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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 2083319 times)

Driver125

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1200 on: August 22, 2018, 03:28:31 PM »

Quote
My doubt is driven by what seems to me the obvious weasel ways for Trump to deny that his hush money was really a campaign contribution.
Maybe he will allow his ace TV attorney, Rudy 'G' to come up with the explanation, since Rudy’s explanations always make sooooo much sense. Logic personified.
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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1201 on: August 22, 2018, 03:44:51 PM »

Donald Trump's mother gestates turkeys.

Explains the gobbledegook. 
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1202 on: August 22, 2018, 04:12:48 PM »

"You don't even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic, if this body determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role...because impeachment is not about punishment.  Impeachment is about cleansing the office.  Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office. "

- Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)

And wow, really well said.  I guess there are some Republicans with some honor and moral values around after all.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1203 on: August 22, 2018, 04:36:46 PM »


I do not doubt a sitting president can be indicted for crimes. I doubt as a practical matter they would indict, or if indicted prosecute, a sitt9ng president for the offense Cohen accused him of.

My doubt is driven by what seems to me the obvious weasel ways for Trump to deny that his hush money was really a campaign contribution.  My guess is that, if he is ever answerable for this stuff, he will say that he was simply paying off dalliances to protect his marriage and his (snicker) reputation from lying schemers.  That the hush money was paid during a campaign was just a coincidence.  To me, Cohen's allegation is only of value when it would comprise part of a much longer list of malfeasance, when it can add a little more heft to multiple indictments.

Long since too late to say that, given that Trump already declared they were about the campaign.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1204 on: August 22, 2018, 04:40:04 PM »



Storm clouds gathering over the White House.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1205 on: August 22, 2018, 04:40:36 PM »

"You don't even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic, if this body determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role...because impeachment is not about punishment.  Impeachment is about cleansing the office.  Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office. "

- Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)

And wow, really well said.  I guess there are some Republicans with some honor and moral values around after all.

Don't get carried away.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1206 on: August 22, 2018, 04:57:18 PM »

"You don't even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic, if this body determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role...because impeachment is not about punishment.  Impeachment is about cleansing the office.  Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office. "

- Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)

And wow, really well said.  I guess there are some Republicans with some honor and moral values around after all.

Don't get carried away.

No, really.  I am impressed that there is a Republican in the Senate who would set a standard for impeachment that puts the integrity of our highest office and the government itself above politics and party. 

Bravo, Senator Graham.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

whiskeypriest

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1207 on: August 22, 2018, 05:00:57 PM »

"You don't even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic, if this body determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role...because impeachment is not about punishment.  Impeachment is about cleansing the office.  Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office. "

- Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)

And wow, really well said.  I guess there are some Republicans with some honor and moral values around after all.

Don't get carried away.

No, really.  I am impressed that there is a Republican in the Senate who would set a standard for impeachment that puts the integrity of our highest office and the government itself above politics and party. 

Bravo, Senator Graham.
And he said that in 1999. Wonder how he feels now.
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I like to think you killed a man. It's the Romantic in me.

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1208 on: August 22, 2018, 05:18:36 PM »

"You don't even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic, if this body determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role...because impeachment is not about punishment.  Impeachment is about cleansing the office.  Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office. "

- Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)

And wow, really well said.  I guess there are some Republicans with some honor and moral values around after all.

Don't get carried away.

No, really.  I am impressed that there is a Republican in the Senate who would set a standard for impeachment that puts the integrity of our highest office and the government itself above politics and party. 

Bravo, Senator Graham.
And he said that in 1999. Wonder how he feels now.

Well, yes, he said that about Bill Clinton, a Democrat, but there isn't any reason to think he would feel differently if the President is Republican, right?
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1209 on: August 22, 2018, 05:21:11 PM »

And similarly, no reason to think any Republican would change their mind that misuse of a charitable foundation is disqualifying for the position of President of the United States.  Right?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/22/politics/michael-cohen-trump-foundation-subpoena/index.html
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1210 on: August 22, 2018, 05:30:51 PM »

"You don't even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic, if this body determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role...because impeachment is not about punishment.  Impeachment is about cleansing the office.  Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office. "

- Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)

And wow, really well said.  I guess there are some Republicans with some honor and moral values around after all.

Don't get carried away.

No, really.  I am impressed that there is a Republican in the Senate who would set a standard for impeachment that puts the integrity of our highest office and the government itself above politics and party. 

Bravo, Senator Graham.

I don't see how you came to the conclusion that he did that.

If I thought he had, I would agree with you. But evidence in the way of votes suggest that that was grandstanding as surely as he has engaged in since then.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1211 on: August 22, 2018, 05:45:57 PM »

"You don't even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic, if this body determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role...because impeachment is not about punishment.  Impeachment is about cleansing the office.  Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office. "

- Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC)

And wow, really well said.  I guess there are some Republicans with some honor and moral values around after all.

Don't get carried away.

No, really.  I am impressed that there is a Republican in the Senate who would set a standard for impeachment that puts the integrity of our highest office and the government itself above politics and party. 

Bravo, Senator Graham.

I don't see how you came to the conclusion that he did that.

If I thought he had, I would agree with you. But evidence in the way of votes suggest that that was grandstanding as surely as he has engaged in since then.

I was being sarcastic, of course, in implying that Graham would use the same standard today.

Graham's tweet, which points out that no Cohen or Manafort developments have revealed charges or convictions for colluding with the Russian Government would seem to indicate that he has for some reason changed his mind since 1999.

As in, then, he thought a crime wasn't required for impeachment of the President.  Now, he thinks any development is irrelevant to the President unless it proves the worst crime we can imagine his committing.

That is quite a change, and I can't help but wonder if it has something to do with the party affiliation of the President in question.

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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1212 on: August 22, 2018, 05:56:08 PM »

I posted the storm clouds, earlier, before reading the article as I thought the image and caption amusing.

However, the Lawfare article that accompanied the picture is good (for those prepared to admit this might have an impact on the president and the presidency).
https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-michael-cohens-plea-and-paul-manaforts-conviction-mean-trump-and-mueller-investigation

The Lawfare blog, in general, addresses "that nebulous zone in which actions taken or contemplated to protect the nation interact with the nation’s laws and legal institutions. We will, I am sure, construe this subject broadly to include subjects as far-flung as cybersecurity, Guantánamo habeas litigation, targeted killing, biosecurity, universal jurisdiction, the Alien Tort Statute, the state secrets privilege and countless other related and not-so-related matters. . . ."
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1213 on: August 22, 2018, 06:32:11 PM »

Quote
A fairly accurate diagnostic test for liberalism

Agree or disagree with each sentence—by and large, without worrying over fine points.

1. All forms of racial segregation and discrimination are wrong.
2. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion.
3. Everyone has a right to free, public education.
4. Political, economic or social discrimination based on religious belief is wrong.
5. In political or military conflict it is wrong to use methods of torture and physical terror.
6. A popular movement or revolt against a tyranny or dictatorship is right, and deserves approval.
7. The government has a duty to provide for the ill, aged, unemployed and poor if they cannot take care of themselves.
8. Progressive income and inheritance taxes are the fairest form of taxation.
9. If reasonable compensation is made, the government of a nation has the legal and moral right to expropriate private property within its borders, whether owned by citizens or foreigners.
10. We have a duty to mankind; that is, to men in general.
11. The United Nations, even if limited in accomplishment, is a step in the right direction.
12. Any interference with free speech and free assembly, except for cases of immediate public danger or juvenile corruption, is wrong.
13. Wealthy nations, like the United States, have a duty to aid the less privileged portions of mankind.
14. Colonialism and imperialism are wrong.
15. Hotels, motels, stores and restaurants in the Southern United States ought to be obliged by law to allow Negroes to use all of their facilities on the same basis as whites.
16. The chief sources of delinquency and crime are ignorance, discrimination, poverty and exploitation.
17. Communists have a right to express their opinions.
18. We should always be ready to negotiate with the Communist nations.
19. Corporal punishment, except possibly for small children, is wrong.
20. All nations and peoples, including the nations and peoples of Asia and Africa, have a right to political independence when a majority of the population wants it.
21. We always ought to respect the religious beliefs of others.
22. The primary goal of international policy in the nuclear age ought to be peace.
23. Except in cases of a clear threat to national security or, possibly, to juvenile morals, censorship is wrong.
24. Congressional investigating committees are dangerous institutions, and need to be watched and curbed if they are not to become a serious threat to freedom.
25. The money amount of school and university scholarships ought to be decided primarily by need.
26. Qualified teachers, at least at the university level, are entitled to academic freedom: that is, the right to express their own beliefs and opinions, in or out of the classroom, without interference from administrators, trustees, parents or public bodies.
27. In determining who is to be admitted to schools and universities, quota systems based on color, religion, family or similar factors are wrong.
28. The national government should guarantee that all adult citizens, except for criminals and the insane, should have the right to vote.
29. Joseph McCarthy was probably the most dangerous man in American public life during the fifteen years following the Second World War.
30. There are no significant differences in intellectual, moral or civilizing capacity among human races and ethnic types.
31. Steps toward world disarmament would be a good thing.
32. Everyone is entitled to political and social rights without distinction of any kind, such as race, color, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.
33. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and expression.
34. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression.
35. The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government.
36. Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security.
37. Everyone has the right to equal pay for equal work.
38. Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions.
39. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.


A FULL-BLOWN LIBERAL WILL mark every one, or very nearly every one, of these thirty-nine sentences, Agree. A convinced conservative will mark many or most of them, a reactionary all or nearly all of them, Disagree. By giving this test to a variety of groups, I have confirmed experimentally—what is obvious enough from ordinary discourse—that the result is seldom an even balance between Agree and Disagree. The correlations are especially stable for individuals who are prepared to identify themselves unequivocally as either “liberal” or “reactionary”: such self-defined liberals almost never drop below 85 percent of Agree answers, or self-defined reactionaries below 85 percent of Disagree; a perfect 100 percent is common. Certain types of self-styled conservatives yield almost as high a Disagree percentage as the admitted reactionaries. The answers of those who regard themselves as “moderate conservatives” or “traditional conservatives” and of the rather small number of persons who pretend to no general opinions about public matters show considerably more variation. But in general the responses to this list of thirty-nine sentences indicate that a liberal line can be drawn somewhere—even if not exactly along this salient—and that most persons fall fairly definitely (though not in equal numbers) on one side of it or the other.

These sentences were not devised arbitrarily. Many of them are taken directly or adapted from the writings of well-known liberals, the French Declaration of the Rights of Man, or the liberal questionnaires that have been put out in recent years by the American Civil Liberties Union. The last eight are quoted verbatim from the United Nations’ “Universal Declaration of Human Rights,” adopted in 1948 by the United Nations General Assembly.
***********

Shared for your thoughts and entertainment. It's not a doc I created.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #1214 on: August 22, 2018, 07:58:40 PM »

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/what-trumps-supporters-think-of-corruption/568147/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=the-atlantic-fb-test-312-4-&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_medium=social

Quote
When Morning Consult asked Americans in May 2016 to explain why they disliked Hillary Clinton, the second-most-common answer was that she was “corrupt.” And yet, Trump supporters appear largely unfazed by the mounting evidence that Trump is the least ethical president in modern American history. When asked last month whether they considered Trump corrupt, only 14 percent of Republicans said yes. Even Cohen’s allegation is unlikely to change that.

The answer may lie in how Trump and his supporters define corruption. In a forthcoming book titled How Fascism Works, the Yale philosophy professor Jason Stanley makes an intriguing claim. “Corruption, to the fascist politician,” he suggests, “is really about the corruption of purity rather than of the law. Officially, the fascist politician’s denunciations of corruption sound like a denunciation of political corruption. But such talk is intended to evoke corruption in the sense of the usurpation of the traditional order.”

Fox’s decision to focus on the Iowa murder rather than Cohen’s guilty plea illustrates Stanley’s point. In the eyes of many Fox viewers, I suspect, the network isn’t ignoring corruption so much as highlighting the kind that really matters. When Trump instructed Cohen to pay off women with whom he’d had affairs, he may have been violating the law. But he was upholding traditional gender and class hierarchies. Since time immemorial, powerful men have been cheating on their wives and using their power to evade the consequences.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham
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