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Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[facilitatorn]

http://thebulwark.com/the-trump-business-indictment-what-we-know-and-what-we-dont-yet-know/

[facilitatorn]

CRT does a lot to demystify events like this,

http://www.vice.com/en/article/z3xqea/no-knock-raid-don-clark-sr-shot-killed-st-louis-police

[LarryBnDC]

Re Critical Race Theory

I don't know enough about it, other than the broad theme, that I think understand, that racism shapes society in most ways, to attack it or defend it as a sound framework to educate our children. And I suspect that true for most people, the defenders and critics.

And as a aside, I'm pretty sure, most people know about "white supremacy", as defined as Nazi's or the KKK, and attack it, as its a problem they can sort of understand as they can put a silly mustache on it, or a hood, or burning crosses or mass graves. And most people probably attack white supremicists, even those who may dangle on the edge of that category.

Perhaps proponents of CRT could do a better job of explaining CRT, which I suspect is far more complex and nuanced than one of Josh's nifty graphics can capture, and in this case, probably distort.

And FTR, voicing this observation does not make me a racist.

CRT is discussed in LAW SCHOOL. as a concept. Institutional and systemic racism have tremendous influence on the law as it is written and how it’s applied.

It’s this years GOP bogeyman to scare uninformed white people into voting against their own self interest. Last year it was DEFUND THE POLICE and year before last it was CARAVANS FROM MEXICO .

[LarryBnDC]

Exxon-Mobil's CEO claims that their lobbyist misrepresented them and they, of course, would never behave in such a duplicitous fashion:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2021/07/01/keith-mccoy-exxonmobil-greenpeace-climate-mc-orig.cnn-business/video/playlists/around-the-world/

Notice all the “MODERATES” they have in their stable...

[LarryBnDC]

Re Critical Race Theory

Perhaps proponents of CRT could do a better job of explaining CRT, which I suspect is far more complex and nuanced than one of Josh's nifty graphics can capture, and in this case, probably distort.

Given your self-proclaimed ignorance, "probably distort" seems like a claim to knowledge that you shouldn't be making.

CRT has been explained here, Banks. And I think you are too generous about reactions to the notions of White Supremacy and its related labels, but I could be wrong.

Understand that this is a 40 year old theory, not something that just came up during the Trump years. It derived from careful scholarly study of our legal systems (yes, more than one) and social structures (ditto). And as with any social science/legal field, it has been continually poked and prodded by supporters and opponents over the year, leading to additions and changes. I bumped into a book, "The New Critical Race Theory," not long ago.

Short, direct definition of CRT, courtesy of the Britannica:

intellectual movement and loosely organized framework of legal analysis based on the premise that race is not a natural, biologically grounded feature of physically distinct subgroups of human beings but a socially constructed (culturally invented) category that is used to oppress and exploit people of colour. Critical race theorists hold that the law and legal institutions in the United States are inherently racist insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans.

The second sentence is an application of the first to American history, though there are many other ways and places in which it can be and has been applied.

Opposition to application of CRT can be found in objections to a key element of the 1619 project, Howard Zinn's work, and many other works --> the notion that America was racist from the start.

Once one denies that, ignores the simple legal truths built into that and the centuries of furtherance of such legal and societal structure, it becomes trivial to then maintain that there is no historical element that has any kind of ongoing role in the inequities that exist in society today. (Indeed, there are some here who deny there is any systemic racism in America at all.)

I hope this helps.

If you are interested in a deeper take on it, I suggest these resources:
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05

https://globalsocialtheory.org/topics/critical-race-theory/

Or, to go back before the current dust up, this book might not be a bad read for you:
https://archive.org/details/raceisraceisntcr0000unse

Thanls.

When I first heard the term, CRT, a few years ago, I googled and read enough to get a a sense of what it was to understand the framing of arguments. And I've read articles in the intervening years. So my ignorance is relative. I suspect I know more than most Americans, but far less than I need to know to come to a reasoned decision how I might see CRT fit into a child's education.

And "my probably distort" comment seemed appropriate with your editorial use of a 2-line graphic which probably distorted the comparison of white supremacy, which most people can understand, and CRT, which most do not.

Seriously do you think materially more than maybe 20-25% of Americans could give a reasonably accurate description of CRT?

And Josh your editorial cartoon was just an example of shaming and political sloganeering.

And I just called it out for what it was.

That you don't recognize it as such , well, is what it is.

So my ignorance is relative. I suspect I know more than most Americans, but far less than I need to know to come to a reasoned decision how I might see CRT fit into a child's education.

Aye, and there’s he run. Unless your child is a 2L CRT they most likely won’t be exposed to it because it isn’t a part of K-12 education but it’s being sold that way to scare white people that scary black folks are taking over.

Suckers.

[bankshot1]

Re Critical Race Theory

I don't know enough about it, other than the broad theme, that I think understand, that racism shapes society in most ways, to attack it or defend it as a sound framework to educate our children. And I suspect that true for most people, the defenders and critics.

And as a aside, I'm pretty sure, most people know about "white supremacy", as defined as Nazi's or the KKK, and attack it, as its a problem they can sort of understand as they can put a silly mustache on it, or a hood, or burning crosses or mass graves. And most people probably attack white supremicists, even those who may dangle on the edge of that category.

Perhaps proponents of CRT could do a better job of explaining CRT, which I suspect is far more complex and nuanced than one of Josh's nifty graphics can capture, and in this case, probably distort.

And FTR, voicing this observation does not make me a racist.

CRT is discussed in LAW SCHOOL. as a concept. Institutional and systemic racism have tremendous influence on the law as it is written and how it’s applied.

It’s this years GOP bogeyman to scare uninformed white people into voting against their own self interest. Last year it was DEFUND THE POLICE and year before last it was CARAVANS FROM MEXICO .

Larry you got BINGO

It's been weaponized.

Which is why its in proponent's best interest to do a better job explaining it, and how it will be good for kids, and making America a better place, as opposed to fodder for woke twitter posts and misleading propaganda.

[josh]

It is because of the weaponization and the K-12 aspect of it that I explicitly chose the EdWeek link.

And it is for the higher ed level that I chose the other.

[bankshot1]

Re Critical Race Theory

Perhaps proponents of CRT could do a better job of explaining CRT, which I suspect is far more complex and nuanced than one of Josh's nifty graphics can capture, and in this case, probably distort.

Given your self-proclaimed ignorance, "probably distort" seems like a claim to knowledge that you shouldn't be making.

CRT has been explained here, Banks. And I think you are too generous about reactions to the notions of White Supremacy and its related labels, but I could be wrong.

Understand that this is a 40 year old theory, not something that just came up during the Trump years. It derived from careful scholarly study of our legal systems (yes, more than one) and social structures (ditto). And as with any social science/legal field, it has been continually poked and prodded by supporters and opponents over the year, leading to additions and changes. I bumped into a book, "The New Critical Race Theory," not long ago.

Short, direct definition of CRT, courtesy of the Britannica:

intellectual movement and loosely organized framework of legal analysis based on the premise that race is not a natural, biologically grounded feature of physically distinct subgroups of human beings but a socially constructed (culturally invented) category that is used to oppress and exploit people of colour. Critical race theorists hold that the law and legal institutions in the United States are inherently racist insofar as they function to create and maintain social, economic, and political inequalities between whites and nonwhites, especially African Americans.

The second sentence is an application of the first to American history, though there are many other ways and places in which it can be and has been applied.

Opposition to application of CRT can be found in objections to a key element of the 1619 project, Howard Zinn's work, and many other works --> the notion that America was racist from the start.

Once one denies that, ignores the simple legal truths built into that and the centuries of furtherance of such legal and societal structure, it becomes trivial to then maintain that there is no historical element that has any kind of ongoing role in the inequities that exist in society today. (Indeed, there are some here who deny there is any systemic racism in America at all.)

I hope this helps.

If you are interested in a deeper take on it, I suggest these resources:
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05

https://globalsocialtheory.org/topics/critical-race-theory/

Or, to go back before the current dust up, this book might not be a bad read for you:
https://archive.org/details/raceisraceisntcr0000unse

Thanls.

When I first heard the term, CRT, a few years ago, I googled and read enough to get a a sense of what it was to understand the framing of arguments. And I've read articles in the intervening years. So my ignorance is relative. I suspect I know more than most Americans, but far less than I need to know to come to a reasoned decision how I might see CRT fit into a child's education.

And "my probably distort" comment seemed appropriate with your editorial use of a 2-line graphic which probably distorted the comparison of white supremacy, which most people can understand, and CRT, which most do not.

Seriously do you think materially more than maybe 20-25% of Americans could give a reasonably accurate description of CRT?

And Josh your editorial cartoon was just an example of shaming and political sloganeering.

And I just called it out for what it was.

That you don't recognize it as such , well, is what it is.

So my ignorance is relative. I suspect I know more than most Americans, but far less than I need to know to come to a reasoned decision how I might see CRT fit into a child's education.

Aye, and there’s he run. Unless your child is a 2L CRT they most likely won’t be exposed to it because it isn’t a part of K-12 education but it’s being sold that way to scare white people that scary black folks are taking over.

Suckers.

So your objections is, that I would like to be better educated on a subject, and more Americans be better educated on the subject, before subjecting children to a new theory in education, which will shape their development and future.

And Larry I believe the theory, or what I know of it, but I'm not a 40 year expert on the subject like our propaganda spouting moderator, and I believe it should be carefully introduced as part of our kid's education. But you'll have to bare with my comments and criticisms of the idiocy that I see weaponized controversial subjects attract.

[LarryBnDC]

Re Critical Race Theory

I don't know enough about it, other than the broad theme, that I think understand, that racism shapes society in most ways, to attack it or defend it as a sound framework to educate our children. And I suspect that true for most people, the defenders and critics.

And as a aside, I'm pretty sure, most people know about "white supremacy", as defined as Nazi's or the KKK, and attack it, as its a problem they can sort of understand as they can put a silly mustache on it, or a hood, or burning crosses or mass graves. And most people probably attack white supremicists, even those who may dangle on the edge of that category.

Perhaps proponents of CRT could do a better job of explaining CRT, which I suspect is far more complex and nuanced than one of Josh's nifty graphics can capture, and in this case, probably distort.

And FTR, voicing this observation does not make me a racist.

CRT is discussed in LAW SCHOOL. as a concept. Institutional and systemic racism have tremendous influence on the law as it is written and how it’s applied.

It’s this years GOP bogeyman to scare uninformed white people into voting against their own self interest. Last year it was DEFUND THE POLICE and year before last it was CARAVANS FROM MEXICO .

Larry you got BINGO

It's been weaponized.

Which is why its in proponent's best interest to do a better job explaining it, and how it will be good for kids, and making America a better place, as opposed to fodder for woke twitter posts and misleading propaganda.

When you’re explaining you’re losing.

Dems need to ATTACK GOP on naked white supremacy, sedition and blocking all legislation designed to lift the nation.

If it wasn’t for the fucking Democratic Moderates 2022 would be a blowout.

[LarryBnDC]

”So your objections is, that I would like to be better educated on a subject, and more Americans be better educated on the subject, before subjecting children to a new theory in education, which will shape their development and future.

And Larry I believe the theory, or what I know of it, but I'm not a 40 year expert on the subject like our propaganda spouting moderator, and I believe it should be carefully introduced as part of our kid's education. But you'll have to bare with my comments and criticisms of the idiocy that I see weaponized controversial subjects attract.”

It is not part of any K-12 curriculum.

That’s the white supremacist propaganda.

Why do you keep repeating after being told time and again it is taught in Law School?

[josh]

”So your objections is, that I would like to be better educated on a subject, and more Americans be better educated on the subject, before subjecting children to a new theory in education, which will shape their development and future.

And Larry I believe the theory, or what I know of it, but I'm not a 40 year expert on the subject like our propaganda spouting moderator, and I believe it should be carefully introduced as part of our kid's education. But you'll have to bare with my comments and criticisms of the idiocy that I see weaponized controversial subjects attract.”

It is not part of any K-12 curriculum.

That’s the white supremacist propaganda.

Why do you keep repeating after being told time and again it is taught in Law School?

That it is taught in Law School (and in social science programs) does not mean that it does not have a role in K-12 education, Larry, from textbook writing and acquisition to education laws to support systems like counseling.

They are just not nearly as disconnected as they were even a decade ago.

ETA: It is strongly influencing the discussions about school discipline and the school to prison pipeline, for example.

[bankshot1]

Re Critical Race Theory

I don't know enough about it, other than the broad theme, that I think understand, that racism shapes society in most ways, to attack it or defend it as a sound framework to educate our children. And I suspect that true for most people, the defenders and critics.

And as a aside, I'm pretty sure, most people know about "white supremacy", as defined as Nazi's or the KKK, and attack it, as its a problem they can sort of understand as they can put a silly mustache on it, or a hood, or burning crosses or mass graves. And most people probably attack white supremicists, even those who may dangle on the edge of that category.

Perhaps proponents of CRT could do a better job of explaining CRT, which I suspect is far more complex and nuanced than one of Josh's nifty graphics can capture, and in this case, probably distort.

And FTR, voicing this observation does not make me a racist.

CRT is discussed in LAW SCHOOL. as a concept. Institutional and systemic racism have tremendous influence on the law as it is written and how it’s applied.

It’s this years GOP bogeyman to scare uninformed white people into voting against their own self interest. Last year it was DEFUND THE POLICE and year before last it was CARAVANS FROM MEXICO .

Larry you got BINGO

It's been weaponized.

Which is why its in proponent's best interest to do a better job explaining it, and how it will be good for kids, and making America a better place, as opposed to fodder for woke twitter posts and misleading propaganda.

When you’re explaining you’re losing.

Dems need to ATTACK GOP on naked white supremacy, sedition and blocking all legislation designed to lift the nation.

If it wasn’t for the fucking Democratic Moderates 2022 would be a blowout.

Covid relief and the I-bill which most Americans seem to like, and a decent economy should help shield Dems from the mid-term gerrymandering and mid-term effect.

And I suspect the House "Independent" 1/6 Committee may be sufficiently devastating to H-R's, as a prelim report coming out, oh in October '22, might help, but we'll see.

I happen to think keeping mod Dems and indies engaged and not pissed off, and who dwarf progressive Dems, may be more important in winning elections.

YMMV 

[bankshot1]

”So your objections is, that I would like to be better educated on a subject, and more Americans be better educated on the subject, before subjecting children to a new theory in education, which will shape their development and future.

And Larry I believe the theory, or what I know of it, but I'm not a 40 year expert on the subject like our propaganda spouting moderator, and I believe it should be carefully introduced as part of our kid's education. But you'll have to bare with my comments and criticisms of the idiocy that I see weaponized controversial subjects attract.”

It is not part of any K-12 curriculum.

That’s the white supremacist propaganda.

Why do you keep repeating after being told time and again it is taught in Law School?

Larry I know its not taught K-12, that's the battleground, for kids from 5 and up.

I'm not repeating shit,

No one gives a flying fuck if law students pay $100k a year of their own money and take L-1 CRT @ Harvard Law or take it on-line @ Univ of Bumfuck School of Diplomacy, Law and Personal Hygiene.   

[LarryBnDC]

”So your objections is, that I would like to be better educated on a subject, and more Americans be better educated on the subject, before subjecting children to a new theory in education, which will shape their development and future.

And Larry I believe the theory, or what I know of it, but I'm not a 40 year expert on the subject like our propaganda spouting moderator, and I believe it should be carefully introduced as part of our kid's education. But you'll have to bare with my comments and criticisms of the idiocy that I see weaponized controversial subjects attract.”

It is not part of any K-12 curriculum.

That’s the white supremacist propaganda.

Why do you keep repeating after being told time and again it is taught in Law School?

That it is taught in Law School (and in social science programs) does not mean that it does not have a role in K-12 education, Larry, from textbook writing and acquisition to education laws to support systems like counseling.

They are just not nearly as disconnected as they were even a decade ago.

ETA: It is strongly influencing the discussions about school discipline and the school to prison pipeline, for example.

The propaganda is that it is being taught in elementary school to make white children hate themselves and on its face that is a lie.

”As Rufo eventually came to see it, conservatives engaged in the culture war had been fighting against the same progressive racial ideology since late in the Obama years, without ever being able to describe it effectively. “We’ve needed new language for these issues,” Rufo told me, when I first wrote to him, late in May. “ ‘Political correctness’ is a dated term and, more importantly, doesn’t apply anymore. It’s not that elites are enforcing a set of manners and cultural limits, they’re seeking to reengineer the foundation of human psychology and social institutions through the new politics of race, It’s much more invasive than mere ‘correctness,’ which is a mechanism of social control, but not the heart of what’s happening. The other frames are wrong, too: ‘cancel culture’ is a vacuous term and doesn’t translate into a political program; ‘woke’ is a good epithet, but it’s too broad, too terminal, too easily brushed aside. ‘Critical race theory’ is the perfect villain,” Rufo wrote”.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory

[facilitatorn]

Dems need to ATTACK GOP on naked white supremacy, sedition and blocking all legislation designed to lift the nation.

If it wasn’t for the fucking Democratic Moderates 2022 would be a blowout.

All three, white supremacy, sedition, and keeping the nation down at all costs, are one and the same. Getting that message through is crucial.