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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[facilitatorn]

Maybe they’re doing it but keeping it under wraps. 2am practices followed by film sessions and early breakfast from the secret training menu at the Wine&Dine. Halo drops on a dark summer’s night onto the island of St. Croix. Moving and groovin like disco ninjas.

The only way we’ll ever know is to see if the players get smarter and better. That, and what kind of flavor they bring to their wardrobes.

[kiidcarter8]

There seems to be a 2 decade trend of not utilizing Clyde.

As facil mentions, Fizz has been bringing in Bernard and Sheed to work with and talk to players.  And other ex-Knix have spoken to the team.

Pat Cummings and Neal Walk are coming to help Mitch when we let DeAndre leave.

[lesterluv]

Harden has improved his defense significantly.
GOne are the days when he just spaces out or doesn't bother to react or loses his man totally.  his post defense was surprisingly effective, and I think I read that he was posted up more than any other player.  I don't think HOU is a genuine contender this year and last without Harden playing acceptable defense.  Especially this year after letting Ariza and Luc M&M go.

Knox is athletic, has a good frame, good size, should add muscle easily.  I see no reason he can't become a solid defender. 

Yes. There is a reason. You haven't talked about what's between the ears.

And lol, I can't believe Harden's name is even coming up in a discussion of Knox...spectacular, can always count on Kam to amaze and astound

[lesterluv]

and R.I.P. Pat Cummings, he brought it for us back during the tough years, or what we thought back at the time were the tough years.

[bodiddley]

Knox seems pretty grounded and mature for 19.
I'd be more confident saying what Knox can and can't do if he played on a more talented organized team, rather than the extended Summer League we just witnessed (which yes, I heartily endorsed).

Knox seems willing to put in the work, doesn't seem to be easily distracted by NYC (hard to know for the fans).  Knix need to implement a development and conditioning program for him.

Encouraging:
- Knox was pretty dominant and aggressive in Summer League.
- Knox was frequently able to dominate a quarter (usually in the 1st half).  Sometimes he looked a bit gassed in the 2nd half. 
75 games and nearly 30 mins per is a lot to ask of a rook. 
- Even in a very up and down year, Knox finished at 34% on 3's.

We knew that Knix chose a young somewhat raw player whose risk/reward factor was high.  I said before the season that the more seasoned Bridges would likely have better rook seasons than Knox.  We are/were looking for the long-term.  On a better team, Knox would have been brought along slower and played less.  All the court time is terrific experience but put his teenage flaws on display too.

Of course the plan, at the time, was to build around a very young core of KZ, Knox, Franc, and hopefully some of Mitch, Trier, Datsun.  Now we've switched to all-in on vet FA's, which again likely won't give Knox the chance to grow and develop slowly.  But the Knix are always about changing the overall plan.

[facilitatorn]

We’ll go shopping among the FAs, but I hope we’re not necessarily buying in a big way unless it looks like a home run. Otherwise I want to see smaller moves to get us either upgrades from what a particular kid is likely to grow into or players who slot in with said youth. The team has to have the balls and brains to bat away the striking out noise that would come from the media if they took that path.

[bodiddley]

So you think there's a chance the Knix either whiff on FA or pull back and stick with the yute development program?
Seems like the smart backup, but it's felt like the Knix are pretty all-in on (the next quick fix). 

I think trading Knox now while he has decent value is extremely shortsighted.  But if you add KD and Kyrie, then can you really trot out and year 20 year old who is going to make mistakes, while playing well in spurts?

Forgot to mention Knox highlights:
Rook of Month in December
a 31 point game
15 rebound game
Not bad for 19.
Yeah, he took his lumps too.

[lesterluv]

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2019/3/7/18253643/kevin-knox-has-been-historically-bad-heres-the-stats-to-prove-it

 [....] The defense is equally appalling. According to Cleaning the Glass, the Knicks have a defensive rating of 117.3 points per 100 possessions (fifth percentile) when Knox is on the court. Knox’s on-off differential is +5.9, meaning the Knicks are roughly six points worse when Knox is on the court. That figure is in the seventh percentile of all wing players.

You might be thinking, “Drew, single-player on-off figures are noisy because there are so many variables that can affect the numbers.” While this is a fair assessment, the adjusted plus-minus figures that control for those factors also support the claim that Knox is a disaster on defense. Knox is 491st of 494 players in defensive RPM (-3.94), 504th of 508 players in defensive RAPM (-1.75), and 485th out of 511 players in defensive PIPM (-1.. Quick tangent, for some reason PIPM via BBall Index rounds its figure to the nearest tenth and seven players share a figure of -1.8 in DPIPM. Knox may very well be ranked at 485 or have the worst -1.8 figure when the integer is expanded to the hundreth.

PIPM is more forgiving on Knox’s defense than RPM and RAPM, but even if you subscribe to that silver lining, this is very concerning. It’s one thing to be a negative on defense as a rookie in these metrics because, well, you’re young and need to adjust to the speed of the NBA. It’s a whole other thing to be filtering with the worst figures in the entire league and regularly being unaware on the floor like Knox is.

And it’s more than just “worst in the league” for this specific season for Kevin Knox. Since RPM has been available on ESPN (2013–14 season), Knox’s -7.37 RPM is the sixth-worst of all time. Of players who averaged more than 20 minutes per game, Knox has the worst RPM of all time. Over that same time frame for RAPM, Knox’s -3.45 RAPM is the 31st-worst of that sample. Of players who have played more than 1,600 minutes (Knox has played 1,602 minutes so far this season), Knox has the 10th-worst RAPM of that sample.

Let’s also bring BPM into the discussion, because it too isn’t forgiving of Knox. Of the 25-minutes-per-game qualified rookies, Knox has the worst BPM figure (-6.4) of the group. Only Antonio Blakeney and Jamal Crawford have worse BPM figures than Knox this season, and neither player has reached the 1,000 minute mark. Of all players who have played at least 1,600 minutes in a season, Knox’s -6.4 BPM is the second-worst all time during the 3-Point Era. Only John Amaechi posted a nice worse -6.9 BPM in the 2000–01 season.

If you want to point to things such as “he’s young” or “he’s on team where he’s being asked too much” or “he’s in the 62nd percentile in pick-and-roll ball handling and transition points per possession” or “he has a nice floater already,” that’s fine. Some aspects of his game should theoretically improve as Knox gets stronger and gains more experience as a professional.

Even if Knox does improve, it does not change the fact that his impact on the court is, in many cases, the worst in history during specific ranges of NBA seasons. We aren’t talking about a flawed player on one side of the ball, either. Frank Ntilikina took a lot of crap from Knicks fans last year about his play — understandably, given how poor he still is on offense — but he at least had a 1.41 defensive RAPM that was second on the team behind Kristaps Porzingis and ranked 44th in the entire NBA. Knox is posting extremely poor offensive and defensive numbers.



... of course, there's the eye test, too...

*** That's what I used, personally. I don't even know what all those numbers mean, but they sound harrrrrrrrrrrible.


**** but you're feeling good about him, Bo, body, mind and soul so here's hoping you're correct.


OT:

** Q: Anyone think Bryn Forbes and Derrick White could've been doing what they were doing last night if they were "developed" by FizDale?

[kiidcarter8]

Adding a top 5 NBA player and a running mate still in their primes is a "quick fix" now, eh?  While also having a top 5 pick and 6 other first rounders the next 5 years?

Okey doke.

[kiidcarter8]

Re:  Knox's playing time if we do get Durant+ -

I'd love to see him coming off the bench - but I believe Fizdale with start him.

[kiidcarter8]

Congratulations by the way for noting Bridges would better Knox in year 1.  I believe Knicks thought otherwise.

Nice looking rook in Charlotte.

[bodiddley]

Adding a top 5 NBA player and a running mate still in their primes is a "quick fix" now, eh?  While also having a top 5 pick and 6 other first rounders the next 5 years?
Okey doke.

Trying to go from a 17 W league youngest team to a playoff contender in one year is almost the definition of quick fix.

And there would be ripples and ramifications.  We wouldn't have money for much else.  There'd be a lot of pressure to contend right away, as 30-something Durant doesn't have years to waste.
Knix would probably try to nab a savvy vet or two on the very cheap.  Would likely be packaging out Franc and at least one of Trier/Dot, and maybe Knox, for young vet types.  [something like flipping Knox + for a Hollis-Jefferson type of solid unspectacular role player -- just to whip out an example].

If Kyrie came, likely Jr. Smith would be made available.
Knix wouldn't be able to afford developing and waiting on 2nd and 3rd year players.  So likely we'd have lots of new faces who haven't played together before.  And some patchwork role players.
I'm guessing that only Mitch, Datsun and maybe Kornet would return/remain.  Despite Two Star FA's and a Top 5 draft pick, the Knix would face an uphill peace of mind to get everyone on the same page and become a strong contending team.

[thebizneverloses]

Kid, Fac- updated scores sent

[kiidcarter8]

"....as 30-something Durant..."

Clear you think he is another Marbury or Carmelo

That's real funny.

[kiidcarter8]

My apologies - "quick fix", on this board, usually connotes an air of negativity.