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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 1584824 times)

Hamilton Samuels

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42390 on: July 12, 2020, 02:13:04 PM »

Quote from: Uno
   I asked a question and used your answer and Larry's to extend the conversation. Don't blame me for asking, and by doing so exposing some inconsistent thinking on your part.. 
 

Not sure if you saw Kam's post on "concern trolling."  This seems close to that.   I feel your didactic approach is not entirely candid here.

Are you suggesting that there is inconsistent thinking on his part?!

GASP!

Quick kill the messenger. You are using Trump's strategy as your own. No one can question you.

Pretty petty, Josh.
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The artist's job is not to succumb to despair but to find an antidote for the emptiness of existence.

Hamilton Samuels

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42391 on: July 12, 2020, 02:13:44 PM »

But again Trump is ripping up his health advisors guidelines as too expensive and difficult.  Well, what will be too expensive is cheaping out and proceeding laxly and having huge new outbreaks, starting with kids and plowing through their families and teachers.  Reopening state economies without following proper guidelines didn't work out so well.  The death march continues.


No data that says children spread this disease

Adults work in the schools.
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The artist's job is not to succumb to despair but to find an antidote for the emptiness of existence.

Echo4

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42392 on: July 12, 2020, 02:15:43 PM »

Quote from: Uno
   I asked a question and used your answer and Larry's to extend the conversation. Don't blame me for asking, and by doing so exposing some inconsistent thinking on your part.. 
 

Not sure if you saw Kam's post on "concern trolling."  This seems close to that.   I feel your didactic approach is not entirely candid here.

Are you suggesting that there is inconsistent thinking on his part?!

GASP!

Quick kill the messenger. You are using Trump's strategy as your own. No one can question you.

Pretty petty, Josh.

No, but you can make that accusation as much as it pleases you to. You do create a fine set of straw men. Always could.
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Echo4

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42393 on: July 12, 2020, 02:16:46 PM »

Quote from: Uno
   I asked a question and used your answer and Larry's to extend the conversation. Don't blame me for asking, and by doing so exposing some inconsistent thinking on your part.. 
 

Not sure if you saw Kam's post on "concern trolling."  This seems close to that.   I feel your didactic approach is not entirely candid here.

Well, I can't help what you feel.

I can only go back to the essential elements of my questioning using public space for political messaging, regardless of the worthiness of that message.

And what you were told, which is that the bounds of legality are the question, not our personal opinions of the messages.
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Echo4

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42394 on: July 12, 2020, 02:42:07 PM »

But again Trump is ripping up his health advisors guidelines as too expensive and difficult.  Well, what will be too expensive is cheaping out and proceeding laxly and having huge new outbreaks, starting with kids and plowing through their families and teachers.  Reopening state economies without following proper guidelines didn't work out so well.  The death march continues.


No data that says children spread this disease

You are mistaken.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710100934.htm

Quote
In the new Pediatrics study, Klara M. Posfay-Barbe, M.D., a faculty member at University of Geneva's medical school, and her colleagues studied the households of 39 Swiss children infected with Covid-19. Contact tracing revealed that in only three (8%) was a child the suspected index case, with symptom onset preceding illness in adult household contacts.
...
In a recent study in China, contact tracing demonstrated that, of the 68 children with Covid-19 admitted to Qingdao Women's and Children's Hospital from January 20 to February 27, 2020, 96% were household contacts of previously infected adults.

"Much smaller" is not the same as "no data that says children spread this disease."

The HEROS Study is looking at tens of thousands of families and will offer a more definitive statement.

But the observation has been made that even though children seem far less likely to get or transmit the virus, they also have triple the contacts that adults do, maybe more in schools. This is why the pediatrics group backed off the suggestion that schools should reopen.

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Echo4

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42395 on: July 12, 2020, 02:42:50 PM »

But again Trump is ripping up his health advisors guidelines as too expensive and difficult. 



no idea what this is supposed to mean - other than sounding like anti-administration propaganda.

Prefer this version?

" Trump is ripping his health advisors guidelines as too expensive and difficult."
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42396 on: July 12, 2020, 02:51:18 PM »

Saying that without a direct quote is weak sauce.
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Hamilton Samuels

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42397 on: July 12, 2020, 03:01:15 PM »

Quote from: Uno
   I asked a question and used your answer and Larry's to extend the conversation. Don't blame me for asking, and by doing so exposing some inconsistent thinking on your part.. 
 

Not sure if you saw Kam's post on "concern trolling."  This seems close to that.   I feel your didactic approach is not entirely candid here.

Are you suggesting that there is inconsistent thinking on his part?!

GASP!

Quick kill the messenger. You are using Trump's strategy as your own. No one can question you.

Pretty petty, Josh.

No, but you can make that accusation as much as it pleases you to. You do create a fine set of straw men. Always could.

I think, sadly, in your case, what we've shown here today is what was at the heart of the Harper's letter:  "While we have come to expect this on the radical right, censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture: an intolerance of opposing views, a vogue for public shaming and ostracism, and the tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty."

You have yet to address the issues I've raised. How is the BLM state approved political message different than the state approved Ten Commandments statue  or something similar?

No, you'd rather try to declare some fault in the person asking you questions.

No difference between your strategy and Trump's.

So to you I'm "fake news" because I ask you to consider your POV is flawed.

Sad.
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Yankguy1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42398 on: July 12, 2020, 03:08:29 PM »

Governmental posting of the 10 Commandments is frowned upon not as being a political statement, but rather as a violation of the Establishment cause. Try that.
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bambu.

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42399 on: July 12, 2020, 03:09:38 PM »

"kids  for sure spread Covid-19 " says NYC doctor,  paediatrician Dr Dianne Hess.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42400 on: July 12, 2020, 03:12:53 PM »

Governmental posting of the 10 Commandments is frowned upon not as being a political statement, but rather as a violation of the Establishment cause. Try that.

Then chase it with a side of any and every use of public space is a political statement.
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bankshot1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42401 on: July 12, 2020, 03:17:20 PM »

Its unfortunate that common sense and the greater good oftern turns into s partisan battleground.

I think its a largely uncontested belief we all want the US (and the world) to get safely past covid-19 ASAP. And maybe with science and some luck it'll take 6-12 months.

And even then to get there will entail more sacrifices by lots of people.

Masks, social distancing, less interacting in society, the workplace etc.

some of us have done it more or less for 5 months. 

But some idiots didn't want to wear masks, or practice social distancing, because it was inconvenient to their lifestyle.

Live mask-free or die?

FUCK THEM-DIE.

But lots of people have already made lots of sacrifices for the common good. There were too many heroes, but its a damn shame a few idiots have sabotaged those months of sacrifice by thousands of heroic doctors, nurses, teachers, cops, sanitation workers, public employees who saved lives and kept shit running, while a lot of us were hiding in our homes.

And we all want kids back in school and for lots of reasons, but first and foremost it should be safe for them and for their benefit. Not for Trump's or Biden's or your IRA.

I think we have to be long-term smart and avoid what may be a short-term quick fix which soon may expose its flaws and reignite the inferno.

If you want kids safely in schools in Sept, shut the motherfucking disease down now.

And maybe you have a shot at it.

You get kids back in crowded classrooms, we know whats going to happen. The kid will get a runny nose, maybe run a fever, etc., but parents will catch it full-blown and some may get hospitalized.

But some would rather re-open the economy and schools way before they were ready to and way before the risks said it was time to.

And the results were predictable-the motherfucker exploded in Fla, Texas and Az. and we're seeing records levels of infections and hospitalizations.

I'd rather be cautious in the short-term, pay the price of a slower economy, slow the disease until vaccines or effective treatments found, and the hopefully take measured risks to try and get back to normal on a sustainable long-term basis. 

wear masks, social distance, and don't be fucking stupid.

Rant over

be well.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 03:19:39 PM by bankshot1 »
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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42402 on: July 12, 2020, 03:40:38 PM »


Sorry. Couldn't read the piece. Paywall. Could you quote it here?


:A small, mostly white Virginia town put up a ‘Black Lives Matter’ banner. Ginni Thomas denounced it.
Patricia Sullivan
A banner in support of Black Lives Matter has been erected along Main Street in tiny Clifton, Va.
A banner in support of Black Lives Matter has been erected along Main Street in tiny Clifton, Va. (Salwan Georges/The Washington Post)
It was posted over the tiny Northern Virginia town’s Main Street, in a space mostly used to advertise community events, after residents proposed staging a protest like the ones that have swept the country since the death of George Floyd in the custody of Minneapolis police.

The gesture — which Mayor William R. Hollaway called “a first step” to beginning discussions of racial equity — drew mostly positive responses, according to the town clerk. But it prompted outrage from some residents of Fairfax County and nearby towns. Hollaway called the banner “the biggest controversy we’ve seen in many years.”

One critical email, which was shared with The Washington Post, was sent from the email account of Ginni Thomas, an outspoken conservative whose consulting company is based in Burke and who is married to Clarence Thomas, the only black justice on the U.S. Supreme Court.

Ginni Thomas, a conservative activist and consultant who is married to Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.
Ginni Thomas, a conservative activist and consultant who is married to Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. (Susan Walsh/AP)
“BLM is a bit of a dangerous Trojan Horse and they are catching well-meaning people into dangerous posturing that can invite mob rule and property looting,” Ginni Thomas, who is white, wrote on June 24. “Let’s not be tricked into joining cause with radical extremists seeking to foment a cultural revolution because they hate America.”

The email echoes remarks by President Trump and conservative commentators, who have denounced protesters for racial justice as radical, violent and un-American.

Ginni Thomas did not respond to a request for comment Thursday. Her Facebook page is full of similar sentiments, quoting the same sources as in the email.


An email to the Town Council from Lin-Dai Kendall, a tea party Republican who once ran for Fairfax County School Board, said the sign appears to welcome “rioters who have vandalized entire zones in multiple American cities across the United States for the past three weeks.”

“You are affirming a misnomer that threatens to send us all into a cultural revolution pitting Marxists against freedom-loving Americans,” Kendall’s email said.

Critics also posted comments on Clifton’s Facebook page and anonymously mailed fliers to residents that try to tie the Black Lives Matter movement to international conspiracies.

In response to the uproar, the council set aside half of its regular meeting Tuesday night to hear feedback about the banner.

Nearly all of the 16 people who spoke at the meeting said they supported it. Several described their relief and thankfulness that the overwhelmingly white town of about 300 residents had taken an anti-racist stance.

“As an African American, I never would have guessed that this community would come together . . . to make such a clear message of welcome and openness,” said Mark Cherry.

Another speaker, Tony DiBari, posed a challenge to the assembled council members. “You guys already made the right decision; you put up the banner,” he said. “Now do you have the willingness, the wherewithal, the fight to stand behind the people of this community?”

Hollaway — who works as a lawyer in downtown Washington in addition to serving as mayor — said the council called an emergency session June 11 to discuss possible responses to the national reckoning on race that has been amplified by Floyd’s death.

How the Black Lives Matter movement went mainstream

He was acutely aware of the sizable protests sweeping downtown Washington. While generally peaceful, the protests early on included some property damage and looting, and Hollaway’s legal office “had all of its windows smashed out of it,” he said.

“We couldn’t go to work there. It was a volatile time,” the mayor said. He believed the Town Council needed to make a statement right away.

While some residents wanted to organize a demonstration in solidarity with those seeking racial justice, council members suggested the banner as an alternative, noting that Black Lives Matter is a movement that goes far beyond the advocacy organization with that name. The council said June 11 that it did not support the group’s goals of defunding police, decriminalizing prostitution and other “radical” aims.

“We took action because we believed it was urgent, and we had a crisis before us,” Hollaway said.

After the banner was stretched across Main Street, someone complained to the Virginia Department of Transportation. Town Council members said the state agency has never expressed concern about banners erected in that space for the past three or four decades, advertising pancake breakfasts and the like.

The council decided Tuesday night that it would not remove the welcome sign until another organization requests the space to advertise a civic event, most of which have been canceled because of the coronavirus pandemic.

“We knew we had a 60-day maximum,” said Steve Effros, Clifton’s vice mayor. “What happens after that is, we may finally have a pancake breakfast.”

Correction: A previous version of this story misspelled the name of Clifton's mayor. It is William R. Hollaway.



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If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42403 on: July 12, 2020, 03:42:14 PM »

Uno, I really fail to see why this matter of street painting is hard to understand.  Municipalities often promote worthy causes that most citizens are behind - a BLM banner or stencil or whatever,  which shows support to a civil rights cause (just as naming a street Rosa Parks Drive or MLK Blvd would and does in many places) that a majority of Americans see as worthwhile and consistent with our founding principles. 

A confederate flag OTOH is not.

The Battle of Memphis as pivotal as DDay.
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If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #42404 on: July 12, 2020, 03:43:58 PM »

But again Trump is ripping up his health advisors guidelines as too expensive and difficult. 



no idea what this is supposed to mean - other than sounding like anti-administration propaganda.

Anti the continuous cluster fuck that is the Administration.
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If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

Lyndon Johnson
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