Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[chipstern]

I was Mitchell then frank at the draft with a lot of back and forth prior. But that also meant thinking a lot about Dennis Smith.

I also watched him in Dallas a fair amount and have watched him closely here in NY.

No question he has potential, and talent, and a certain understanding of the game. By 24 or 25, he could be really good.

He’s not really good right now, even for what we need him to do now which is be a disciplined energetic platoon PG who keeps the train together on both ends. Can he take a guy off the dribble, score in a crowd, throw the advanced pass, make the athletic defensive play? Yes, yes, yes, and yes. That’s why some teams might want him. Kadeem Allen does all those things nearly as well plus he does that stuff we hope Dennis will one day do. Also Kadeem has more experience with Miller’s coaching under NBA rules than any other active player.

I’m not saying we have to trade Smith or that we should, just pointing out it would t hurt us much if we do.

Maybe there’s better return out there than Layman. We have Bullock coming back and we have Barrett, Dotson, Morris, and Knox, not to mention Iggy.

NOT TO MENTION...

Trier

We're paying him like 3.5 million in this the final year of his deal. 

What is HIS role with Miller's team going forward?  I know that Kiid is singularly unimpressed. 

We shall see. 

Your take on Smith makes sense. 

I am more inclined to see what he's got than to offload him. 

Hey, if there is an offer out there which makes sense, Dotson, Trier, Ellington, Bullock, could be useful assets for some teams.  All ending/opt-out-clause contracts. 

As per Gibson and Portis, Randle and Morris? 

All have been progressing.  Gibson a good table setter for Robinson; Portis finding his rhythm as a 15-20 minute a night stretch 4.  Randle finding his rhythm, being deployed in a more sensible way....would still prefer to see more in the box and hoisting less treys.  Morris has been our best player, though sometimes he has a tendency to force things, but more often than not, has been responding to the challenge of being the bell cow. 

Bullock kind of a wild card at this point.  Shoots threes in the 35-40% range, and is purportedly a good defender. 

Having gone back and forth on this, if a deal is struck, thinning out the back court herd would seem to make some sense, if there is a useful return.

What that might constitute? 

[Kam]

We are a .500 franchise since the coaching change and maybe a julius randle free throw from being 4-2 since the culling.

Sure Payton's availability and the quality of the opposition coincided with the upswing.

But it was Fiz who chose to sit all PGs in favor of Trierror to start game 1.

It was Fiz who turned Mitch and Frank foul machines with his idea of switching defense.

It's Miller who has us chasing three pt shooters.

Mills is in full-scale CYA mode hiring Blatt to follow up the loss of David Griffin.

Notice how once the articles about Mills interfering with the Griffin hire came out, he turns to Griffin's man Blatt to flush the news cycle and maybe appease Dolan into thinking he got the next best thing to Griffin.

[FWK00]

Is Barrett's 125 (combined percentages - 40+30+55) worst in the league among non bigs?

May very well be.

125 is higher than 117, which is what you get from DSJ’s  .338 fg  .314 3 pt and .515 ft splits. Yet someone might want to take him off our hands.

462. Fg 352. 3pt .600 ft is what Layman is knocking down for The wolves on 10 pets per game over 27 minutes. He’s 25 with the size to play 2 or 3. He’s making under 4 mil the next two years.

Ellington has a 126 mark by this bizarre metric .322 fg .304 3pt .666 ft.

Swap DSJ for Layman. Release Ellington and call up and sign for 3 or more years Kadeem Allen. This improves our PG and perimeter production with cheap smart productive effort players entering their early primes.

We’re not gonna get more for DSJ if we even get that much.

I'm of the inclination to move faster than Feb. to make moves to improve the team.


The argument of, "What's the rush?" simply ignores the laws of physics. Using DSJ as an example, advocates tease, "but he's soooo athletic, so much potential", and so on.  That's true.  But it requires that DSJ somehow takes priority over everybody else who may not be as athletic but are playing very well given their age and maturity and furthermore like to play defense.

And there's always the argument that somebody, somewhere will groom DSJ to his potential.  IMO, good on them.

My "rush" to trade a DSJ is that its addition by subtraction.  Allen is an upgrade. as third PG off the bench.  That's just a fact.

Secondly, it takes the monkey off Miller's back to do *something* constructive with DSJ as if he's now Miller's sword of Damocles.
Miller has his hands full already.  Why not ease his burden rather than continue to pound the sand with DSJ?

Jake Layman would be a fine return if it were offered.  Minnesota has little else of interest.

Why not Smith and Portis for Little and Bazemore?

[kiidcarter8]

PPS: Teague as a rumor.  Is a rumor.  Don't see why Minny would offload him when they are trying to solidify their culture and make the playoffs. Was addressing the notions, floated here, that the Knicks dump Smith, instead of nurturing him.  Too soon to proclaim him a bust.  TOO FUCKING SOON.  


OK, got it.

[FWK00]

PPS: Teague as a rumor.  Is a rumor.  Don't see why Minny would offload him when they are trying to solidify their culture and make the playoffs. Was addressing the notions, floated here, that the Knicks dump Smith, instead of nurturing him.  Too soon to proclaim him a bust.  TOO FUCKING SOON.  


OK, got it.

Well, I prefer Frankie and Payton rather than Teague, not because I am diminishing Teague's value but the Frankie/Elfrid duo is playing very, very well - why mess with that?

Its never too soon to cut bait on DSJ - that train left the station a while ago.

[kiidcarter8]

Train seems to come and go

Cant scoff at 5 assists and 5 boards in 13 minutes, DSJ's latest

Likely he wont play much tomorrow though.

[kiidcarter8]

PS: James Wiseman.  That would be nice.  Still pretty raw, in terms of his shot, but has potential as both a 5 and a stretch 4.   VERY ATHLETIC. Though I suspect the hoops gods do not favor the Knicks.  In lieu of that wet dream, do the Knicks pursue one of the PGs?  Or is there a drop dead shooter who might fall in our laps?  There seem to be any number of PGs and promising but raw bigs.


Is kind of a 5 player tier atop..... thoug I also like 6 and 7 - (the Israeli and the AZ point)

The shooter I think is Edwards - would bump Barrett to the 3.  Laugh if you want but Lonzo's bro is a possibility for Broadway

[chipstern]

PPS: Teague as a rumor.  Is a rumor.  Don't see why Minny would offload him when they are trying to solidify their culture and make the playoffs. Was addressing the notions, floated here, that the Knicks dump Smith, instead of nurturing him.  Too soon to proclaim him a bust.  TOO FUCKING SOON.  


OK, got it.

Well, I prefer Frankie and Payton rather than Teague, not because I am diminishing Teague's value but the Frankie/Elfrid duo is playing very, very well - why mess with that?

Its never too soon to cut bait on DSJ - that train left the station a while ago.

But we should take back Bazemore?

Reasoning is too sophisticated for me. 

A smallish 6'4" 30-year old SF/SG, when we already have RJ and Bullock, not to mention Knox and Iggy.

A severely undersized PF who is a .162% from trey. 

A) I prefer my redundancy to yours. 

B) Subtraction through MORE SUBTRACTION. 

C) And you toss in Portis in exchange for a dwarf Stretch 4 who 'caint stretch. 

Well, now...

We give up talent and get back nothing. 

[carlos123]

PPS: Yes Carlos, time to weaponize your pussy, but keep your Inner Merciless at hand. 

You mean this



Rather than this?

[bodiddley]

The final, and most aggressive trade is a package of Markieff Morris, Langston Galloway, and Tony Snell for Kent Bazemore, Anfernee Simons, and a 2020 first round pick from the Portland Trailblazers.

That's the kind of trade i'd like to make.
Where we give a team a starter and two solid bench guys in exchange for a yute and a 1R pick.  I've targeted Simons and a POR 1st. 

We could offer POR a better Morris, a backup PG (Elf or Smith) and a shooter scorer (Ellington/Trier).  We have the depth to give a team an instant bench.

I think our package is superior to DET.  Mainly because we have the better Morris, and give a PG which they need when Lillard gets dinged up as he does.

Baze has never fulfilled his promise, mostly because he is a mistake guy with poor vision and iffy consistency.  But he plays hard and comes through now and then.  Really just trade ballast and a body.

I'd like to make one trade soon, take a pause and then make another near the deadline.  A team like POR needs to make a trade early to salvage their season.  A Morris + deal.  Then a PG + instant bench trade.  Get yute, get assets, get picks.

I'd also be up for starting JR. Smith for the next month, see if he can lead these guys and/or up his trade value.

[bodiddley]

It's easier to concoct trades when you know what a team needs and what direction they are heading in.  I guess right now Knix need a starting PG (as always) and outside shooters.  And I'd be flipping vets for yute/picks.  Might as well lose with potential rather than vets.

I would have flipped Rose for Rubio, as he's still young and solid.  Plays D, gives you a nice foundation and then you know you need a 3-Pt shooting SG to pair with him.

Wish Knix also went after pitbull guys like PaBev, Rich Holmes, Montrezl, Smart.  NY loves hustle guys who throw their bodies around and want to win more than the other guy.  Also, we never bothered trying to get a 3 wing, though Morris is sort of that.

Right now I'm looking for underperforming or low minute guys from the last few drafts we could target: DJ Wilson, Simonsays, etc.

I guess we have two months to figure out what the plan is.  My guess is Knx hedge by making a small move involving a PG and stay put otherwise.  Hopefully the pressure on Mills forces a bigger deal.  Would Perry-Mills make major vet dumping moves, tack to a yute rebuild and claim that was the plan all along nabbing so many PF FA's?

[kiidcarter8]

Well, I prefer Frankie and Payton rather than Teague, not because I am diminishing Teague's value but the Frankie/Elfrid duo is playing very, very well - why mess with that?


Are we saying this is our duo for next season?

[bodiddley]

If we're putting together a trade package and getting a return we like, I'd likely let a team choose Franc instead of Jr. Smith if they so wanted.

In other words, let's see if Franc is still here after the trade deadline, before worrying about next year.

One other thing: there have been a fair number of quality/starting level PG's moved in the past say 5 years and the Knix never got in on the action.  vets: Kyrie x 2, Kemba, Bledsoe, Dragic, Rubio, Teague, Pa Bev, RegJax; oldheads: Conley, Westbrook, CP3,  young'uns LonzoBall, Brogdon, Rozier, Fultz.

All we did was kick the tires on a semi-gimpy DRose, a reclamation Mud, and a discombobulated Jr. Smith.
Good low-risk gambles, but not starting caliber PG's.
 i would have liked to get Rubio, Brogdon and Pa Bev.
And there was talk that Lowry could have been had a #1.

For years I keep wondering where/when the Knix will get a starting PG.

[chipstern]

Let Us Get On The Memory Train.

And Go Back 10 Seasons To Kiid's Favorite Knicks Draft Pick. 

And Kam's Least Fave GM, Dim Donnie Walsh. 

Minny went for Rubio at #5 [Nice] and Johnny Flynn at #6 [Not So Nice], and just when it appeared as though Steph Curry would land in D'Antoni's lap at #8, Golden State took him at #7. 

And just because we were in desperate need of a PG, Walsh at #8 did the indefensible (save to his stalwart defender Kiid), by taking PF Jordan Hill, who went on to average 10.5 minutes a game over 24 contests before he was unceremoniously shipped off out of town along with Jared Jeffries in a deal which brought back to NYC the earthly remains of Tracy McGrady. 

This is one of the most PG rich drafts in NBA history, as well as some other significant players still in the league. 

#8 Jordan Hill
#9 DeMar DeRozan
#10 Brandon Jennings
#17 Jrue Holiday
#18 Ty Lawson
#19 Jeff Teague
#21 Darren Collison
#26 Taj Gibson
#27 DeMarre Carroll
#28 Wayne Ellington
#29 Toney Douglas
#42 Patrick Beverley
#46 Danny Green
#55 Patty Mills

Both of the Knicks picks...gone.

No second rounders, of course, because we all know how useless those are, save for, oh, Beverley, Green and Mills, all still in the league, and with career 3-pt percentages hovering between .375 and .400 (not unlike Collison). 

Meanwhile, the Knicks end up with Gibson and Ellington in the twilight of their careers.  Jennings had a cameo with the Knicks. 

Jennings and Lawson both out of the league. 

But Holiday (still only 29) and Teague are still productive players.  Jennings had a nice productive stretch for the Bucks, Lawson had a nice productive stretch for the Nuggets, and Collison was a dependable distributor and shooter for numerous teams through last season (not sure why he is not presently on an NBA roster). 

So when I read arguments which hold how we should ship Dennis Smith out of town for marginal role players, well, I get kind of, blue. 

PS: As for dumping other members of our current roster, such as Morris, for late first rounders, much as I love draft picks, the 2020 Draft is shaping up as one of the weakest in memory, so our chances of getting something tasty are just as promising with the #2 pick we gleaned from the Hornets in the Hernan Gomez trade, as what we might get from the Clippers' draft pick.  "But then we might be letting Morris walk for nothing next summer."  MAYBE.  If so, his contribution to Kevin Knox's development has been manifest. 

PPS: Read a very interesting analysis of Coach Miller, which credited him with big improvements in the Knicks by virtue of simplifying our defensive scheme, which you may observe in that Robinson is not picking up cheap fouls when complex switching schemes find him out on the perimeter getting juked by smaller quicker players, while the rim goes undefended.  Likewise Frank.  All of that switching flummoxed the Knicks, let to confusion, blown assignments, and a flurry of open threes. 

PPPS: In simplifying the defense, and making players thus accountable for understandable responsibilities, Miller has thus been able to make the offense way less predictable, less of Fizz's iso-heavy hero ball, with players such as Randle dribbling repeatedly into one-on-three coverage while motherfuckers stood around holding their dicks on the perimeter; more motion without the ball; more decisive cutting and screens; better spacing and ball-sharing.  WE SHALL SEE. 

PPPPS: While everyone is zoning on Mills and Perry, and Mills' potential power move in bringing David Blatt into the fold, it is worth noting that everyone seems to be zoning on Dolan's ace in the hole, as opposed to Mills' ass in the hold.  That is to say...ALLAN HOUSTON, people.  Houston has long had a positive relationship with Dolan, and has steadily moved up the ranks.  One should NOT DISCOUNT Houston's positive work with our G-League franchise, and, now class, who was Houston's coach in Westchester, and the man he lobbied to be promoted to Fizz's staff, and thereafter, to THE HEAD COACHING CHAIR.  Don't think this has escaped Dolan's notice, and if Mills & Perry are to be cashiered, and if Dolan resists his much discredited predilection for big names as his Head Of Basketball Operations (Isiah Thomas Donnie Walsh, Phil Jackson) and does not aimlessly pursue the GMs of Toronto, OKC and San Antonio, Allan Houston could very well provide a touch of continuity with a change of emphasis in the front office moving forward.  YOUR THOUGHTS? 

[bodiddley]

I prefer Spree . . .

Collison abruptly retired to become a minister, I believe.