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How Should the Basketball "Topics" Be Arranged?

Knicks, NBA, College
- 3 (50%)
Knicks, Other Basketball
- 0 (0%)
NBA, College
- 1 (16.7%)
Basketball
- 0 (0%)
Leave it as it is
- 2 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: August 30, 2020, 02:57:14 PM


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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 328036 times)

kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12735 on: August 03, 2020, 06:09:22 PM »

Porter plays young, makes mistakes, is tentative at times.  Had a number of poor fouls.


heh

I'll take him.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12736 on: August 03, 2020, 06:26:37 PM »

Hopefully the training staff in Denver can catch him up on how human health actually works.

His game is coming along though.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12737 on: August 04, 2020, 01:03:43 AM »

Wish we had KZ and Rubio.

He left.

Has there ever been a budding young star, still on a rook contract, who forced his way out?

KZ left because of organizational dysfunction.
Phil thinking that he and his retrograde system was the star of the show.
The crappy way that Melo and Noah were treated.  The coaching carousel.
The antiquated system.  Never got KZ a PG partner.  Etc.

Most teams coddle their star, pay them more than other teams can, keep his trainers and end-of-the-bench friends with the team, etc.
Knix completely and thoroughly blew it.
And then to make matters worse, rushed a trade for useless parts.
Just embarrassing.
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chipstern

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12738 on: August 04, 2020, 01:37:01 AM »

Wish we had KZ and Rubio.

He left.

Has there ever been a budding young star, still on a rook contract, who forced his way out?

KZ left because of organizational dysfunction.
Phil thinking that he and his retrograde system was the star of the show.
The crappy way that Melo and Noah were treated.  The coaching carousel.
The antiquated system.  Never got KZ a PG partner.  Etc.

Most teams coddle their star, pay them more than other teams can, keep his trainers and end-of-the-bench friends with the team, etc.
Knix completely and thoroughly blew it.
And then to make matters worse, rushed a trade for useless parts.
Just embarrassing.

Word
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FWK00

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Re: Kiid On A Skid
« Reply #12739 on: August 04, 2020, 10:38:09 AM »

I'm concerned though that this season may be a waste and with that thought in mind its crazy to trade for Chris Paul. His shelf-life is expiring and wasting assets on signing  expensive contracts for a dicey year of play seems risky.  Better to trade for longer term assets OR draft well and use this year to stockpile a few more kids.  Two years out this will be a superteam.


Ridiculous

Says you, numb nutz. 

Chris Paul still has plenty left in the tank.  Love him. 

But CP should be the final piece, not the first. 

We would have to gut what little talent we have to bring him here in a trade, to play with...WHO? 

Let's go to the Real GM Trade Checker.  NO FAs, only signed contract players. 

Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, Frank Ntilikina, Dennis Smith, Kevin Knox for Chris Paul. 

Congrats, successful trade. 

Sounds like a plan, huh? 

Of course, now GM Kiid could fill those open roster spots with more proven veterans, like Jimmer.

Thanks Chip.

The value of Chris Paul under normal circumstances would be as much for teaching and leading as playing (we ain't winning the coming season).  So his "tank" would have to last two or three seasons to actually squeeze value.

As for the trade numbers, I'm guessing sign and trade numbers would buffer the numbers game in that regard.
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FWK00

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Re: And who exactly was YOUR COACH, Carlos?
« Reply #12740 on: August 04, 2020, 10:40:14 AM »

I said before MANY TIMES who exactly was my coach. Guess you didn't read, so I'll repeat it: MIKE MILLER.

Why? I'll also repeat some of my arguments for you:

Proved to be a very good coach FOR THIS TEAM, with immediate improvement over his predecessor, good with our yute, team played hard for him, and played as a TEAM, articulate and great with the press (yes, I think that's important in NY) and, crucially, I thought it was about time the Knicks showed SOME loyalty for a change, to someone who'd been with them and proved himself when given the opportunity. That's why I hope some other team hires him as head coach.

Quote
Carlos...you just sort of re-fry those beans about playing vets too many minutes.

In Minny, besides getting them to their one playoff appearance in what, a decade, he actually brought KAT's minutes...DOWN from around 38 to 33.

Chip, you know that argument is funny, don't you? I mean, big fucking deal, down 5 MINUTES. Besides, was KAT really a veteran at the time? Oh, and he was fired for a number of reasons. He may have have been very good in Chicago, but not really in a developing team like Minny.

Now, you like Thibs, good for you! Lets see if you still like him after one season.

Carlos, I share your lament.  I happen to think Miller was the guy to continue developing the Knicks but I'm not at all distraught about Thibs. 

Unlike many of the Knicks critics I don't think the Knicks roster needs so much 'work' as it needs and needed maturity.  I happen to think the Knicks have a great core in Frankie, Dotson, RJ, and Mitchell. And they have plenty of choices with everyone else - either trade 'em or keep them. 

IMO, high on the trade fodder list is Randle, Smith, Knox, Portis, and Harper. And Randle being the top priority to get gone.

Now, I believe this season is going to be a hot mess.  You can't bubble your way through a season so the league will need to expand rosters just because with the G-League being more of the Legion of substitute NBA playahs.  The Knicks building a bigger coaching staff will be a good thing and having Woody and Miller available to keep a substitute unit in tact will be crucial.

I'm concerned though that this season may be a waste and with that thought in mind its crazy to trade for Chris Paul.  His shelf-life is expiring and wasting assets on signing  expensive contracts for a dicey year of play seems risky.  Better to trade for longer term assets OR draft well and use this year to stockpile a few more kids.  Two years out this will be a superteam.

What Bo responded to.
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FWK00

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12741 on: August 04, 2020, 10:45:51 AM »

Fwk you ... crazy.

I've found that pessimism has been warranted for the last 7 years, and likely another 3 going forward.

They guys you want to keep aren't that good.  The guys you want to trade have little value now.  I assume we won't pick up Portis' option.

Frankie is a unicorn and just entering a competence phase of maturity.  He and Dotson put together some of the best complementary play of the year under Miller.  Miller's trajectory minus Fizz would have had us completing a very decent season 30+ wins given the roster. Thibs should do at least that well this coming year.

But my point is, why invest in high profile trades for this coming Covid year? Invest in the kids.  The vets that are kept are fine - not great, but good-enough.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12742 on: August 04, 2020, 11:26:44 AM »

Franc & Dot?
You gotta have somebody who can bring the ball upcourt.
Somebody who can set guys up.
I don't see it.
Both of those guys are bench fodder.
Wouldn't surprise me if one or both was out of the league within 3 years.
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lesterluv

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12743 on: August 04, 2020, 11:45:38 AM »

I think that would surprise me a lot.
Sure agree with you about Rubio though. Nice nice player.


* Just ain't no way Frankie out of the league — plenty of teams would kill for what he already brings on one side of the ball. Like Rubio, he came into the league offensively challenged in certain specific ways. Unlike Rubio, he's on a trajectory to shoot 40% for the first time well before he turns 26, lol.  Of course, he's no ball handling wizard like the Spaniard, the opposite, different set of challenges to overcome, though excellent game feel will serve him well. Yet unclear exactly what he will become, but if he ends up heading back to France to play ball it will only be because he misses mama's cooking.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 11:56:24 AM by lesterluv »
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12744 on: August 04, 2020, 11:52:46 AM »

were you giving up the Knox pick for one year of Rubio, with hopes he would re-sign?  How much would you have offered?
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lesterluv

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12745 on: August 04, 2020, 11:59:31 AM »

Well given where Knox appears to be headed, surely, but hindsight isn't fair so can't honestly say. Didn't trust mgmt to trade the pick, didn't trust mgmt to make the pick.


*** really didn't like that pick, sometimes what you read just is..low motor, bad d, what more do you really need to know, not good.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 12:01:31 PM by lesterluv »
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12746 on: August 04, 2020, 12:34:10 PM »

I'd have to go back and see what I was offering for Rubio.
I usually concoct a trade when I target a player.

I'm also fairly reluctant to trade 1st round picks.
So likely not, but I doubt that was our only option.
I don't remember the context well enough, or what Utah traded for Rubio, to really say much more.
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12747 on: August 04, 2020, 01:02:53 PM »

We could've had Rubio for Derrick Rose but we asked for too much.  At the last minute the Knicks reportedly dropped the demand and would've accepted a 1 for 1 deal but Minny had moved on.

Marc Stein
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Feb 23, 2017
The Knicks, sources say, are pushing for an additional piece from Minnesota in the Rubio/DRose talks and that's been the holdup this week.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12748 on: August 04, 2020, 01:08:21 PM »

That's right.
All reports were Minny was willing to do a Rose/Rubio swap.
And Phil wanted more.  And by the time Phil agreed last minute, Minny had moved on.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #12749 on: August 04, 2020, 01:13:52 PM »

So likely not, but I doubt that was our only option.


Well, I asked because they dealt him for a 1, though later than Knox (#20 overall)

Knicks could have protected it....
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