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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[josh]

"We lose people in the hands of police," Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., shot back. "It’s not a slogan but a policy demand. And centering the demand for equitable investments and budgets for communities across the country gets us progress and safety."



Dim bulb

This is a Ward-like statement. Criticism without explanation.

I would wonder which of the things she said he disagrees with, but (a) I don't think he got that far and (b) I don't actually care what somebody who does not care about the lives of Americans (or other residents of Earth) thinks about her observations.

[bankshot1]

As an aside it will be interesting to see to what degree Romney, Collins and Murk use "moderation" to their and their state's advantage.

I suspect they're listing their favorite projects as we speak.

[josh]

The 10 senators behind the bill, in addition to Romney and Warner, are  Joe Manchin, D-W.V.; Susan Collins, R-Maine; Bill Cassidy, R-La.; Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska; Maggie Hassan, D-N.H.; Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H., and Angus King, I-Maine.

Hopefully those 4-Repub senators will be just as amenable to bi-partisan appeal and cooperation when President Biden nominates his cabinet and closest advisors to get past an obstructionsist Repub-leadership in the Senate.

I wouldn't bet on Cassidy's being there, but he has nothing to prove for the time being, having just been reelected. So, maybe he will support Biden's nominees and other measures that need to happen.

Like I said, not betting on it.

[Yankguy1]

"We lose people in the hands of police," Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., shot back. "It’s not a slogan but a policy demand. And centering the demand for equitable investments and budgets for communities across the country gets us progress and safety."



Dim bulb

This is a Ward-like statement. Criticism without explanation.

I would wonder which of the things she said he disagrees with, but (a) I don't think he got that far and (b) I don't actually care what somebody who does not care about the lives of Americans (or other residents of Earth) thinks about her observations.

ANY commentary by Kid about the intellect of anybody should be responded to with no more than a chuckle and perhaps some vague reference to irony.

[bodiddley]

Oh, and one other item you seem to be pretty naive about.  When the stock market goes up it lifts all ships because when investors make more money they pay more taxes.

Sure, such as billionaire Donald Trump kicking in $150 over the past decade.

"There’s no reason why 91 Fortune 500 companies should be paying zero in taxes.”
- Joe Biden

Good to hear him say so, as companies rack up billion dollar profits and pay zero in taxes.  Should be a 15% minimum tax on profits.


And btw, tax cut always always always result in less tax revenue.
That's of course what they are intended to do.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Not so much that progressives are on a flawed path, as that the Right has gained traction in social media distorting that progressive path and concocting boogeymen (like "defunding" and "no one can own a car" and "open borders and special payments to undocumenteds"). 

Those are the talking points made popular by the “ squad” and progressives, not the Right

What we need are real conversations where people don't try to score points by falsely characterizing policy positions.  To those who have no mental immune system, the social media disinformation is highly infectious. 

And it feeds Culture War, when we need Culture Conversation.

Apparently you didn’t get the message sent at the polls.
“ socialism”, “ defund the police””, etc don’t cut it with moderate democrats who were recruited to run in 2018 to take back the House .  Now that majority has been cut back by voters who also turned thumbs down across the country on increased taxes, affirmative action, et al.
If you want a “ culture” conversation then it has to start with the dems.

[bodiddley]

My main takeaway from my time in this forum:
The Lefties here really need better, more coherent, more intelligent foils.

But constructing arguments and reasoned analysis isn't really a strength on the Right.

During the O Era, I'd occasionally run into someone making the vague claim that Obama was ruining the country.  So I might say: Wow that's terrible, how is he ruining the country?  And usually the response was something akin to: In so many ways.
So I'd gently persist and ask if Obama was ruining the country in many ways, they should be able to name one or two examples.  And then they'd bob and weave and offer zilch.  I'd get responses like: Well, if you don't see it than you must be crazy, etc.  Or, I'm not going to tell you if you don't know.

Two Righties offered up that Obama was trashing the Constitution by issuing executive orders.  I'd point out that all presidents issue exec orders, and ask specifically which ones Obama issued that were unconstitutional or ruinous to the country.  And then they had nothing, would get defensive and say they were done with the conversation.

It seemed like I was dealing with stupid people who heard a few political phrases, repeated them and then couldn't back up at all what they were saying when they were being challenged in the most basic way.  All I could guess was that they wanted to find other people who thought the same.  But the lack of thought and reasoning was kind of shocking.

[bodiddley]

But Geez, why am I arguing with Red's LOL and uninformed vagueness??

Because you are clueless.

There you have it, Bo.
Even Ward thinks that arguing with him is a waste of time and energy!

Unintentional self-mockery seems to be the extent of Red's sense of humor . . .

[REDSTATEWARD]

Oh, and one other item you seem to be pretty naive about.  When the stock market goes up it lifts all ships because when investors make more money they pay more taxes.

Sure, such as billionaire Donald Trump kicking in $150 over the past decade.

You have seen his tax returns?
[

"There’s no reason why 91 Fortune 500 companies should be paying zero in taxes.”
- Joe Biden


Good to hear him say so, as companies rack up billion dollar profits and pay zero in taxes.  Should be a 15% minimum tax on profits.

Then Joe should go for it.  Betcha he won’t because he would never get it passed.

And btw, tax cut always always always result in less tax revenue.
That's of course what they are intended to do.

No, tax cuts stimulate the economy as we just witnessed during the Trump Presidency.

[bankshot1]

Red is now an economist.

but a really dumb one.

tax cuts as a stimulative, diminish if an economy is running reasonably well.

As it was eventually during the 8-years under Obama.

Was obama perfect, no, but he had to deal with a severely broken banking  system that spread to other parts of the economy, and dealing with Repubs who wanted to defeat him, no matter what.

Are tax cuts stimulative, yes, but its short-term, and will have longer-term consequnces.

For example, we saw the deficit exploded with the '17 tax cut.

which eventually will be addressed by reduced gov't spending (likely R-pressure on social programs that the most vulnerable need) or higher taxes or both.

this economy did not need a tax cut in '17, it was a huge government gift to Trump supporters and a play for the '18 and '20 elections.

IMO Biden should not raise corporate taxes now.

Get America healthy and working again and build political capital for some targeted painful policies that will have to be addressed.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Well, it appears that “ Cultural” conversation Barton favors is off to a rocky start.
Progressive democrats quickly jumped to attack Barack Obama after he argued that political candidates alienate voters when they use "snappy" slogans such as "defund the police."

You lost a big audience the minute you say it, which makes it a lot less likely that you're actually going to get the changes you want done," Obama said. "The key is deciding, do you want to actually get something done, or do you want to feel good among the people you already agree with?"

Well, then the shit hit the “squad” fan.



We lose people in the hands of police," Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., shot back. "It’s not a slogan but a policy demand. And centering the demand for equitable investments and budgets for communities across the country gets us progress and safety."

"Rosa Parks was vilified & attacked for her civil disobedience. She was targeted. It's hard seeing the same people who uplift her courage, attack the movement for Black lives that want us to prioritize health, funding of schools & ending poverty, rather than racist police systems," Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., tweeted. 

Rep. Ayanna Pressley, D-Mass., said she's "out of patience" with criticism of the language that activists used.


Poor Obama.
Poor Joe Biden.
 

[josh]

Why is the Trump White House suddenly a very polite place to work? Everyone’s going around saying “pardon me.”

~Dan Rather

[Hairy Lime]

Red keeps forgetting that the Repubs lost the House in '18, the WH in '20 and might lose control of the Senate in January '21.

Red has always ignored elections he cannot spin his way. The 2018 Congressional elections stunning shift in the balance of power in the House doesn't enter into hos calculations because he would have to admit to the seismic repudiation of Republicans and their policies.

The Trump tax cuts in '17 (and they were mostly aimed at reducing corp taxes) helped the stock market through higher earnings and stock buybacks, but the real gains were largely weighted towards the wealthiest Americans. This is indisputable. The rich got richer. Which is the way the game is fixed, But this time they got way richer. 

There is no evidence that the tax cuts had any impact on jobs or the economy. The unemployment rate bottomed out before the tax cuts. Most of the tax cuts went to the investors and not production expansion for reasons that are pretty obvious: people only increase production of widgets if they can sell more widgets. As long as there is money in the market for.expansion - and there was plenty of money to finance expansion in 2017 - juicing the market with tax savings is simply going to dividends and buy backs, not.expansion.

And as I recall the job growth under Obama was superior to that of Trump (pre-covid).  As noted before, the $2 trillion tax cut blew a whole in any argument about balanced budgets but more importantly put programs that the most vulnerable depend on like social security and medicare at risk....

Yes, pre covid the job growth under Obama for the same period of time easily outstripped T**** job growth. And the expected return to "fiscal responsibility" after deliberately blowing a giant hole in the deficit was always part of the plan.

[Hairy Lime]

Personal advice to the group: Don't get even a mild case of COVID.

[bankshot1]

Personal advice to the group: Don't get even a mild case of COVID.

You ok