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Who will win Game 5 of the NBA Finals?

Warriors
- 1 (33.3%)
Celtics
- 2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM


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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 1191864 times)

bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #4260 on: February 05, 2019, 10:45:28 AM »

Was watching Nets lose to MIL.
In garbage time Nets had a team of Whozits out there.
I'm already used to relative unknowns Kurucs and Aussie Mitch Creek and Theo Pinson.  But Dzanan Musa and Alan Williams (undrafted guy who played parts of 3 years with PHX).

Pinson a hustle guy with a suspect shot.
Kurucs looks pretty good on both ends.  But Bucks were taking it at him for profit, despite Kurucs being in good position.  Had 5 fouls.

Creek plays bigger than his listed 6'5".  Had 8 / 5 /4 in a nice game v. MIL.  Aside from getting blocked twice by Anti-Greek.

Musa was a 1st rounder (#29 pick).  Listed as a 6'9" SG.  Didn't get to see what he could do in 8 minutes (his season high).  Missed a trio of triples.

Nets sure have a lot of undrafted guys.  Trev Graham started (30%FG for the year).

DMC was awful.  Was trying but looked like he was running in mud.  Tangelo with one of those distracted looking games.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #4261 on: February 05, 2019, 10:46:06 AM »

Uh, KZ was one of the pups.
And our most promising path of developing form within . . .
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #4262 on: February 05, 2019, 10:53:56 AM »

As for a BOS offer for AD.
You have to figure it'd involve Tatum and Rozier.
Tatum a prized young up-and-comer.
NOPe needs a PG next to JRue.

Then to make the numbers work, you either have to add in Smart, or BOS takes on Sol Hill and NOPe takes Hayward's enormous contract.
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #4263 on: February 05, 2019, 11:33:15 AM »

They are doing what they always do, Use the name of Knicks to get the deal to LA done.  We are not interested,  AD is always hurt, true he is a great player but I'd wait to see if we get Zion.  Knox is getting better, Trier is getting better, Mudiay getting better, Now we got DSJ.  We slowly building a team.  Everybody needs to stop being so impatient and let the Pups grow.  we may have a decent team before it's all said and done. We should not gut the team for another so called star.  LET THE PUPS GROW.

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Good to read someone who don’t wanna throw out all the fin’ babies with the bath water.

No, better to throw the babies out for bath water.
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thebizneverloses

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Question for Bankshot
« Reply #4264 on: February 05, 2019, 12:17:35 PM »

Can the Boston faithful forgive Kyrie? Will it all be water under the bridge if he re-signs? How's he going to be viewed in the meantime?

Bill Simmons had some nasty heat-of-the-moment tweets.
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PrezIke

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #4265 on: February 05, 2019, 12:29:48 PM »

Listening to Open Floor pod with some comments regarding the Knicks:

https://twitter.com/TheCrossover/status/1092815147733843969

Quote
Andrew Sharp: [sounding exasperated] The idea that they're just gonna stockpile draft picks and then slowly build a title contender that way.

Ben Golliver: [laughing in background] What you are trying to say is Frank Ntilikina is not going to bring you a ring.

Andrew Sharp: [laughing] Exactly!

Ben Golliver: Kevin Knox and Frankie are not gonna get you a championship

Andrew Sharp: [laughing] And neither is Porzingis! The reality is if you go down the list of teams that have won titles in the last 30 years its very rare that you win it with home grown players....If it's not a #1 pick or HOFer it's rare that you can build a title team around [them]. If you draft Tim Duncan, one of the 10 best players of all time yes, you can 5 titles with your home grown draft picks. Had you just had Manu and Toney Parker you're not winning a title with those guys. Same deal with the Warriors.

Ben Golliver: I think your real point here is that Porzingis is not Tim Duncan...

Andrew Sharp: My point with the draft picks conversation is I saw a lot of people chiding the Knicks for not building "the right way" when I actually think there are a handful of teams around the NBA who actually can  if they take care of the foundation, hire a good coach and clear cap space can go sign superstars and that gives a much better chance of winning a title than just betting the next 8 years on draft picks. The Knicks are one of them.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 12:43:04 PM by PrezIke »
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #4266 on: February 05, 2019, 12:58:27 PM »

Don't know who those people are, but they don't seem so well informed.

Homegrown warriors- Green, Curry, Thompson.  They mention the Spurs.  James left Cleveland, they didn't trade him.  And obviously would have won more than once had they kept him.  There is no big three in Miami if the Heat had traded Wade.  Lakers; Bryant.  Dallas; Dirk.

Its a stupid argument.

Better argument is the one I made when the trade first happened.  What team found success by trading their 23 year old franchise player for cap space?

...
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lesterluv

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #4267 on: February 05, 2019, 01:17:56 PM »

Yeah, kind of dumb. As you point out, homegrown actually has been key & in fact the past is littered with cap space clearing that's come to naught. And absolutely nobody would expect Franc + Kevin to bring a title. Nor Porzingis to be Duncan. Who is? He can be Klay. What's the point?
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #4268 on: February 05, 2019, 01:28:38 PM »

Past is a clear guide.  Winners build, at least partially, via the draft.  And you don't build a super-team starting with a roster no super-star would want to play with.

Who knows, maybe in the end the Knicks might luck into something.  Or maybe Durant really has promised to come here.  But pretty amazing to hear someone try to justify the trade with an argument about history.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 01:30:33 PM by NeedsAdjustments »
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lesterluv

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #4269 on: February 05, 2019, 02:23:45 PM »

Anyway. Today, let's just be glad we are not the Wizards. Jeez....

https://nypost.com/2019/02/05/john-wall-will-miss-12-months-after-slip-and-fall-at-home/
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PrezIke

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #4270 on: February 05, 2019, 02:30:37 PM »

Don't know who those people are, but they don't seem so well informed.

Homegrown warriors- Green, Curry, Thompson.  They mention the Spurs.  James left Cleveland, they didn't trade him.  And obviously would have won more than once had they kept him.  There is no big three in Miami if the Heat had traded Wade.  Lakers; Bryant.  Dallas; Dirk.

Its a stupid argument.

Better argument is the one I made when the trade first happened.  What team found success by trading their 23 year old franchise player for cap space?

...

So, I edited out part of what they said about GS as they refer to your point, meaning the HG players outside of Curry, who is of course one of the best players in the world. The real point is that they don't see KP as the same caliber as those two at this point, someone to just surround with all of the young players the Knicks currently have. That they all have a good chance to become on the level of Green, Clay, etc. for the Knicks. You do, it seems, or correct me if I am wrong.

Would you argue for this idea (KP + draft picks developing = title contender) even if the Knicks don't get the #1 pick this year?

I think that's hard but if the Knicks get the #1 pick, that COULD work, but according to your logic and the problem they raise, is would we really say the probability of the Knicks getting Zion is better (we know the odds) is greater than using cap space to sign 2 big FA's this summer?

I don't think so, nor do they.

We shall see. No?

Also, their point was outside of Curry btw, their HG talent, Clay & Green, on their own would not make them a title contender. That's what they are talking about and the idea of using HG talent as the PRIMARY way to create a title contending team with KP is what they are worried about compared to big FA's this summer + more flexibility with the picks + DSJ, and bad contracts gone.

The other teams you are referring to, mostly, did not primarily use their picks to build the rest of the team at all. You listed one star player, but we are talking about 1 drafted star + the other draft players. That's what the discussion is about, and also this is key as the '20 FA market is not good at all, so you have to wait 2 summers, or make trades with assets/picks (one option that is better after the KP trade).

Here's one thing they said that may refer to your sentiments:

Sharp: My thoughts on that trade last week come down to my read on Porzingis. If you're a Knicks fan who just loved Porzingis and didn't want to see them trade him, then I totally see why you wouldn't like the trade. If you're a Knicks fan who thought Porzingis was going to be the cornerstone of a title winning team, I think you're probably wrong, but that's another reason to not like it."

Everything else I posted by them earlier was referring how some have "chided the Knicks for not building the right way" and showing why that is not accurate because at least Sharp contends that what the Knicks are doing gives them a "much better chance at winning the title than betting the next 8 years on draft picks."

Does that make more sense?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 02:39:08 PM by PrezIke »
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PrezIke

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #4271 on: February 05, 2019, 02:58:56 PM »

https://static.nytimes.com/email-content/MSB_10011.html

Quote
The Knicks spent much of January quietly canvassing the league for potential Porzingis trades, according to a person familiar with the talks who was not authorized to discuss them publicly. They tried for untouchables such as Utah’s Donovan Mitchell and Sacramento’s De’Aaron Fox and, predictably, were rebuffed.

But the Knicks knew all along that the Mavericks had the wherewithal to meet many of their trade objectives, and, just as crucially, that Dallas was generally unfazed by Porzingis’s injury history.

Quote
Perhaps you are a Smith skeptic. Or just a Knicks skeptic. Those are both understandable positions. But a trade that returns three quality assets in addition to creating the kind of salary-cap space this summer that the Knicks must have to chase Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving is no salary dump.

It’s a gamble, true, and one that could go numerous directions depending on how free agency and Porzingis’s career play out. But it is an undeniable haul.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 03:01:37 PM by PrezIke »
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Kam

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Re: 4 first round picks for AD?
« Reply #4272 on: February 05, 2019, 03:58:33 PM »


Make it five first rounders (three Knicks, both of the Mavs picks). Throw in second rounders. But, really, we're not getting AD without giving up at least two of Knox/DSJ/Ntilikina in addition to our pick

We would be also taking on Solomon Hill.

Knox
2019 #1
DSJ
IsoZo

PLUS Salary (Kanter Lance)

Plus 


HOW MANY #1s gets it done?
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Kam

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No toad
« Reply #4273 on: February 05, 2019, 05:06:00 PM »

I think we can make a trade for AD...

...but we wouldn't want to pay the Pelican's price.
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FWK00

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Re: 4 first round picks for AD?
« Reply #4274 on: February 05, 2019, 06:25:56 PM »


Make it five first rounders (three Knicks, both of the Mavs picks). Throw in second rounders. But, really, we're not getting AD without giving up at least two of Knox/DSJ/Ntilikina in addition to our pick

We would be also taking on Solomon Hill.

Knox
2019 #1
DSJ
IsoZo

PLUS Salary (Kanter Lance)

Plus 


HOW MANY #1s gets it done?

Look, there's at least two chess games going on aside from the Lake show.  In the big picture, Boston is terrified of the rising Knicks' fortunes.  With AD, Boston would dominate the East at exactly the time our guys are mature enough to compete.  The Knicks would spend another decade getting out under the thumb of Boston.

So, those are the real stakes in the East.

Now,  I do think the Knicks have the goods to acquire AD - no, he wouldn't come inexpensively.  But I think that's why Frankie's name is still being bantered about as trade bait - strictly for an AD exchange.

IMO, The Knicks would be sending Knox, Frankie, Vonleh, Robinson, Kanter, Lance, and four future #1s (not 2019), and some cash to buyout Kanter for AD, Hill, and Payton (or a useful third player).

NO can tank all on their own this year and have a very nice foundation for two years out.
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