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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[FWK00]

If there every was a year to introduce a system and stick to it hell or high water, this was it.  I don't care if we sign five FAs all of whom are great - I don't see a systematic foundation for playing any kind of even "let's pretend"  the right way.

Completely disagree.  This was a year for individual development.  And team losing.  We didn't need a system because we have few legit starters and plenty of players who won't be back.

Once we get some legit starters we can worry about implementing a style of play.  Next year.  This year was getting players up to NBA level and gaining experience.

As for Franc, I'm not that down on him.  I'm still counting on him developing as a PG.  But if he's not at least a backup PG, then his role/usefulness will be rather limited.

IMO, implementing some system basics is good for players as well as staff, IMO. Yes, the point would have been losing but the mindfulness of it would have been worthwhile.

I didn't see much individual development per se.  Some players got minutes and made the best of them but I'm not chalking that up to development.  Franc I thought lost more than gained.

[FWK00]

https://medium.com/@getxpire/how-we-used-ai-to-make-nba-players-dance-2fdbe6c63a97

[kiidcarter8]

No Kawhi......

[carlos123]

No Kawhi......

No that they needed him 🤬

[PrezIke]

The most useless ranking I've ever seen.
After his Top 4, he says:

all 13 of these guys are really interchangeable to me. The players separated by only slashes are seriously tied and I can put them in a different order based on seeing a single good or bad possession. That’s how close it is.

Why bother with any rankings if you're just going to punt and say Well everybody's roughly equal.  Geez.  And zero analysis of what anyone's strengths or weaknesses are.  What did he have, a 2 minute deadline, and he quickly whipped that out?  Embarrassing.  Almost the definition of a useless internet article.  And you're going to panic based on that?  Jeez x 2.

So glad to know your snide side has dissipated over the years.

Did I steal your lunch money or something? Sheesh.

Maybe I'm off, but I've felt you've had the same swift, dismissive reaction (or have ignored my responses) at times to of a number of things I've posted (including the podcasts from an intelligent defense of the KP trade in a podcast which I tried to quote), making very strong and rude statements from what seems clear to me without doing much investigation.

You basically have no idea what you are talking about, yet somehow you felt comfortable saying " Embarrassing.  Almost the definition of a useless internet article."

The article was not intended to break down every player. They've already done that. It's also not "his" rankings. It's what they have come to conclusions as a group based on data.

You are making yourself look foolish.

Here's the article you expected breaking down their views of players (from midseason) and their latest rankings...satisfied?

https://www.thestepien.com/2019/01/25/spencer-pearlmans-midseason-big-board/

https://www.thestepien.com/2019-draft-rankings/

That article is making the point of where things are according to their findings. There is not a whole lot to get excited about if you don't get the #1 pick. Capiche? It's showing how weak the draft is in tiers that might more typically have more highly rated talent and on top of this it's hard to differentiate in that range. It's so bad, according to their findings, that getting pick 2-4 is not worth drafting at that slot and better to trade down, but not THAT far down as you can see their findings indicate 8-10 are also worth trading down. How all that makes the article worthless I really fail to understand for someone I consider as educated as yourself.

oh...yeah...there's this to help understand some of what they use to come to conclusions (on Pearlman's last appearance on KFS he said that we now have a good amount of data for players on the top NCAA teams who play against top competition regularly enough, i.e. Barrett):

https://www.thestepien.com/player-distribution-tool/

https://www.thestepien.com/shot-chart/

So, using, you know...DATA. That not acceptable?

Really striking that you came to such a harsh conclusion so fast. Strange and sad really.

I've been listening to the Spencer Pearlman, who's been commenting all season on the Knicks Film School pod about concerns regarding this draft, including Barrett whose numbers/ratings do not show him to be something to get too excited about:

https://knicksfilmschool.com/2019/03/16/knicks-film-school-podcast-pre-tourney-prospect-review-knicks-draft-board-with-spencer-pearlman/

He was also picked up locally to discuss the draft last month:

https://wfan.radio.com/media/audio-channel/spencer-pearlman-2019-nba-draft

Did you bother to explore the site? Of course not because your response would have read different. It's like you take one piece of info and if it doesn't immediately satisfy what you were looking for, even if that's not the point...it's crap.

Am I wrong? Is that too much work? Just like you didn't listen to the pod I directed you to defending the KP trade, or probably won't listen to the pods I post here, because you act like you know more and it's really fucking obnoxious and why posting on here can be wack and not even interesting. It's a pissing contest for grumpy old men.

[lesterluv]

This was a year for individual development.  And team losing.  We didn't need a system because we have few legit starters and plenty of players who won't be back.

Nobody "develops" playing in trash soup. The teams that have built and progressed implemented winning ways even though they lost plenty at first and players shuffled in-and-out. Fizdale talks complete crap. His big trick is to throw a g-leaguer into the starting lineup or the last minute of a close game to "show confidence." Long run, however, you just have a bunch of guys running around who can't play.

[bodiddley]

I read the link you gave and it was worthless.  I explained why.
Really I thought that article was draft trolling -- intentional fear-mongering -- and you took the bait.
I had/have no comment on the entire site it came from. 

The new stepien link at least has some beginning of analysis and all the slots filled in.  Let me know when they move beyond 3 or 4 word evaluations and maybe graduate to full sentences.

I'm not going to start listening to podcasts to know what you think/agree with.  You can simply summarize or give your views along with such links.  Next thing I'm going to have to listen to Talk Radio (the Mad Dog if he's not in jail) to get kiid's take on the Knix.

So you're in favor of trading down if not the #1 pick?
kiid will undoubtedly join you.  He never wants to hold position.
But in his case I think it stems from an elusive desire to never be wrong on a draft.  It's a handy backup.  Well, I said we should have traded up/down/lived in an alternate universe.

I'm not a draftnik and completely ignorant of the college game.  So rely on what I pick up here and from other sites.  Your fave site has Reddish very low and Culver very high.  If so, Reddish may be a good trade down option (?)

Cool to see there's a Georgian player in their late lottery (Clyde's from Georgia  ...  I kid)

[kiidcarter8]

I think I made it fairly clear Barrett is my pick at #2.  Have a Coke and a smile.

[kiidcarter8]

Nobody "develops" playing in trash soup.

Good line.

[kiidcarter8]

Thanks for the links, Prez.  Point made.

[bodiddley]

Gaining experience and confidence is part of development.  So is bouncing back from bad games.  And figuring out how your skills translate to an NBA role.  And learning what you need to work on.

IMO:
Mitch developed and is already a legit 15-20 min rotation player.
Datsun developed and also looks like he belongs in an NBA rotation.
- Not bad for a  pair of 2nd rounders.

I think both Mud and Trier developed.  Their flaws were also on display, but they both showed growth and potential, and that they have some reliable skills.
Vonleh had a strong, steady first half of the season.  Check.
Knox absorbed a ton of minutes and entered the school of hard knox at times.  This should be good for his future.  He's still growing into his body.
Kornet improved on defense.

That's half the team who developed/improved/gained useful experience.   7 of the 9 who were here all season benefitted from this year under Fizz.  Not bad for castoffs, 2nd rounders and pups.  The two other guys with the team the whole year were Franc & Zonja who struggled with injuries and poor play and didn't have good years.

Other roster spots are held by either new additions, didn't play much or both.  Jr. Smith not here long enough.
Lance is who he is, will be gone, and didn't play much.
DeAndre a newly-added vet who can work in a system next year if still here.
Kadeem, Jenkins, Hellenson -- limited mins in limited games, but each has had a good game or two.

NY fans always in a rush.
We have perhaps the youngest team in the League.
So you can't expect consistency or wins or good defense.
We'll start building that up next year from scratch, when hopefully we've added one or two legit starters.  Rotations and units and such will begin to crystallize.  But unless we hit a grand slam in FA, this is a multi year process which started from Less than Zero last Summer.

[lesterluv]

Of course there's some improvement through minutes alone — but not nearly as much as would have been with a coach who walked the walk. Pretty minimal overall. Coming from his background, Mitch had nowhere to go but huge up with any significant time. Datsun, yes, generally upward. Trier is basically the same player he was week one. Vonleh not much different. Knox still looks like crap most of the time then has a decent offensive performance once-in-awhile. Kornet is actually far less impactful then initially after the five minutes it took for the league to figure out you got a throw a hand at him on the perimeter and he'll miss.

I'm not in a rush. I don't expect consistency or wins or good defense.

But I expect improved defense, improved game situation performance, improved team play, improved court awareness, improved ball movement. That you build on. That you take with you. That's the first step in the multi-year process.

Trash soup delivered.
Crap coach by all we've seen so far. All IMHO.

[thebizneverloses]

I've been reading The Stepian all year. There's fantastic material there, one of the best sites on the draft.

That said, this was a terrible article. There's much better stuff elsewhere on the site.

I don't advocate trading down normally because it's really hard to do. Very few of those trades can be pulled off. But it's really easy to claim before/after every draft that the team should draft out of a position. If you're looking for lazy analysis, look to the guy who says trade out of the pick.

All that said, I think RJ is really underrated by the stat heads because his intangibles don't show up. And Morant has a tonne of potential although NY is a bad spot for him. So maybe it's a three person draft, but after the second pick, I'm less excited for the Knicks. I'd definitely take calls about trading down, sure, why not. But if not, I'm excited to learn about more of those "Tier 3" guys, because a couple of them are likely to turn out to be bonafide starters, and quite a few busts.

[Kam]

Yeah a lot of these young kids are going to develop with minutes.  The coach controls minutes.  So Fizdale could be the worst strategic and motivational coach in the world but some players will still get better if he gives them minutes.

So i'm not going to say Mitch is Mitch because of Fizz.  But the minutes helped.   (And fwiw Mitch has credited Fizz a good deal with his success.)

Fizdale entertains me more than our previous coaches.  I don't know if he's been good.   Grade?  Can't see giving him anything better than a C minus.  You give him an F?   OK.  That's fine.   

Bigger fish to fry.  Those fish are named Perry and Mills.

[Kam]

Regarding the article PrezIke initially posted,  I saw all the negative comments to it first, and then i went back and clicked on the link.  I actually appreciated the opinion espoused that the 2, 3, and 4 slots were worth less than in a normal draft.   

I always wish draft sites listed players drafted at the position in recent years.... so you have an idea at the relative talent that you should expect with a #2 pick.   I didnt see their analysis of prior drafts but i appreciate the NEW opinion that if RJ Barrett is the #2 in this draft... he would've been #7 last year (for example).  That lets you know the strength of the draft.

Now the advice to trade down is easier said than done.  I don't feel comfortable doing that and watching RJ become a stud so we can take a "safer" pick.

So the link was a mixed bag from a good site.  I have no regrets clicking.