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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[bodiddley]

Smith.   iffy
Number 1.    2.5 years out -- but an asset
Second #1.   4.5 years or more out -- guaranteed 11th or lower
Glimpses at Wes and the Giant.   Maybe can re-sign Wes at MLE
Room for one 7 year max free agent.   Cap space
Room for second 7 or 10 year free agent.    Cap space

So basically got very very little.  For a an-star caliber player.
Either the cap space pays off (as in at least one all-star level guy), or the whole thing is a total fiasco.

With KZ, you could see guys like Kawhi, Kyrie, Durant possiblywanting to come.  Now we just nix our betas player, have a team of whozits and kiddies, and  it's harder to imagine two top level guys wanting to hop on over to struggle getting NYK in shape.  NY looks like a mess, a place to avoid.  And it's really all-in, because why would one top player come here?  So you almost have to land 2.  Good luck.

Isn't it easier for KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, Butler to stay where they are -- all in winning situations -- or move to another winning team.  Lakes and Clips for example look much more promising.

[bodiddley]

We have heard KP asked for a trade.    True or false? I don't know.

From what I'm seeing, PerryMills backtracked from that fairly quickly.  They say KZ didn't completely buy in.  That he didn't really/fully want to be here.  Which is different than him saying he wanted out or wanted a trade.

We have heard that the brother threatened playing for the QO and going UFA.  True or false? I don't know.

I wouldn't doubt loose-cannon brother issued such a threat.  I pretty sure he said as much even before KZ got injured.  But given a player coming off a serious injury who can sign either a 1 year $7.5M deal or a 5 year/ $130M guaranteed deal, I assume the latter.  Nearly a $125M difference.  You can work on where you want to be later, after your bank account and future generations are taken care of.

KZ's camp wanted influence that they didn't have under Phil and apparently PerryMills weren't willing to allow.  But I strongly believe that was an idle threat.

You think both are false.
That's cool. You can think that.  But there's only a 1 in 4 chance of that being the case.

I think the first one is false based on the measured statements of Perry-Mills.  The second one likely true and just an empty threat.

I assume you mean one out of four possible combinations, not a 1-in-4 chance.

[lesterluv]

7'3" guys in the NBA

Nevitt
Eaton
Sampson
Smits
Sabonis
Ming
Ilguaskus
Porsingis

Only Eaton stayed healthy for a decade

5 years 130 million was what KP was going to get this summer.

We *may have* dodged a potential bullet.

Not to smitpick but Smits was pretty sturdy and  durable, 3 out of 12 seasons with less than 70 games...

Yeah Smits was pretty great. I'm not 100% sure what definition of healthy Kam is using. Sabonis Sr. played something like 23 pro seasons after all. One of my all-time faves. We only saw him at 30+ after his legs were already shot. He was still awesome.

***Seems to have taught his son well, too. I would very much love to pick up Sabonis jr. if Indy ever decides that paying two big $$ guys at the same position isn't sensible for midwesterners. Could be a nice use of those new draft picks down the road.

And is 7'3 really all that different from 7'2"?

Which gives you 3 Hall of Famers — Artis Gilmore  (17 seasons including ABA) and Kareem (20) and Dikembe (18) just off the top of my head.

Yeah KP may turn out to be injury prone, but somehow I don't think the extra inch is automatically the longevity kiss of death.

[NeedsAdjustments]

The meeting sounds like it was a sham . . .

We have heard KP asked for a trade.    True or false? I don't know.
We have heard that the brother threatened playing for the QO and going UFA.  True or false? I don't know.


You think both are false.

That's cool. You can think that.  But there's only a 1 in 4 chance of that being the case.

The “trade request” was pure propaganda meant to sell the trade to the fan base, and it fell apart almost immediately. Read the interview with Fozz, who just a few weeks earlier was talking about how invested KP was. Now he seemed “disengaged” over the last ten days, not watching as much film....so they traded him?  They just can’t manage a 23 year old with a total of two years experience when he gets down on how things are going.

Oh, and you know, his brother is kind of a dick.

Pfffftt.

Knicks fashioned a false choice to trick the fans into oking yet another dumb win now move and judging from posts here it seems to have worked. But the rest of the league is laughing their ass off.

[PrezIke]

Knick fan hero, and self-awareness master, Enes Kanter:

https://twitter.com/Schmeelk/status/1091547675403657216

[PrezIke]

So...

If the Knicks manage to get the #1 pick, and then sign KD and Kyrie.

Do you trade Zion + whatever for AD, if NO still has him?

I still do it even as exciting as Zion's potential may be.

That big 3 will be in the Finals for 2, probably 3 years, even with KD aging.

Then you still have those two still not even 30 and an older KD, who could still be a very good player.

[Jack Straw]

Knick fan hero, and self-awareness master, Enes Kanter:

https://twitter.com/Schmeelk/status/1091547675403657216

I'm not going to defend Enes's Knick knocks - he was acted like a real jerk and far exceeded his "juice".  But I will just add this. I work in Turkey and have quite a number of liberal, progressive Turkish friends.  In 2007/8 there was this ill defined conspiracy "case" called Ergenekon.  The Ergenekon  case was very ill defined and hazy but it totally freaked out western oriented Turks and continues to do so up until now.  It was the first time the Gulanists came to the attention of the west.  It also was broadly defined as a case of a Turkish "Deep State." (Which ultimately has become part of the far right code in the US and elsewhere in the West).

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

[PrezIke]

Smith.   iffy
Number 1.    2.5 years out -- but an asset
Second #1.   4.5 years or more out -- guaranteed 11th or lower
Glimpses at Wes and the Giant.   Maybe can re-sign Wes at MLE
Room for one 7 year max free agent.   Cap space
Room for second 7 or 10 year free agent.    Cap space

So basically got very very little.  For a an-star caliber player.
Either the cap space pays off (as in at least one all-star level guy), or the whole thing is a total fiasco.

With KZ, you could see guys like Kawhi, Kyrie, Durant possiblywanting to come.  Now we just nix our betas player, have a team of whozits and kiddies, and  it's harder to imagine two top level guys wanting to hop on over to struggle getting NYK in shape.  NY looks like a mess, a place to avoid.  And it's really all-in, because why would one top player come here?  So you almost have to land 2.  Good luck.

Isn't it easier for KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, Butler to stay where they are -- all in winning situations -- or move to another winning team.  Lakes and Clips for example look much more promising.

So, all the chatter about KD coming to NY, that many "in the knows" in the NBA have been hinting at since the before the season started, is irrelevant to the Knicks decision making?

I'm not saying it's absolutely true, but to ignore or dismiss this entirely, as well as the ongoing issues Kyrie appears to be having with the C's and the increasing ambiguity about his future - documented here in some detail today:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25903463/kyrie-irving-nba-superstars-going-all-in

strikes me as odd. I read this past week that Ainge may have even been shopping Kyrie around as well.

So, the pursuit of cap space is useless because you think no one will want to come here, even though there are increasing signs all season of the opposite?

I know we have a reason through history to doubt the Knicks FO, but Dolan is not in charge, nor is Phil. He had to approve the KP trade, but that came from convos with Perry and Mills. Mills I think we can gather, however, is really guided by Perry, as we all know that THJ's offer sheet came from Mills. Perry and Fiz are the most influential, I'd suggest, and they are more new.

They literally raised this yesterday when referring to part of why they traded KP. They felt that he was judging them based on what happened with Phil, said they were new and were trying their way with hopes he would buy in. It was probably the combination of factors that led to him being moved, but when you have an injured star who we don't know how he will look, on a very bad team, and is threatening to possibly bolt, and isn't really buying in, what would you do and what do you think that does to his value?

Did you listen to that podcast I posted or watch that ESPN video? I'm curious what you think about their comments given that I'm noticing you repeating yourself and not responding to some points made.

[PrezIke]

Knick fan hero, and self-awareness master, Enes Kanter:

https://twitter.com/Schmeelk/status/1091547675403657216

I'm not going to defend Enes's Knick knocks - he was acted like a real jerk and far exceeded his "juice".  But I will just add this. I work in Turkey and have quite a number of liberal, progressive Turkish friends.  In 2007/8 there was this ill defined conspiracy "case" called Ergenekon.  The Ergenekon  case was very ill defined and hazy but it totally freaked out western oriented Turks and continues to do so up until now.  It was the first time the Gulanists came to the attention of the west.  It also was broadly defined as a case of a Turkish "Deep State." (Which ultimately has become part of the far right code in the US and elsewhere in the West).

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

I've said this here and elsewhere, but nothing I say about him has to do with his political stance and risk he takes regarding it.

I admire and respect him for that, no question. Erdogan is not exactly someone I support in any way whatsoever. I have Turkish friends who are afraid to return as well over their own views and activities. There are plenty of issues to criticize including from Kurds who we all know have had long standing issues with the government, and that was long before the coup attempt.

What Enes is doing as a Knick now, to the team and fans, however, is where my beef lays specifically.

[Jack Straw]

Yup, I agree Prez...

the only small distinction I am making, is that Enes' political situation maybe broadly affecting his overall perspective on everything, and if he's tense, vulnerable, threatened, his sense and proportions as an NBA player are probably "off".  Not excusing it, just saying the guy is probably half out of his mind on any given day, wondering if his çorba and ekmek have been tainted - is that really so far out of the question...

[lesterluv]

So two minutes shy of noon.

Amazing amount of stuff going on with the Knicks and around the league, but based on what we've seen so far, I'm still going to set today's over-under on Kanter-hate clown posts at ... 27.



***keep on keeping on boys:)

[elephant]

Smith.   iffy
Number 1.    2.5 years out -- but an asset
Second #1.   4.5 years or more out -- guaranteed 11th or lower
Glimpses at Wes and the Giant.   Maybe can re-sign Wes at MLE
Room for one 7 year max free agent.   Cap space
Room for second 7 or 10 year free agent.    Cap space

So basically got very very little.  For a an-star caliber player.
Either the cap space pays off (as in at least one all-star level guy), or the whole thing is a total fiasco.

With KZ, you could see guys like Kawhi, Kyrie, Durant possiblywanting to come.  Now we just nix our betas player, have a team of whozits and kiddies, and  it's harder to imagine two top level guys wanting to hop on over to struggle getting NYK in shape.  NY looks like a mess, a place to avoid.  And it's really all-in, because why would one top player come here?  So you almost have to land 2.  Good luck.

Isn't it easier for KD, Kyrie, Kawhi, Butler to stay where they are -- all in winning situations -- or move to another winning team.  Lakes and Clips for example look much more promising.

I now wonder which alternative actually gives us a better chance of landing one of these superstars. You talk about guys who "possibly" might want to come here to play with KP. But unlike these other dudes, KP never proved himself the "superstar." It was always about his potential for greatness. Plus he had a major injury, has been out a long time, and no one knows — no one — whether he'll fully recover his mojo.

With the non-KP scenario, if we just get ONE of these motherfuckers — KD or Kyrie or Butler — it gets far easier to get the second, no? In this case, they know they're coming to a team with another GREAT player in his prime AND a crew of strong young players.

Okay, okay, maybe this is just something I'm telling myself. But I think the current scenario gives us a better chance to land a superstar than the one we had a week ago.

[thebizneverloses]

Scenario a)
If we get Zion, I think we have an excellent chance at getting two of Durant/Kawhi/Kyrie/Klay/Kemba/Butler/Tobias/Middleton/Bledsoe...obviously you only bring in the some of the latter guys at max or near max money if it's necessary to get one of the first I'd say three guys. And I don't think Kawhi even takes a meeting in NY, tbh. But still, Zion/all-star/all-star (or all-star-ish)/Knox/Ntilikina/Robinson/Dotson/possibly IsoZo/Room Exception/vet mins eager to play at MSG will be exciting! And, yes, more so if we trade all of the supporting cast for Anthony Davis.

I think if Zion is drafted, we get two all-stars here. Possibly two all-NBA guys.

Scenario b)
Let's say we don't win the lottery. 86% chance and all. Is RJ going to be viewed as a draw to any of those top notch free agents? I think yes. Is he going to be interesting enough as a centrepiece to NOLA? Again, I think yes but it might cost an extra future 1st. I wonder if NOLA will be more keen to do the trade if they, in fact, win the lottery...

I think the odds are less of attracting the big names, but not hugely less.

Scenario c)
What if it's Ja Morant or Cam Reddish or (shudder) Bol Bol or some other player in one of the tiers well below Zion? The Knicks obviously have a win-now mentality and it's not clear that any of those guys are going to be viewed as playoff ready. I think the odds of attracting free agents takes a hit, and I think the chances of acquiring Davis also do (unless Kyrie is determined to leave Boston for New York and then it really becomes a question of whether the Pelicans prefer Zo/Ingram/Hart/Zubac or Knox/DSJ/Reddish/Ntilikina).

Anyhow, if, as should mathematically be expected, the Knicks pick lower than second in the draft, I don't think Anthony Davis is coming. I think Durant + Kyrie is a possibility but not a great one. And I would hope the Knicks would prefer to be humble and extend the rebuild than, say, max out Kemba Walker and Khris Middleton. I love a lot about both players! But the ceiling on the franchise becomes pretty low at that point.

[Kam]

Knick fan hero, and self-awareness master, Enes Kanter:

https://twitter.com/Schmeelk/status/1091547675403657216

Does he have people?  Someone needs to tell him to STFU.

[Kam]

Kanter has staked out a very dangerous political position (and can't return to Turkey as long as Erdogan and the AKP are in power).  This all to say, that in may way Enes is living in a different and dangerous world in which he is under a lot of stress.

jes sayin'....

And this engenders sympathy from some of the fan base.  Everything he does is about garnering sympathy.  For his plight... either the Knicks are screwing him or Turkey is.  He is the guy who is screwed over and wants everyone to know.

That act gets old.  Just saying.