was far more about economics than intimidation by Ray Guns (pun intended).  Here's part of an essay by a historian, based on CIA and DOS documents from that period:

Quote
During the 1960s and 1970s, the Communist Party elite rapidly gained wealth and power while millions of average Soviet citizens faced starvation. The Soviet Unionís push to industrialize at any cost resulted in frequent shortages of food and consumer goods. Bread lines were common throughout the 1970s and 1980s. Soviet citizens often did not have access to basic needs, such as clothing or shoes.

The divide between the extreme wealth of the Politburo and the poverty of Soviet citizens created a backlash from younger people who refused to adopt Communist Party ideology as their parents had.

The USSR also faced foreign attacks on the Soviet economy. In the 1980s, the United States under President Ronald Reagan isolated the Soviet economy from the rest of the world and helped drive oil prices to their lowest levels in decades. When the Soviet Unionís oil and gas revenue dropped dramatically, the USSR began to lose its hold on Eastern Europe.

Meanwhile, Gorbachevís reforms were slow to bear fruit and did more to hasten the collapse of the Soviet Union than to help it. A loosening of controls over the Soviet people emboldened independence movements in the Soviet satellites of Eastern Europe.

Political revolution in Poland in 1989 sparked other, mostly peaceful revolutions across Eastern European states and led to the toppling of the Berlin Wall. By the end of 1989, the USSR had come apart at the seams.

An unsuccessful coup by Communist Party hard-liners in August 1991 sealed the Soviet Unionís fate by diminishing Gorbachevís power and propelling democratic forces, led by Boris Yeltsin, to the forefront of Russian politics.

Source:

https://www.history.com/topics/russia/history-of-the-soviet-union#section_8
If you want to pursue some other line of reasoning go right ahead. It hardly changes the facts, easily researchable from leaders of oppressed Iron Curtain countries, that the primary reason behind the fall of the Soviet Union was the collapse of Brezhnev Doctrine. And oneWestern leader above all others forced the Soviets to give it up and abandon the arms race, brought down the Berlin Wall, and ended the Cold War at the bargaining table and not on the battlefield: President Ronald Reagan.
Plenty of people, including Havel and Walesa credit the Helsinki accords and James Carter's focus on human rights. Not that you would ever admit that.

But even conceding defense spending played a role in the economic collapse of the.Eastern Bloc, SDI's role is what is at issue, and you have never offered more then a quick was too as support. SDI was never more than a laughing stock.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #16544 on: July 12, 2019, 02:21:45 PM »

Redís whole life is a laughingstock. He wonít know what you mean.
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