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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[josh]

I want a wall and bridges and infrastructure. Sorry I am not for open borders or mass immigration like HRC or Nancy or Chuck. But I cannot afford to bailout when the US inevitably turns into a third world quagmire.

Given that none of them is for open borders, either, I think you are exactly for open borders and/or mass immigration like them.

So, here we are with a declining unauthorized immigration number over 40+ years and with the bulk of those unauthorized folks coming from places other than south of the border, and you keep obsessing over your ineffective wall that won't stop what you fear.

Luee, THE WALL WILL NOT WORK. There are already tunnels under our border areas and there will be more. They Egyptians have this problem with the Gazans, why on Earth would you think, especially given our border terrain, that we can do better than they can?

[josh]

The inheritance tax,is immoral.  The Warren " wealth tax" is illegal.

Repeating yourself does not actually constitute an argument.

I am stating a fact not an argument.

And btw, gift taxes happen while you're alive - and it is, again, the FEDERAL government taxing money that you have already been taxed on.

Who pays gift taxes?

So, no, not yours forever, under certain circumstances.

Under ALL circumstances

And... you misinterpret what the 16th Amendment was/is for. It was not to restrict the taxing ability of Congress, but to answer/reverse a prior SCOTUS decision that blocked income taxes as had been formulated under a prior law.

One example of an explanation at hand is here:
https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1218&context=faculty_publications

Nice article 
Doesn't change the the meaning of the 16th amendment.
Taxing wealth is illegal.

No, it doesn't change the meaning.

You just have the meaning wrong.

The discussion on Wikipedia on the topic explains it thoroughly, in cited law book after cited law book.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Pollock_overruled

As construed by the Supreme Court in the Brushaber case, the power of Congress to tax income derives from Article I, Section 8, Clause 1, of the original Constitution rather than from the Sixteenth Amendment; the latter simply eliminated the requirement that an income tax, to the extent that it is a direct tax, must be apportioned among the states. A corollary of this conclusion is that any direct tax that is not imposed on "income" remains subject to the rule of apportionment. Because the Sixteenth Amendment does not purport to define the term "direct tax," the scope of that constitutional phrase remains as debatable as it was before 1913; but the practical significance of the issue was greatly reduced once income taxes, even if direct, were relieved from the requirement of apportionment.

or

Courts have essentially abandoned the permissive interpretation created in Pollock. Subsequent cases have viewed the Sixteenth Amendment as a rejection of Pollock's definition of "direct tax". The apportionment requirement again applies only to real estate and capitation taxes. Even if the Sixteenth Amendment is not viewed as narrowing the definition of direct taxes, it at least introduces an additional consideration to analysis under the Apportionment Clause. For the Court to strike an unapportioned tax, plaintiffs must establish not only that a tax is a direct tax, but also that it is not in the subset of direct taxes known as an income tax.

or many others.

But...

as ever, you are too rigid to be able to admit that you are wrong about your understanding of the 16th Amendment to be saying that only income taxes can be levied.

It gives permission for income taxes, rather than taking away permission for other taxes.

[josh]

The inheritance tax,is immoral.  The Warren " wealth tax" is illegal.

Repeating yourself does not actually constitute an argument.

I am stating a fact not an argument.

And btw, gift taxes happen while you're alive - and it is, again, the FEDERAL government taxing money that you have already been taxed on.

Who pays gift taxes?

So, no, not yours forever, under certain circumstances.

Under ALL circumstances

And... you misinterpret what the 16th Amendment was/is for. It was not to restrict the taxing ability of Congress, but to answer/reverse a prior SCOTUS decision that blocked income taxes as had been formulated under a prior law.

One example of an explanation at hand is here:
https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1218&context=faculty_publications

Nice article 
Doesn't change the the meaning of the 16th amendment.
Taxing wealth is illegal.

No, it doesn't change the meaning.

You just have the meaning wrong.

LOL
The 16th Amendment allows the federal government to tax incomes.
Make a note of that.

Yes, it allows the income tax.

It does not restrict the federal government to only taxing incomes, which is the mistake you have made and cannot admit to.

Oh, you asked two posts ago who pays income taxes and the answer is the person giving the money, not the person receiving it.

I have a billion dollars. I give my kid $15,000,000 and I pay the gift tax.

IOW, you have been taxed twice by the federal government on the same money.

There, there. /pats head/

[bambu-wisdom]

Tunnels under the border?
I simply cannot believe that the CIA etc could not find them all, and stop what's being transported in them...if it wanted to.

[josh]

Tunnels under the border?
I simply cannot believe that the CIA etc could not find them all, and stop what's being transported in them...if it wanted to.

Of course you can't.

It goes against your narrative.

How many CIA operatives do you think there are? How many miles of border? Again, Egypt has a far shorter border with far less exciting terrain and they still have to uncover and destroy many tunnels, repeatedly. Israel has had to do the same.

[facilitatorn]

I’m glad this forum is giving Red a chance to work on a legal defense of his tax fraud. His argument is still very very thin so I expect we’ll be hearing him continue to fantasize about what is and isn’t in the Constitution for many post to come.

On the other hand Kid is warning that corporate welfare causes greater risk to the United States than legal and illegal immigration combined. It’s like the scales have fallen from his eyes and he’s beginning to see the light. I credit it to the social media skills of AOC.

[facilitatorn]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/01/trump-approval-polls-shutdown/581215/

It’s certainly been taking long enough.

[luee]

FDR built to keep Americans employed. He was opposed by an ever diminishing group of right wing conservatives. Now a role taken over by the left wing elite. Everything positive is dirty filthy and harms animals and babies.

---WHEN AMERICA'S INFRASTRUCTURE SAVED DEMOCRACY
FDR's dedication to infrastructure saved America once. Could it happen again?---

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a24692/fdr-new-deal-wpa-infrastructure/

The symbolism is not lost. Stay away primitive violent people. Your culture is a failing mess and we do not need you here taking jobs and stretching safety net programs to the brink.

[REDSTATEWARD]

I have a billion dollars. I give my kid $15,000,000 and I pay the gift tax.

IOW, you have been taxed twice by the federal government on the same money.

There, there. /pats head/

There is no gift tax to be paid.
But at least you are grasping the idea that taxes are paid when money is earned, not when it is saved or invested. Income from accumulated wealth is subject to the income tax.

[LarryBnDC]

The inheritance tax,is immoral.  The Warren " wealth tax" is illegal.

Repeating yourself does not actually constitute an argument.

I am stating a fact not an argument.

And btw, gift taxes happen while you're alive - and it is, again, the FEDERAL government taxing money that you have already been taxed on.

Who pays gift taxes?

So, no, not yours forever, under certain circumstances.

Under ALL circumstances

And... you misinterpret what the 16th Amendment was/is for. It was not to restrict the taxing ability of Congress, but to answer/reverse a prior SCOTUS decision that blocked income taxes as had been formulated under a prior law.

One example of an explanation at hand is here:
https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1218&context=faculty_publications

Nice article 
Doesn't change the the meaning of the 16th amendment.
Taxing wealth is illegal.

What do you call property taxes?

[bankshot1]

I think Alfred Hitchcock would understand the "wall" isisue for what it really is. 

A MacGuffin, a plot device, the audience really doesn't care about, to move the story forward.

Trump's wall, in the name of protecting the southern border, from a brown menace that really doesn't exist, is just his plot device for 2020.

Its the stuff Trump's dream are made of, except instead of a bejeweled black bird, Trumps are made of concrete and barbed wire.

[josh]

I have a billion dollars. I give my kid $15,000,000 and I pay the gift tax.

IOW, you have been taxed twice by the federal government on the same money.

There, there. /pats head/

There is no gift tax to be paid.
But at least you are grasping the idea that taxes are paid when money is earned, not when it is saved or invested. Income from accumulated wealth is subject to the income tax.

Is it ignorance or mere cussedness that prevents you from uttering the truth?

"There is no gift tax to be paid."

The IRS begs to differ with you.
https://www.irs.com/articles/7-things-you-should-know-about-gift-tax

"taxes are paid when money is earned, not when it is saved or invested. Income from accumulated wealth is subject to the income tax."

No.

INCOME taxes are paid when money is earned.

GIFT taxes are paid when money is given to another person (depending on amount and purpose). This is an example you keep denying, but your denying it doesn't cause it to stop existing. And yes, there are people who pay gift taxes.

ESTATE taxes are not about money's being earned, either.

And the proposed WEALTH tax no more falls afoul of the Constitution than either GIFT taxes or ESTATE taxes, despite your utter misrepresentation (or misunderstanding) of the 16th Amendment.

[josh]

The inheritance tax,is immoral.  The Warren " wealth tax" is illegal.

Repeating yourself does not actually constitute an argument.

I am stating a fact not an argument.

And btw, gift taxes happen while you're alive - and it is, again, the FEDERAL government taxing money that you have already been taxed on.

Who pays gift taxes?

So, no, not yours forever, under certain circumstances.

Under ALL circumstances

And... you misinterpret what the 16th Amendment was/is for. It was not to restrict the taxing ability of Congress, but to answer/reverse a prior SCOTUS decision that blocked income taxes as had been formulated under a prior law.

One example of an explanation at hand is here:
https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1218&context=faculty_publications

Nice article 
Doesn't change the the meaning of the 16th amendment.
Taxing wealth is illegal.

What do you call property taxes?

He would call it irrelevant because when he says "government" he defines it as only meaning the federal government, in good measure because it runs counter to his argument.

[REDSTATEWARD]

The inheritance tax,is immoral.  The Warren " wealth tax" is illegal.

Repeating yourself does not actually constitute an argument.

I am stating a fact not an argument.

And btw, gift taxes happen while you're alive - and it is, again, the FEDERAL government taxing money that you have already been taxed on.

Who pays gift taxes?

So, no, not yours forever, under certain circumstances.

Under ALL circumstances

And... you misinterpret what the 16th Amendment was/is for. It was not to restrict the taxing ability of Congress, but to answer/reverse a prior SCOTUS decision that blocked income taxes as had been formulated under a prior law.

One example of an explanation at hand is here:
https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1218&context=faculty_publications

Nice article 
Doesn't change the the meaning of the 16th amendment.
Taxing wealth is illegal.

What do you call property taxes?

Property taxes are the primary source of money for local governments to provide necessary public services such as fire and police protection, schools, etc. 

[barton]

ergo....