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Warriors

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Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[lesterluv]

Fizdale kept the French lottery pick out of the starting lineup to spare him from foul trouble, the coach said.

Next game, to keep him from reinjuring his groin.

Next game, to keep him ready for Team France in 2020

Next game....

[bodiddley]

He's the 2nd highest paid Mav at $20M this year with a player option for $19M next.  Yikes.


Yeah, but you know NBA salaries are based on circumstance

THJ still a valuable guy

NBA salaries are mostly based on a team willing to overpay.

I think he's a net negative and his career PER basically backs that up.  Especially since he's slightly below average and PER measures O, not D where he is largely ineffective.

AuRevoir had 3 assists last game.
I guess with Harden and Rustbrook dominating the Spalding, other players aren't going to have the ball much, let alone have chances to move it on.

[bodiddley]

I like that Fizz experiments and tries different guys.
But I really really believe in starting a PG.
Who cares if Franc gets in foul trouble?
Also, I find this idea that the 19 year old rook should play 30+ mins and try to learn the NBA Point as well rather frustrating.

As for Portis, I'm going to keep track of his FTA's.
For a guy who O-boards fairly well, he gets few FT's.  But it also is a useful proxy for whether he is driving or just shooting 3's without pressuring the D.  He needs to to both as he did
in his Running of the Bulls game.

And of course this is another lost season.  If you want W's or playoffs.  Everybody is real young and/or real new.  Also  the PG void is an issue.  And some duplicated skills on a crowded roster.
Fizz has his work cut out for him.

[facilitatorn]

It’s clear RJ is not a closing point guard.

The best ROI from a coaching perspective is getting Frank to hit shots.

Our fourth quarter spacing was noticeably terrible.

Fizz is not doing so hot winning me back to his side with the coaching decisions he’s making.

[Kam]

Frank is still super tentative.  Doesn't drive looking to score.  He thinks the other four Knicks on the floor are always better options and treats himself as option 5 about 99% of the time he has the ball.  Have the coaches worked with him on this?  Apparently not. 

[bodiddley]

What drives me crazy is he is often tentative on his passes as well.

Sometimes you just have to be aggressive and think "I'm getting my shot off" and only alter that mindset if the defense forces you to or makes a mistake.

Took me a long time, but the last 10 years plus, I think the ball is going in every time I shoot it.  And when it doesn't,  I try to understand why and beleive I will correct that on the next shot.  Or make sure to take a different type of shot (if say I feel my 3-ball is off; or my corner 3's are wacky, but from top of the arc is good, or whatever).

You just need to offend with confidence.
Also, map where your teammates are so you can make quick passing decisions.

Franc just looks so much more in his element on D, where he knows what to do, and usually has an impact.  This was especially noticeable this Summer on Team Frenchie, where as soon as change of possession, Franc's energy picked up, he knew where to go immediately, he was engaged and confident.  Strange.

[Kam]

It pisses me off that we see this and scouts who watch him didn't see this.  He was a waste of a #8 pick.

[lesterluv]

He was a waste of a #8 pick.

Perhaps, but we won't know until after 25 starts, lol.

** I suspect, that eventually, likely sooner than later, he will become exceptionally good value for 2 second round picks for somebody!

[Kam]

He was a waste of a #8 pick.

Perhaps, but we won't know until after 25 starts, lol.

** I suspect, that eventually, likely sooner than later, he will become exceptionally good value for 2 second round picks for somebody!

What's the value of playing  a game manager at PG who isn't a threat to the defense.  You're playing 4 on 5 out there.  Yes the defense is good.   But you need to keep other defenses honest also, so the ceiling for this type of prospect s a late #1 or early 2nd rounder.   He went 8th because some scout somewhere said "if he ever gets an offensive game he will be worth picking this early"..... well... we are still waiting for something he innately doesn't have.  Never will have.

[bodiddley]

Scouting and projecting young players isn't easy.
In Eurohoopsland, everyone touches the ball and passes, so the PG role is somewhat devalued.  Also, they don't go in for 1-on-1 scoring PG action like the NBA.  It was probably hard to detect that Franc couldn't shoot or would have trouble being an NBA PG.  And of course he was 18 at the time, so you have to try to project out.  While Euroteams tend to play vets heavy minutes and young guys not much.  I'll try to check on Franc's French minutes, but I think it was under 20 a game.

As for scouting, Franc was seen a pass-first true PG with good vision and good athleticism.  Check out this write-up on pre-NBA Franc which credits him with ...
Well, hell, I'll just quote the entire NBAdraftnet positives on Franco:

Strengths: Elite size for a point guard with very good athleticism and quickness … Impressive wingspan (close to 7 ft)… Very mature for his age with a good basketball IQ … He has a thin frame, but his body structure suggests that he can add weight and increase his muscle tone nicely …

A true point guard with a “pass first” mentality … He can control the pace of the game nicely … Excellent passer with great court vision … He is always looking to find the open teammate … He can pass on the move and also while penetrating … Excels on the open court and loves to run the break … Great ball handler … He has a nice hesitation dribble and he has also an improving crossover dribble on his repertoire …

Possesses an explosive first step …Really good on ISO situations thanks to his athleticism, length and excellent ball handling … He can create his own shoot and score off the dribble from mid-range and has also a floater as a counter move …
When he has time to gather he can finish strong at the rim… Improving 3-point shooter… He is already very good on Pick and Roll situations as the ball handler, because he shows patience and is always looking for the right choice …

His body and physical tools are his biggest weapons on Defense … He has great lateral quickness which helps him stay in front of his man … When he is motivated on Defense he can be a lockdown defender … His length and athleticism help him make a lot of steals … Versatile defender with the potential to guard multiple positions in the future … He has a high upside…

Everything I bolded is essentially just wrong.

Great ballhandler?  Rookie year he could barely bring the ball up court under pressure and would be forced to the sidelines.
Can create his own shot?
Explosive first step

You can check out the shorter weakness section, which says that his J looks a bit funny which is probably why his 3's aren't really good.

Overall: Ntilikina is undoubtedly one of the best International players of his generation. His elite physical tools and feel for the game, combined with his high upside makes him a really intriguing prospect ... He is not NBA ready just yet, but he has all the tools to become a very good player in the future ...

Er . . .
Maybe the Knix development process has been partly to blame.  Les thinks Fizz has jerked him around.  Management certainly has..

[facilitatorn]

Oh hell no. He’s just going to be getting better on D as he goes. He’s quick for his length with the ball and noticeably better at getting to spots than he was. Getting there on balance to finish jumpers and accounting for help to finish drives would up his percentages.

Frank is climbing the guard pile. He should be given time to get his offensive role together.

I disagree about his offense, Kam. It’s better for us if it doesn’t take another coach or another team to bring it out.

[lesterluv]

Just do what he does and be able to nail the shot at about 35% and he's of immense value to winning teams.

** I guess you don't watch anybody else but the Knicks and haven't seen many of those, lol.

He ain't no Markelle Fultz, or DJr., lol, ain't no problem with the mechanics. His FLOOR is vaunted Elfrid's career average. But Kam knows everything, as demonstrated by his track record.


*** Let's just stop twisting ourselves in knots to avoid playing him or fucking trade him already. He can't hurt us in the least. There is nothing to hurt.

[lesterluv]

Maybe the Knix development process has been partly to blame.  Les thinks Fizz has jerked him around.  Management certainly has..

It's possible I am totally wrong.** But let's just find out shall we. We didn't get doodoosquat from a million Mudiay minutes or Trey Burke minutes. Now it's Elfrid Payton minutes or whoever minutes. Just hand him the keys. Give him the unlimited run everybody else has had. Or ship him the f' out...BASTA YA.



*** It has happened...once.



*** Seriously, nobody else has gotten the 45 second yanks Frank gets, despite the whatever I love Frank words the other day, it's like FazWhale has a viagra-induced hard on to destroy the boy. Yeah we've all seen the hesitancy and the weak ass passes, and we've also seen sweet moves and bad ass passes. It's obvious as hell it's  head that's keeping him from having an NBA game, though clearly he's never gonna be a Russ Westbrook beat your ass down off the drive but he doesn't have to be. Now maybe that head is uncurable, unfixable, certainly there are guys like that, but I don't think so, you can see how he's been treated from the bench, anyway, we invested the #8, just do your due diligence and then move on, so stupid, but it's what we've come to expect from the "brain trust." I mean how many starts (twice as many as frank in career) & minutes did K Knox get last year and it's resulted in a marginally improved player who will still play a critical role in losing you dozens of games a year if you actually left him on the floor. But he ain't a Euro and he's willing to drive into traffic with the truly, truly horrible shit until your eyes bleed.

[Kam]

What did i say that touched a nerve?  There's no aggression in his game.   I've long been a Frank booster but he has watched NBA ball for a few years now and shown no adjustment to this more one on one style.
 You need to at least have the threat of being able to take your man and score on him.

So us as fans of his and anyone else can see that he has the killer instinct mentality of an earthworm.  He either knows he can't do it athletically, or he just doesn't have the minimum selfishness required to be a primary ball handler.  It's not eurohoops.  Its the NBA.  You have to be able to get yours.

[bodiddley]

Word was DAL was interested in Franc, as they wanted a pass-first PG. Though that might have just been a feint to get the Knix to leave Smith Jr. for them.  Phil likes big G's.  Wanted a ball-mover who played D, wasn't worried too much about scoring.

Drafting and scouting isn't easy.

Knix had their choice of two touted PG's.
Jr. Smith was seen as dynamic but already had a knee op.  And his floor game and defense were questioned.  Though it was assumed he could score at will.

No one knew that Donovan Mitchell's middle name was Dwyane Wade, or he wouldn't have lasted to #13. I'm glad we didn't draft Monk (#11) who looks lost on D and who shot has been shot.

It was a pretty deep draft:
John or Zach Collins would have been nice to have.

There were the usual late-round picks who are better than your #9 pick:
Bam #23; Kuz #27; Derrick White #29

Nobody knew that Derrick White was the 2nd best guard (after Micthell) below the Top 5.  And even in the Top 5, it's not clear Fox is better, though he's more of a real Point.  Same with Bonzo Lol.

Drafts are crapshoots.
Knix had a good Euroscouting system.  And I'm pretty sure the Franc pick was before Phil fired our main Euro-scout Gaines.
I'm always skeptical of Euro PG's.  Few succeed in the NBA.  But I was happy with either PG choice -- Smith or Franc.
Certainly looks like a draft where best player was regardless of position would have been better.  But seems Franc and Smith were (mistakenly) rated highly.

An odd draft in which 5 of the first 9 picks were PG's.
And 3 of those -- Fultz, Ball and Franc can't shoot.
4 of them terrible on 3's
(Fox just below 35% for his career -- but hit 37% in Y2).
Ball has the 2nd best career 3-Pt% of the group at 31.8%