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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 165667 times)

PrezIke

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6360 on: June 15, 2019, 10:46:40 PM »

So likely we'll suck for longer and/or sign a gimpy 31 year old KD to come back at 33 because he can shoot.

Looking forward to RJ killing it in summer league and being hailed an all-star immediately. Wait...didn't that happen last summer with Knox? Was I dreaming???

1 for sure, 2 probably, and possibly 3 more years of trash lies ahead. Maybe Mitch becomes a superstar, while our past forever haunts us.

Rationalization of what things are like for us: Enjoy "the growth" of young players that have some quality, but mostly rated less highly than our fans do.

Reality: Watch out for the Nets growing into the team for the new NY each year even if we have a FAR more dedicated, yet OLDER, fanbase. (Barclays full still a tomb)

I know...way to see things is stay the course, "accumulate assets" (Welcome to being an NBA fan...one of the least friendly leagues to casual fandom for understanding team construction and more conducive to lawyers, economists and internet nerrds) and merely "wait" for when "the next NBA star" asks to be traded.

I see more and more why fans follow the good teams or just star players and why teams are increasingly secondary. It happens in a lot of sports globally more so now unless you follow a team like the Lakers who get what they want due to reputation. It's all about neoliberal capitalism, a love story. We came close to this with KD, so that's something, but next summer is a complete joke for free agency as we know, so not sure how that's going to work for us at all.

So, 1-2 more seasons of mediocrity likely at best, baring a trade of "assets" hence why we're apparently still willing to sign KD.

That's a spin job on a very sad situation that basically means I am more in the go young and suck, yet questions about the new NBA lottery system makes that more complicated. Grapple with all that and it's just too difficult to really come to a fair understanding of what makes most sense. I don't envy Perry and Mills at all right now.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 10:51:47 PM by PrezIke »
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6361 on: June 15, 2019, 10:50:27 PM »

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PrezIke

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6362 on: June 15, 2019, 10:55:25 PM »

Herschel Walker trade redux

https://www.nba.com/article/2019/06/15/report-anthony-davis-lakers?collection=news

Except one superstar player in the NBA vs one superstar player in the NFL have drastically different meanings, especially if the team already has one.

Also, the only player on an NFL team that you should make a trade like that for is a quarterback, and even that is complicated.

The Lakers are currently favorites to win the title.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 10:56:57 PM by PrezIke »
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PrezIke

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6363 on: June 15, 2019, 11:18:53 PM »

I don't see anyone signing KD being a smart idea. It's like flipping a coin to me. Willing to bet hundreds of millions on that? NBA teams like us are because the superstar value is so insane.

That's why the Lakers gave up the farm and the front porch. Miami/Riley obliterated everyone years ago to create a super team in one summer.

The outlook is much bleaker now for us. It's pretty much Lebron's decision part 2 right now, IMHO.

Last time we went for Amare. This time...different, I expect, but still a blow that might lead to success later, but might not as I don't see any clear superstars coming now.

Kawhi is really the last hope and that's a longggg shot.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 11:20:41 PM by PrezIke »
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6364 on: June 16, 2019, 12:07:58 AM »

2019-20 is Kevin Durant's age 31 season

For 2020-21 he will be 32 throughout.

Just thought I'd clear that up
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6365 on: June 16, 2019, 04:19:28 AM »

So Kawhi wins a title and never seemed like a NY kind of guy.
KD tears his achilles and comes to NY for surgery.
AD is traded to the Lakes.

Knix have lots of cap space and no one to spend it on.
Again, I'm fine rolling with yute:
Jr. Smith - Barrett - Knox - Vonleh - Mitch
Franc - Trier/Dot - Re-sign Deandre.   Can pay him a lot for a year or two.  Bring in another vet.
Maybe pick up a quality FA in the $10M - $15M range.  or not.
Try to snag some talent on the cheap.  Find a range sniper.
Can always overpay somebody on a 1 year deal (preferably an F who defends).

Win 20+ games and get another Top 7 pick next year.
Build a team through the draft, hoping one of your picks becomes a star.  While waiting for a good FA, and trying to have assets to trade for the next available star.    A steady flexible plan.

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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6366 on: June 16, 2019, 04:43:00 AM »

That was the deal the Lakes wanted to make.
Keep Kuz.

I'm not a fan of Ingram.  He seems sloppy and a bit lazy.  Focus comes and goes.  Also could get injured playing as a toothpick. 
Ball should be a nice fit alongside JRue and Zion.  If he stays healthy.  JRue and Ball will form a tough backcourt defense.
With the #4 pick, they should take a wing (SF).

Ball - JRue - #4 pick - Ingram - Zion
Elfrid? - ETwuan - Sol Hill/StanJohn? - Randle -

Interesting team.
Might or might not work.
If Zion is in the Barkley/Kemp mold, they have a lot of promise.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 10:52:02 AM by bodiddley »
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6367 on: June 16, 2019, 09:59:37 AM »

Pels will be very very good.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6368 on: June 16, 2019, 10:00:53 AM »

I wouldnt expect Randle to stay there.  He will get a huge offer, maybe from NY
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bankshot1

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6369 on: June 16, 2019, 10:37:34 AM »

Glad Ainge sat out the AD auction.
 I didn't like the 1-year rental risk.

Pels did pretty good.

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PrezIke

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6370 on: June 16, 2019, 11:24:22 AM »

So Kawhi wins a title and never seemed like a NY kind of guy.
KD tears his achilles and comes to NY for surgery.
AD is traded to the Lakes.

Knix have lots of cap space and no one to spend it on.
Again, I'm fine rolling with yute:
Jr. Smith - Barrett - Knox - Vonleh - Mitch
Franc - Trier/Dot - Re-sign Deandre.   Can pay him a lot for a year or two.  Bring in another vet.
Maybe pick up a quality FA in the $10M - $15M range.  or not.
Try to snag some talent on the cheap.  Find a range sniper.
Can always overpay somebody on a 1 year deal (preferably an F who defends).

Win 20+ games and get another Top 7 pick next year.
Build a team through the draft, hoping one of your picks becomes a star.  While waiting for a good FA, and trying to have assets to trade for the next available star.    A steady flexible plan.

At this point, I'm mostly with you.

I think we should use our cap space to take on a bad contract or maybe 2 for next season (2 seasons?) from other teams who want rid in order to gain more draft picks/assets (young-ish) players. As far as I also understand we need to take more contacts on anyway as you can't go into the season under a certain amount of salary.

I'd also be open to signing Russell for $20m a season (if Nets go for Kyrie instead) and then consider taking a short term bad-ish expiring 2021 contract vet from some team wanting be under the lux tax or whatever for assets since next summer is not helping get you a superstar, and then hope to flip whatever assets we need to in a trade for "the next superstar" in a year or so.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 11:26:18 AM by PrezIke »
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thebizneverloses

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6371 on: June 16, 2019, 11:46:21 AM »

CHA has $85M committed next season to Batum, Biyombo, Zeller, MKG and Marvin Williams.  Assuming MKG opts in for $13M -- which is more than his market value, imo.

$40M for Kemba has them hit $125M for 6 players.
Monk & Bridges add nearly $8M.  $133M / 8 players.

#12 pick is what, around $3M?
Another 5 more slots at $1.5M = $7.5M more ($143M)

Decision to make on Lamb & Frank Tank.
You sign Kemba and those two cost a lot with lux tax.
That's why Lamb would almost certainly be gone if Kemba stays.

Last year MIA had the highest payroll at $153M.  Warriors $146M.
CHA isn't paying $153M or more to keep the same team as last year (re-signing Kemba and Lamb).

They're in a tough payroll position.

A few comments:

Kemba won't quite be making $40m. Plan for 30, but with five years and higher raises than other teams can offer.

Lamb will be a hot commodity. I can't see him signing for less than $12m per. Someone is going to take a risk. Same with Rodney Hood. Shooters will come at a premium. I don't see how it makes sense for Charlotte, however, to keep him unless they send out MKG and Batum. Maybe you can rid yourself of MKG without giving up much, but a lightly protected 1st will be needed to ditch Batum. Even a proper lottery-protected 1st won't be enough.

Kaminsky is gone. Not sure where, but they're not going to be able to afford him.
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thebizneverloses

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6372 on: June 16, 2019, 11:51:13 AM »

So Kawhi wins a title and never seemed like a NY kind of guy.
KD tears his achilles and comes to NY for surgery.
AD is traded to the Lakes.

Knix have lots of cap space and no one to spend it on.
Again, I'm fine rolling with yute:
Jr. Smith - Barrett - Knox - Vonleh - Mitch
Franc - Trier/Dot - Re-sign Deandre.   Can pay him a lot for a year or two.  Bring in another vet.
Maybe pick up a quality FA in the $10M - $15M range.  or not.
Try to snag some talent on the cheap.  Find a range sniper.
Can always overpay somebody on a 1 year deal (preferably an F who defends).

Win 20+ games and get another Top 7 pick next year.
Build a team through the draft, hoping one of your picks becomes a star.  While waiting for a good FA, and trying to have assets to trade for the next available star.    A steady flexible plan.

It's funny how many things have gone wrong for the Knicks since the season ended:

- Fell from 1st to 3rd in the lottery (which wasn't actually that bad in a three person draft, given the odds). What was actually a problem was the Lakers jumping to 4th.
- KD is missed by the Warriors, perhaps healing some wounds
- Speaking of wounds, KD's tendon. It wasn't unreasonable to think he was coming to the NYK. Less likely now.
- Even Klay getting hurt is problematic. He might have been an option to sign with the Lakers, meaning one less competitor for all-star free agents.
- Kawhi is more likely to stay after the euphoria of a championship. One less all-star for all of NY's major competitors to fight over
- AD doesn't come to the Knicks. Moreover, Kemba now a strong candidate to go to LA. Coupled with Kyrie to Brooklyn, the Knicks are almost out of free agents who can appreciably change NY's outlook in the immediate term.

Anyhow, all that to say, I've been arguing as well for what Bo's saying here. I'm ok with prolonging the pain. Let's be the Hawks.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6373 on: June 16, 2019, 01:25:31 PM »

Kemba won't quite be making $40m. Plan for 30, but with five years and higher raises than other teams can offer.

If CHA only offers $30M, Kemba could get 4/$140M elsewhere.
Instead of a 5th year guarantee from CHA, KW could go to a winning team.  Play with LeBJ & AD.  Or the Clippers.  Magic?

CHA is on the treadmill of mediocrity.  They need to either come across with a lot of money, or Kemba could well fly.
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thebizneverloses

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #6374 on: June 16, 2019, 02:02:31 PM »

Kemba won't quite be making $40m. Plan for 30, but with five years and higher raises than other teams can offer.

If CHA only offers $30M, Kemba could get 4/$140M elsewhere.
Instead of a 5th year guarantee from CHA, KW could go to a winning team.  Play with LeBJ & AD.  Or the Clippers.  Magic?

CHA is on the treadmill of mediocrity.  They need to either come across with a lot of money, or Kemba could well fly.

I agree, and I actually think it's a bad basketball move (if a good PR move) to sign Kemba to anything close to the supermax.

But:

a) Other teams can offer him around $30m to start, while the Hornets can go up to $38m
b) The Hornets have higher annual raises and the fifth year to offer. For a smallish guard on his last big contract, that fifth year is worth an awful lot
c) He has already said he will consider taking less than the max.
d) Hornets are going to need some financial flexibility to make re-signing Kemba sensible. So they will be motivated to draw the line somewhere south of the $38m starting point.
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