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Who will win Game 5 of the NBA Finals?

Warriors
- 1 (33.3%)
Celtics
- 2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM


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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 1187906 times)

bodiddley

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AuRevoir
« Reply #16950 on: February 08, 2021, 04:16:21 AM »

Yeah, Rose is a driver and non-distance threat a la RJB and Elf (though not as poor on 3's as Elf).  I assume: 1) Rose was available cheap  2) Rivers up-and-down effort wasn't cutting it  3) it's also about culture and getting another lockerroom guy who is solidly behind Thibs (Taj is, but he is 3rd string).

Randle, RJB, Quix all seem to be on Team Thibs.  Bullox has bought in on D and plays his role solidly.  Burks has certainly made an effort to move the ball and not jack too much and fit it, has been our best 3-point shooter, but makes mistakes (mostly on D, but last game burned a pair of 2nd half timeouts --once double teamed, an then in the endgame couldn't inbound the ball, and you could see Thibs was angry).   

Even before the season, I thought Rivers had a secure rotation spot helping IQ on the 2nd unit.  But IQ has been better than expected, and Burks has simply outplayed Rivers.  While the 3G late game lineup (IQ, AuRevoir & Burks hasn't been dynamic enough). 

So most likely Rose takes the place of Rivers as 2nd unit combo guard next to IQ.  Rivers has been up and down on both ends.

As for 'Thibs doesn't give up on guys'  ...  Exhibit 1: Jr. Smith. 
With Franc and Knox on death watch.

I'd hunt around for what a Rivers/Knox package could bring in.
Looking for a Royce O'Neal type 3&D SF.
Maybe Osman, Cam Johnson, Culver probably available but his shooting is really bad.
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chipstern

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Call On Me Teacher
« Reply #16951 on: February 08, 2021, 04:19:37 AM »

You’re sure all POSITIVE PUSSIES!

Too bad Nagel is no longer around these parts to give you all his secular blessings!

May all the ancient gods bless your heathen spirits 😁😻🙃

PS. How does a no-defense-no-3-point-shooter help this team? Color me baffled 😳

I pledge allegiance to the flag...ooops, wrong answer. 

How's about, a penetrator who can read the defense, create off the dribble, divine easier shots for his team mates off of his penetrations, and in forcing defenses to collapse on him, force them to foul and get to the line where he converts FTs at an 80-85% clip. 

Your welcome. 

PS: In creating off the dribble and drawing defenses for his two point forays and penetrations, gee whiz, ya' think that might create opportunities for three point shooters such as Bullock and Burks and Randle and Quickley.

PPS: Or maybe that Thibs has more faith in him to initiate his offense than anyone else currently on our roster.

PPPS: Or that some of that creativity might rub off on our Puppy In Chief, High IQ? 
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chipstern

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Re: AuRevoir
« Reply #16952 on: February 08, 2021, 04:26:39 AM »

Yeah, Rose is a driver and non-distance threat a la RJB and Elf (though not as poor on 3's as Elf).  I assume: 1) Rose was available cheap  2) Rivers up-and-down effort wasn't cutting it  3) it's also about culture and getting another lockerroom guy who is solidly behind Thibs (Taj is, but he is 3rd string).

Randle, RJB, Quix all seem to be on Team Thibs.  Bullox has bought in on D and plays his role solidly.  Burks has certainly made an effort to move the ball and not jack too much and fit it, has been our best 3-point shooter, but makes mistakes (mostly on D, but last game burned a pair of 2nd half timeouts --once double teamed, an then in the endgame couldn't inbound the ball, and you could see Thibs was angry).   

Even before the season, I thought Rivers had a secure rotation spot helping IQ on the 2nd unit.  But IQ has been better than expected, and Burks has simply outplayed Rivers.  While the 3G late game lineup (IQ, AuRevoir & Burks hasn't been dynamic enough). 

So most likely Rose takes the place of Rivers as 2nd unit combo guard next to IQ.  Rivers has been up and down on both ends.

As for 'Thibs doesn't give up on guys'  ...  Exhibit 1: Jr. Smith. 
With Franc and Knox on death watch.

I'd hunt around for what a Rivers/Knox package could bring in.
Looking for a Royce O'Neal type 3&D SF.
Maybe Osman, Cam Johnson, Culver probably available but his shooting is really bad.

You really think Cleveland is going to trade Osman or Phoeniz Johnson?  Let alone to US.  And I'm supposed to be a positive pussy.  Oh, and Culver is a SG who can't fucking shoot, converting treys at a .258% clip and FTs up from .462% to .606%
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #16953 on: February 08, 2021, 04:30:19 AM »

Rivers is best when he is playing high energy on-the-ball pestiferous defense.
I haven't seen much of that since early in the season.  He can get beat on drives, gambles a bit, sometimes takes bad angles, and can be inattentive off the ball.  Relies on athleticism more than solid positioning.  Not a bad, but an erratic defender.  It comes and goes, like his offense.  He's looked de-mojo-ed the past couple weeks, I was wondering if it's mental or physical.


Looking at SF stats, DEF Real +/-

1. DeAndreHuntress
2. Cam Johnson
3. LeBronco
4. Reg Bollocks
5. Kawhy
6. Andre Iggy

Which is why Bullox starts . . .
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #16954 on: February 08, 2021, 04:41:27 AM »

Was just looking around quickly for some trade candidates.
Osman having a down year, Cavs might want to get younger (Knox).
Cavs could really use a defensive PG/combo guard.  Maybe could talk themselves into Rivers(?)  Not that likely, but not far-fetched.

Knox doesn't have high value right now.
I assume everybody would trade Knox for either Bridges or of course Porterhouse Jr.  Really Mikal Bridges is a long-armed defensive ball of energy, who makes plays.  A winner as he was repped to be.  No idea why Philly traded him away draft night.

Maybe Knox/Rivers doesn't get you much.  I'd take Pa Bev or Reg Jax, but Clips probably don't do it, and it would have only made sense before trading for Rose anyway.

I'll try to look for a genuine trade when I have a chance. 
Right now, I'd trade ObiT for Cam Johnson (or Bridges).
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chipstern

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #16955 on: February 08, 2021, 04:48:06 AM »

Was just looking around quickly for some trade candidates.
Osman having a down year, Cavs might want to get younger (Knox).
Cavs could really use a defensive PG/combo guard.  Maybe could talk themselves into Rivers(?)  Not that likely, but not far-fetched.

Knox doesn't have high value right now.
I assume everybody would trade Knox for either Bridges or of course Porterhouse Jr.  Really Mikal Bridges is a long-armed defensive ball of energy, who makes plays.  A winner as he was repped to be.  No idea why Philly traded him away draft night.

Maybe Knox/Rivers doesn't get you much.  I'd take Pa Bev or Reg Jax, but Clips probably don't do it, and it would have only made sense before trading for Rose anyway.

I'll try to look for a genuine trade when I have a chance. 
Right now, I'd trade ObiT for Cam Johnson (or Bridges).


Oh, brother.  Cut back on the soy sauce. 

Nighty Night. 

PS: DeAndre Hunter just had meniscus surgery.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #16956 on: February 08, 2021, 07:06:56 AM »

Actually this year's Batum would have been perfect for these Knix.
He's played terrific all-around hoops, and has been a key player for LAC.
Really nice to see him bounce back.


Hunter expected to miss just 2-3 weeks.  Rather small surgery, but who knows, that sounds rather optimistic.  An op for Cam Reddish to step up.  The guy is basically a mess, but an athletic hot mess.  I haven't had a chance to see more than 2 minutes of Okongwu so far.  Hunter is the key guy for ATL.  Keeps that team humming.  We'll see if they can avoid a collapse without him. 


IQ leads all rooks in PER, followed by LaMelo and TyH
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lesterluv

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #16957 on: February 08, 2021, 09:19:17 AM »

Why you gonna bring up that Quickly PER? It's the secret classified stuff.

*** reveal. with the excision of DSjr from the roster, Elf is now dead last in PER among the 4 NYKnick PGs..but kiid will never tell you that, despite his promises, because cowardice has always been his #1 defining trait!

My friend in Dayton was rattling my cage about this Obi sequence:

https://twitter.com/HoopsSupply/status/1358778321249726465

Hopefully D Rose may prove adept at spotting him running the baseline
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 09:26:20 AM by lesterluv »
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chipstern

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Bo In The Know
« Reply #16958 on: February 08, 2021, 09:38:32 AM »

Actually this year's Batum would have been perfect for these Knix.
He's played terrific all-around hoops, and has been a key player for LAC.
Really nice to see him bounce back.


Hunter expected to miss just 2-3 weeks.  Rather small surgery, but who knows, that sounds rather optimistic.  An op for Cam Reddish to step up.  The guy is basically a mess, but an athletic hot mess.  I haven't had a chance to see more than 2 minutes of Okongwu so far.  Hunter is the key guy for ATL.  Keeps that team humming.  We'll see if they can avoid a collapse without him. 


IQ leads all rooks in PER, followed by LaMelo and TyH

Yes. They have all been terrific.  I'd be a lying motherfucker if I tried to front as if I didn't look at Kings box scores every day...size and athleticism, scorer, facilitator, defender.  All the major food groups. 

Who knows.  For that matter, who knows if we'd have still pursued IQ if we had taken Tyrese.  Can't have everything.  And we were not the only team to pass on him.  Detroit for one.  Wonder how they had Killian Hayes rated a better fit for their team.  Go figure. 

As fate would have it, IQ and Obi a nice nod to our future. 

I was arguing with our old pal Nagel, who texted me a trade phantasy, then wondered why I did not reply. 

Knox & Ntilikina and Dallas' 2021 #1 for Zach Levine. 

When he pushed me, I did not respond in the affirmative, and chided him for reminding me of those halycon days when the Knicks traded the #5 and #8 picks in the draft for Gerald Henderson and Juuwan Oldham. 

And I really like Zach Levine.  Not a great defender, but he can sure fill up a box score. 

But so far I like that the Knicks appear to have recovered from their nasty habit of dealing away all of their draft picks on shiny objects. 

The trades that stockpiled draft picks and somehow transformed Ed Davis into multiple #2's and Alex Burke seemed prudent rather than garish.  And transforming the earthly remains of Dennis Smith and Charlotte's #2 [from the Hernan-Gomez transaction] into Derrick Rose seems a modest roster move with an eye on making Thibs happy, making IQ and Obi better, and battening down the hatches for a playoff ascent. 

And that #1 from Dallas, even if they do not scrape bottom, which is unlikely, unless both KP AND Luka go down, at the very least looks to be a mid-first rounder. 

And again, while Wes and DeAndre and Dennis are all gone, the cap space we saved by not maxing out KP, and by divesting ourselves of Timmy and Courtney, continues to pay long term benefits.  Julius and Immanuel [parlayed from Marcus], plus Derrick and Elfrid and Austin and Reggie and Nerlens and Taj and Alec, all on make good one year deals.

And we are still sitting on $15 Million in cap space.

By the way, your recurring 3&D phantasia?

Otto Porter's garish deal comes to an end this summer when he turns 28, and can probably be picked up relatively on the cheap.  Still an effective long range sniper and decent defender, though he hardly gets to the FT line, despite a good FT%. 

Still, let's see how Bullock and Burks and KK close out 2020. 

PS: And yes, Philly doolooping on Bridges made no sense then, and even less now, let alone that his Momma worked in their front office. 
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #16959 on: February 08, 2021, 11:19:11 AM »

Well, we know DET likes Knox.

A place we can revisit, maybe for another #2.

heh

Re"  Rose and three point shooting - looking at his enitre history - not so good

But taking the last 115+ games (3 seasons), .337.  Vs .515 on 2 pointers

This year it is .333 vs .450, meaning for every 20 threes taken Rose gets 20 points and for every 20 twos he gets 18.

Is he developing a stroke?  Taking better ones, as he is a bit wiser? I dont know - but at this juncture I dont call it a negative.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 11:54:24 AM by kidcarter8 »
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #16960 on: February 08, 2021, 11:22:00 AM »

Culver's a nice developing talent.  I dont think we get him for Knox.
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #16961 on: February 08, 2021, 11:31:00 AM »

I think you absolutely take Osman if offered

CLE would need first to drop from the playoff picture.  I dont see this occuring - not with the uptick to TEN teams per conference.

CLE's reason to do it would be the savings of one year of Osman's deal and the possible addition of a juicy second rounder.  Do you want to give DET's 2 for '21 to get Cedi?

It would be Knox plus salary filler - then maybe you swap #2s.

Osman deal is 8 mil for '21-'22, then 7.2 mil for the following year.  3rd year would be our option
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #16962 on: February 08, 2021, 11:53:25 AM »

I assume everybody would trade Knox for either Bridges or of course Porterhouse Jr.  Really Mikal Bridges is a long-armed defensive ball of energy, who makes plays.  A winner as he was repped to be.  No idea why Philly traded him away draft night.


Not sure

Maybe Philly didnt think there would be playing time for Bridges, thus took the longer range player (Z Smith)

Sixers also have Miami's 2021 #1 from that deal.

Interesting that the Bridges pick was initially swapped when Steve Nash went to the Lakers

July 11, 2012: Traded by the Los Angeles Lakers (as a future 2018 1st round draft pick) with a 2013 1st round draft pick (Nemanja Nedović was later selected), a 2013 2nd round draft pick (Alex Oriakhi was later selected) and a 2014 2nd round draft pick (Johnny O'Bryant was later selected) to the Phoenix Suns for Steve Nash.

February 19, 2015: As part of a 3-team trade, traded by the Phoenix Suns (as a future 2018 1st round draft pick) to the Philadelphia 76ers; the Milwaukee Bucks traded Brandon Knight and Kendall Marshall to the Phoenix Suns; the Philadelphia 76ers traded Michael Carter-Williams to the Milwaukee Bucks; and the Phoenix Suns traded Tyler Ennis and Miles Plumlee to the Milwaukee Bucks.

June 21, 2018: Drafted by the Philadelphia 76ers in the 1st round (10th pick) of the 2018 NBA Draft.

June 21, 2018: Traded by the Philadelphia 76ers to the Phoenix Suns for Zhaire Smith and a 2021 1st round draft pick. (PHI receives MIA 2021 1st-rd pick from PHO.)

July 3, 2018: Signed a multi-year contract with the Phoenix Suns
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chipstern

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Rose Or A Thorn
« Reply #16963 on: February 08, 2021, 03:57:09 PM »

Lots of interesting back and forth on Rose. 

OBVIOUSLY, this is a THIBS-Driven move. 

"Oh, Thibs likes vets."

THIBS LIKES WINNING. 

He has taken us from the worst defensive team in the League to one of the best. 

D-Rose has never been known for his D, but THIBS in NYC has been pretty clear on that. 

YOU PLAY D OR YOU SIT. 

Thibs and Payne had been bringing Know along, big improvement as a sniper coming off the bench, but D lacking compared to the combination of shooting and D he was getting from Bullock and Burks, so...

"Oh, Thibs likes vets."

THIBS LIKES WINNING. 

Randle, Robinson, Barrett, Quickley.   Yute. 

Bullock, Burks, Payton, Rivers.  Vets.

Noel, Toppin.  Vets and youth. 

Knox, Ntilikina.  Out of the rotation. 

Rivers > Rose.  Austin soon to see his minutes decrease as he is supplanted in the 10 man rotation.  He started off so well, but has fallen off considerably.   

We all know how much Thibs loves RJ, but obviously he was displeased with something on Sunday vs the Heat, and RJ only played 19 minutes. 

I would expect no less from Rose. 

And we all know how much he loves Derrick, but don't be surprised if THIBS goes O > D with Rose > Payton as the situation calls for. 

A lot of the ROSE PARANOIA has revolved around him being ball dominant. 

THIBS has a system and believe me, DR will cleave to it. 

As per that ball dominance, we are used to seeing the ball in RJ & Julius' hands.  I would not expect that to be utterly sundered.  Derrick is there are Thibs behest. 

When Rose's presence will REALLY MATTER is in the fourth quarter, where all season long we have had trouble finding points.  Rose can create his own shot and break down the defense and get to the FT line AND CONVERT. 

It remains to be seen how much difference there is between his court vision and that of Elfrid and Rivers, regarding those Toppin back cuts, finding Mitch and Nerlens on pick and rolls, getting Randle and RJ the ball in stride, getting ball to IQ in rhythm, DRAWING COVERAGE. 

No one is pretending Rose is perfect, but he is a more skilled combo guard than anyone we currently have, no disrepect to Quick or RJ.  Just a fact. 

The agita about the ball sticking in Rose's hands?  It surely does, but he will have THIBS whispering in his ear, you can bet on that.  And there are times we will want it in his hands.  Not a three point shooter?  No shit Sherlock, though surely better than RJ or Elfrid.  No?  And the ball surely sticks in Austin's hands.  And HE DOESN'T GET TO THE FT LINE.  Nor convert at 80-85%. 

Elfrid is a pure point.  Derrick and IQ are combo guards with similar bodies and stylistic signatures.  I am thrilled that IQ will be practicing with and against Derrick. 

The idea that D-Rose is so selfish as to preclude all the team work and chemistry we have developed in the first third of the season? 

Jeez Louise. 

We currently don't have someone as skilled at CREATING OFFENSE IN THE FOURTH as D-Rose or at breaking down defenses and getting into the lane. 

We once thought Dennis Smith was going to be that guy. 

Didn't work out. 

Onwards. 
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chipstern

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #16964 on: February 08, 2021, 05:21:18 PM »

The Brooklyn Nets have signed free agent forward Noah Vonleh. Per team policy, terms of the deal were not released. – via NBA.com
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