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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 2097790 times)

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30225 on: March 30, 2020, 12:21:55 AM »

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-03-covid-patients-coronavirus-symptoms.html?fbclid=IwAR2xwZi5eWZjdBul-BVo0Fk5LxkZEKjxy1H1xhiaXx5dogduevHxd8iLv4M

Some COVID-19 patients still have coronavirus after symptoms disappear: study

"In a new study, researchers found that half of the patients they treated for mild COVID-19 infection still had coronavirus for up to eight days after symptoms disappeared."
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30226 on: March 30, 2020, 01:06:49 AM »

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak?fbclid=IwAR0elMUbQz4QL4D0sjUpvpZ5Th5AJDkzRO0gxqRAO5yvmLdt081ogUsx_fA

They practiced social distance, but they came together to sing, even 6 feet apart.

"After 2½ hours, the singers parted ways at 9 p.m.

"Nearly three weeks later, 45 have been diagnosed with COVID-19 or ill with the symptoms, at least three have been hospitalized, and two are dead.

"The outbreak has stunned county health officials, who have concluded that the virus was almost certainly transmitted through the air from one or more people without symptoms."

45 out of 121.

We don't know how contagious it is in every strain, but we do know that it is more contagious than these people were ready for.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30227 on: March 30, 2020, 02:10:32 AM »

While we are likely to hit 160,000+ cases today (Monday), Sunday saw fewer new cases than either Friday or Saturday!

Too soon to think it's a trend, obviously, but it is the first dip we've seen in a good while, so I figured it was noteworthy.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30228 on: March 30, 2020, 02:54:57 AM »

all southbound traffic will be routed through the weigh station looking for vehicles from NY, NJ and Conn. Dept. Of Health officials will be asking them questions about their destination and giving them self quarantine info.

If you were desperate, you could just drive NYC to Atlanta and rent a car there for the drive to Florida.  But if they are just stopping people and telling them to self-quarantine.  Well, might as well keep driving.  My folks have an apartment in Florida, that an old aunt left them when she died.  Though I think hunkering down in NJ suburbs is better then going to Florida, where the outbreak is growing, and you'd need to go out and stock up.  Better weather though.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 08:04:50 AM by bodiddley »
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30229 on: March 30, 2020, 03:01:47 AM »

China has banned all foreigners from entering until further notice.  But most of the so-called import cases are Chinese, mainly students, returning form overseas after their universities cancelled classes.  Along with Chinese fleeing the virus in hotspots such as Europe and the US.  And they are being let in with testing and screening.   So CV cases are still arriving in China.
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Driver125

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30230 on: March 30, 2020, 03:05:29 AM »

Quote
G-7 Meeting Flops After Mike Pompeo Demands COVID-19 Be Called The ‘Wuhan Virus’
Good ol’ Porkey Pompeo—getting right to the heart of the matter—as usual.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30231 on: March 30, 2020, 03:34:57 AM »

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facilitatorn

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Republicans will deliver only poverty and world war

bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30233 on: March 30, 2020, 06:21:23 AM »

The U.S. Tried to Build a New Fleet of Ventilators. The Mission Failed

The gov't contracts with a private company to make cheap portable ventilators to prepare for an epidemic. Bigger medical company swoops in, buys that company and kills the project, to protect their large expensive ventilator business.   No ventilators built, gov't gets nada after years of effort.  Public is screwed.  Capitalism at its best.

It's really best to take the profit motive and skimming middlemen out of public health decisions.
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30234 on: March 30, 2020, 08:08:30 AM »

More capitalism as a culprit:

Quote
Though much attention was focused on how short of ventilators, masks, and beds the hospitals were there was almost no attention to how the city fell ino this crisis. It was as though only the virus was to blame.  In the last two decades NYC hospital beds have gone from 73,000 to 53,000.  A market mentality creeping into private and even many nonprofit hospitals has played a major role in this decline. The number of beds available per patient in the United States in many states has declined dramatically, mostly because hospital managers see empty beds as not money-making, so they want to reduce the number of empty beds as much as possible, so they staff fewer and fewer beds. Beds in short are subject to the same just in time principles that govern any other supply chain in the modern market economy. Applying just in time metrics to all key resources purportedly maximizes efficiency.
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Hairy Lime

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30235 on: March 30, 2020, 09:14:09 AM »

"I mean, looking at what we're seeing now, you know, I would say between 100 and 200,000 (deaths). But I don't want to be held to that," he said, adding that the US is going to have "millions of cases."


Well, like I said - at the current pace we would need to have 6 million cases to get to his numbers

Maybe we will.  Or maybe the death rate goes way up.  We shall see.

It's like you don't read.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/29/politics/trump-deaths-coronavirus/index.html

Trump admits the number may cross 100,000 dead.

We hope that it is only 1%, Kid, because at the current rate, if we hit 1,000,000 cases we're looking at 150-180,000 dead and if we hit the 6 million that you think we "need" to to get to the 100k figure, we're looking at 900,000 to 1,080,000 dead - using the more conservative worldwide numbers rather than the US numbers, which have a million turning into 350,000 dead.

If Trump is admitting we might cross 100,000 dead, we would be fools to think it isn't going north of 200,000 dead.

He has understated the danger every fucking stel of the way!!

You, sir - are a moron.
Why? Because he can do basic math?
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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30236 on: March 30, 2020, 10:29:55 AM »


It's really best to take the profit motive and skimming middlemen out of public health decisions.

The spouse and I were just talking about the disparity in US hospital beds per capita and other developed nations.  Sickening.   Literally.  Profit is the principal religion of America.   Some guy named Karl tried to warn us where that leads.   
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30237 on: March 30, 2020, 11:54:39 AM »

It turns out that GM isn't the bad guy that the president was painting them to be.

A snippet from the full history:
When asked in opening Q and A whether cost and profit were a factor, the President was very candid. He doesn’t like GM.

President: “It got to be a debate over cost. We don’t want to think too much about cost when we’re talking about this. This is not about cost. I WASN’T HAPPY WHERE GENERAL MOTORS BUILT PLANTS IN OTHER LOCATIONS (MEXICO) OVER THE YEARS. ….. AND SO I DIDN’T GO INTO IT WITH A VERY FAVORABLE VIEW. I WAS EXTREMELY UNHAPPY WITH LORDSTOWN OHIO. THEY LEFT LORDSTOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF AN AUTO BOOM (in fact, sales of sedans produced at Lordstown were crashing). BECAUSE WE HAD 17 CAR COMPANIES COMING IN (?) AND THEN THEY WERE LEAVING ONE PLANT IN OHIO. I LOVE OHIO "AND WHAT HAPPENS, THAT BECAME THE STORY.

"AND FRANKLY I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD PLACE TO BUILD THE VENTILATORS. AND WE’LL SEE, WE’LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

"SO I WASN’T TOO THRILLED."
-------

Now, the whole story:

Quote
On Friday, the President insinuated General Motors was acting un-patriotically, and was attempting to profiteer from the shortage of life-sustaining ventilators. He invoked the Defense Production Act, ordering them to produce the ventilators. But GM was already far ahead of any other company in moving forward and had in fact made the commitment to produce the ventilators “at cost” with Ventec, a leading ventilator provider.

Here are the facts:

Wednesday 3/18: GM Chairperson Mary Barra reaches out to White House Chief Economic Advisor Larry Kudlow and offers GM’s manufacturing and engineering capacity to fulfill the need for medical supplies. (Source: Axios, GM and White House)

Friday 3/20 GM and Ventec, a ventilator manufacturer from the Seattle area, announce they are undertaking a feasibility project to determine whether they can jointly initiate rapidly expanded production. (GM and Ventec joint release)

By Monday 3/23 GM and Ventec not only prove feasibility, but designate GM’s former electronics facility in Kokomo, Ind. as the “clean” facility for production. The UAW is asked to begin recruiting volunteers. It’s a labor intensive project and may need as many as 1,000 workers. GM’s purchasing chief informs Barra he has commitments from nearly all the suppliers needed for 700 components. He is confident the remaining 37 components can be sourced. (GM, Axios and Reuters)

Tuesday 3/24 Axios and Reuters report GM’s incredible progress. Ventec is told to anticipate an announcement from the White House about the impending contract. Ventec is ready to go but has still not received direction from the feds on how many ventilators it is ordering, making cost quotes per unit more difficult to estimate.

Wednesday 3/25 Without explanation the White House cancels the announcement and Ventec is told there will be no contract. Late that evening Ventec and GM agree to move forward anyway. GM agrees to help clear Ventec’s 20,000 unit back-order at cost. Essentially they agree to build a decade’s worth of ventilators in less than 2 months.

Thursday 3/26. NYT reports White House balks because they are trying to decide between different vendors who they believe can offer lower cost options. Ventec and GM prepare to announce their formal production agreement on Friday.

Friday 3/27 President threatens in 2 tweets to invoke “P” (Defense Production Act) against GM. Suggests they should build ventilators at Lordstown, a plant the White House knows GM no longer owns. They are also aware a much more practical electronics plant was chosen for production. He also insults Mary Barra who made the initial offer with prompting from no one.
Within 90 minutes, Ventec and GM announce their plans for production. They have hired 1,000 workers, a full shift, and have the sourcing to make 200,000 ventilators. They have printed training manuals and intend to start training in the new work week. All of these plans and progress occur well before any implied or actual threat from President Trump.

Friday Evening: The President announces he is invoking the Defense Production Act. It will not get things built any faster, but does eliminate the red tape normally associated with government contracting.

His new procurement czar Peter Navarro suggests many “patriotic” companies had come forward, but they hit a roadblock with GM. The President says, “we won’t pay double or triple for ventilators.” Yet GM and Ventec were producing them at cost. Throughout the briefing it’s implied they had difficult discussions with GM. In fact, Ventec is the primary contractor and handled all interaction beyond Barra’s original offer. When asked in opening Q and A whether cost and profit were a factor, the President was very candid. He doesn’t like GM.

President: “It got to be a debate over cost. We don’t want to think too much about cost when we’re talking about this. This is not about cost. I WASN’T HAPPY WHERE GENERAL MOTORS BUILT PLANTS IN OTHER LOCATIONS (MEXICO) OVER THE YEARS. ….. AND SO I DIDN’T GO INTO IT WITH A VERY FAVORABLE VIEW. I WAS EXTREMELY UNHAPPY WITH LORDSTOWN OHIO. THEY LEFT LORDSTOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF AN AUTO BOOM (in fact, sales of sedans produced at Lordstown were crashing). BECAUSE WE HAD 17 CAR COMPANIES COMING IN (?) AND THEN THEY WERE LEAVING ONE PLANT IN OHIO. I LOVE OHIO AND WHAT HAPPENS, THAT BECAME THE STORY.

AND FRANKLY I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD PLACE TO BUILD THE VENTILATORS. AND WE’LL SEE, WE’LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

SO I WASN’T TOO THRILLED.

“And then we thought we had a deal for 40,000 ventilators and then it became 6 and price became a big object. But Peter is getting involved… maybe they’ll change their tune.”

Sadly, the tune has always been the same. GM offered to help and in less than 10 days moved heaven and earth to find a location, hire a workforce, source a 700-part piece of technology, spec it out for suppliers and set employee training in motion. All of this to be delivered at cost, a cost that could have been pinned down better had the Government instructed how many they needed.

Maximum production for Ventec is 200 ventilators per month. GM was offering to build 100 times that many in a matter of a few months… needing less than a month for re-tooling and training. That is nothing short of incredible. Their thanks was a politically motivated shaming in a nationally televised White House briefing. GM was patriotic. GM was All-American. They will not profit. In fact, they may lose business because of the President’s diatribe. I wonder how many other companies are re-thinking their willingness to step up as a result.

But on Monday, GM will start making masks in Warren and begin training in Kokomo.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

REDSTATEWARD

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30238 on: March 30, 2020, 12:09:56 PM »


It's really best to take the profit motive and skimming middlemen out of public health decisions.

The spouse and I were just talking about the disparity in US hospital beds per capita and other developed nations.  Sickening.   Literally.  Profit is the principal religion of America.   Some guy named Karl tried to warn us where that leads.
LOL!
Cherry picking one statistic to prove what?  That Karl Marx was misunderstood? Does your wife know you linked her to such foolishness?
The USA leads the world in critical care hospital beds per capita. That is due in part to the focus on out-patient procedures. In many cases such procedures as hip replacements, and a multitude of others which used to require a hospital stay no longer do in America. That’ leads to faster treatment and a huge reduction in waiting time. Not to mention that exposure to other illnesses is increased in many hospital stays. And, of course, the number of overnight hospital beds

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/03/12/the-countries-with-the-most-critical-care-beds-per-capita-infographic/amp/
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 02:29:51 PM by REDSTATEWARD »
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #30239 on: March 30, 2020, 12:49:04 PM »

We do have a substantial lead in critical care and ICU neds per capita. It's something like 50% ahead of the nearest other countries.

But among the factors involved are these:
Quote
First are distinct differences in patient populations. Data comparing middle-aged Americans with a similar population in the United Kingdom demonstrated a higher burden of chronic illnesses among the American cohort –double the rate of diabetes and a third higher rate of hypertension. Such comparisons are essential to understanding the relative healthcare needs of populations. Frequency of interventions and surgical procedures may also impact the need for intensive care. For example, patients who receive a liver transplant will require a stay in an ICU. This need for intensive care is, therefore, driven not solely by disease, but also by management choices. An older study comparing admissions to intensive care in Alberta (Canada) and western Massachusetts (US) found that ICU days per million population were two to three times higher in western Massachusetts, primarily due to a higher ICU incidence (i.e. percent of hospitalized patients treated in the ICU). This discrepancy was driven by all of the factors described above.

And in addition to having 50% more beds than Canada, they cost 85% more per bed.

(figures used are 2012. It is likely worse since then.)
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham
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