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Warriors

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Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[kidcarter8]

I knew we cant afford Randle, RJ, Brunson and Mitchell into the future as RJ will need to get paid next year , but I was hoping for one year with all 4, so that we can better see what what. Who stays, who needs to go.



Nice idea.  It seems to be possible, depending on what we are willing to give.


Your statement on RJ is the reason I figured we swap HIM for Mitchell (an upgrade) - Randle's  deal is more palatable than what it seems RJ wants.

If you disagree - do you see Barrett taking a Jaylen Brown type contract (I think it was 4-106)?

Brown was coming off a 48/38/72 percentage 20+ point season at 16.9 PER

[Kam]

1. What is the hurry?  No urgency for Knicks to get this deal done before the season - is there?     Everything I've read and heard is that Ainge wants to play the lottery odds, not be a potential play-in team with Mitchell.  So he is motivated to make a deal.   Who are we bidding against?  Nobody can offer Ainge unprotected Knicks first round picks (historically very juicy) except the Knicks at this point.    Good luck finding your next building block with a new contract eligible Tyler Herro and bunch of Miami Heat first rounders in the mid 20s.

2.  Flowing from the first thought, by not making a deal before the season we get to see how the veterans look with a top 15 point guard running the show.   Randle's turnovers and assists will decrease, but possessions should end in fewer turnovers overall.   I predict Randle will look a lot better.

3. Flowing from the second thought, if Randle looks better then our trade package assets get more interesting.  We may ultimately give up less the longer we wait. Or if Utah down't want Randle we can get more by waiting to trade him elsewhere when his value is higher.  Let Brunson see what he can do for Evan and Julius.

4. I only want to part with players playing in Mitchells minutes.... IQ would hurt to lose but I would understand. Ditto McBride, DRose, the rights to Jokubitis etc.

5. Not dealing RJ for Spida.  Holding onto Grimes like hell.   and only reluctantly would I part with OBI but then that should be one fewer unprotected pick that I would include if Ainge demands OBI.     I would be good with 2 Knicks unprotected firsts and one of (IQ/OBI) one of (Reddish McBride) plus a pick swap, and 2 of the 3 first rounders we hold from other teams.

That gives Ainge 4 firsts, (2 of the unprotected Knicks variety) the right to swap for another first, plus two young rotational players with upside.  Plus the veterans to make the money work.

That's a haul for Utah.  Basically can rebuild under the OKC model.  Anything more would be catering to Ainge's greed. 


Meanwhile the Knicks still hold onto one of their own unprotected first, the pick from the utah swap, one of the frps in the future from other teams and some youth for the next deal that comes down the road.

[kidcarter8]

Utah

Conley
Clarkson
(Mitchell)
(Beverley)
Beasley
Jar Butler
Alexander-Walker
(Boj Bogdanovic)
Paschall
Gay
Vanderbilt
Whiteside
+ 7 young unprovens

[kidcarter8]

So they are basically building around NOBODY

[chipstern]

Kevin Durant Wants To Be Traded.

Why?

Who Knows.  Could he want to get away from his best bro Kyrie?  Just a thought.  Kevin hasn't said why, so just spitballing here. 

Thought he was all in love with the borough of Brooklyn, as per his snarky post-signing remarks with passing pisstakes on the Knicks and James Dolan. 

Duly noted.

Nyets paid him what, something in the neighborhood of $40 Million to take off his entire first season to rehab his injury. 

Awfully decent of them. 

Then they traded for James Harden to make him and Kyrie happy, and when that didn't work out, they did likewise by trading for Ben Simmons. 

Durant, Irving, Simmons?  Pretty good combo to make a playoffs push. 

But Kevin wants to be traded.

ONCE MORE...Not A Chance In Hell.  Kevin is NOT going to be wearing a Nyets uniform in 2022-23 and beyond: due $44-47-51-54 million through 2025-26. 

The Nyets are going to want a significant return to offload poor pouty Kevin. 

First of all, who has $44 million in tradeable assets?  Russell Westbrook?  Don't think that gets it done. 

Likewise, putting together enough talent with high enough cap matching kinda defeats the whole purpose of trading for Kevin in the first place, as you will no longer have significant talent around him, so what the fuck?  Let alone, the Nyets, understandably, want your best back: Devin Booker, Scottie Barnes, Bam Adobayo? 

So, tough titties, Kevin. 

When you're a Nyet you're a Nyet all the way, from the training camp on to you last dribbling day, when you're a Nyet, with a guaranteed four, you can't simply blow that off, and be done with the draw...



WHEN YOU'RE A NYET YOU STAY A NYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEETTT...

[chipstern]

1. What is the hurry?  No urgency for Knicks to get this deal done before the season - is there?     Everything I've read and heard is that Ainge wants to play the lottery odds, not be a potential play-in team with Mitchell.  So he is motivated to make a deal.   Who are we bidding against?  Nobody can offer Ainge unprotected Knicks first round picks (historically very juicy) except the Knicks at this point.    Good luck finding your next building block with a new contract eligible Tyler Herro and bunch of Miami Heat first rounders in the mid 20s.

2.  Flowing from the first thought, by not making a deal before the season we get to see how the veterans look with a top 15 point guard running the show.   Randle's turnovers and assists will decrease, but possessions should end in fewer turnovers overall.   I predict Randle will look a lot better.

3. Flowing from the second thought, if Randle looks better then our trade package assets get more interesting.  We may ultimately give up less the longer we wait. Or if Utah down't want Randle we can get more by waiting to trade him elsewhere when his value is higher.  Let Brunson see what he can do for Evan and Julius.

4. I only want to part with players playing in Mitchells minutes.... IQ would hurt to lose but I would understand. Ditto McBride, DRose, the rights to Jokubitis etc.

5. Not dealing RJ for Spida.  Holding onto Grimes like hell.   and only reluctantly would I part with OBI but then that should be one fewer unprotected pick that I would include if Ainge demands OBI.     I would be good with 2 Knicks unprotected firsts and one of (IQ/OBI) one of (Reddish McBride) plus a pick swap, and 2 of the 3 first rounders we hold from other teams.

That gives Ainge 4 firsts, (2 of the unprotected Knicks variety) the right to swap for another first, plus two young rotational players with upside.  Plus the veterans to make the money work.

That's a haul for Utah.  Basically can rebuild under the OKC model.  Anything more would be catering to Ainge's greed. 


Meanwhile the Knicks still hold onto one of their own unprotected first, the pick from the utah swap, one of the frps in the future from other teams and some youth for the next deal that comes down the road.

Thoughtful synopsis. 

Yes, IQ would be redundant with Donovann Mitchell on board.  Yes that would hurt.  Deuce, would sting for me, but again, DM takes his minutes. 

Julius might very well be part of a deal to make the numbers work.  Likewise Evan. 

But fuck Danny Ainge vis a vis Obi Toppin. No way.  And I feel that strongly about Quentin and RJ as well. 

The idea is to empower our youth, not gut the team. 

Agree that the Knicks simply sit tight.  Let Ainge sweat it out.  WHO IS GOING TO OFFER MORE THAN THE KNICKS?  Or CAN?  We should rush into it because Ainge wants to work more deals?  Sorry, Weasel. 

[kidcarter8]

These az-o-lays with these headlines.....


https://hoopshype.com/2022/07/22/lebron-james-has-seen-enough-has-no-interest-in-another-year-with-russell-westbrook-as-teammate/

[carlos123]

FUCKDANNYAINGE
GO FLEECE SOMEONE ELSE!
Then, you can come back with something reasonable.

[kiidcarter8]

New deal discussed

4 number ones including our '23 and unprotected Dallas pick
Miles McBride
Evan Fournier
Cam Reddish

for...

Donovan Mitchell

[chipstern]

New deal discussed

4 number ones including our '23 and unprotected Dallas pick
Miles McBride
Evan Fournier
Cam Reddish

for...

Donovan Mitchell

NOT DISCUSSED...Proposed. 

This trade is a suggestion flolated on line by beat writer Ian Begley. 

Not based on some actual "this just in" intelligence. 

PS: As far as Bagley's phantasy, makes a certain amount of sense, but I would be hesitant to include Reddish if I were laying out such a magic carpet of draft assets.  I guess the reasoning is we still have the 6'8" Feron Hunt, and I like him, but the 6'8" Cam Reddish is another level of talent, good defender, excellent FT shooter, and his length and athleticism gives us coverage at the 3-2-4 spots, and while RJ and Grimes at the 3 spot is doable, leaves us precariously a little on the smallish side, what with a pair of 6'1" jockeys in the back court, and the 6'3" IQ and Rose in reserve.  Not beyond the realm of reason, I mean, Cleveland has Garland and Sexton at 6'1", and Rubio at 6'2", with Okoro at 6'5", LaVert at 6'6" and Ossman at 6'7" as their big wings, so not that different from our own 'projected' back court.  Anyway...another day, another wet dream. 

[kiidcarter8]

Still...nothing there for Ainge to build around

[chipstern]

Still...nothing there for Ainge to build around

At the end of the day, it is all about the draft assets.

As per the Sam Presti Model

https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/draft-coverage/a-comprehensive-guide-to-the-thunders-future-draft-picks

Including the Thunder's own picks, Sam Presti has stockpiled 19 first rounders and 19 second rounders through 2029. 

Clearly, the Knicks Brock Aller & Scott Perry, who have nurtured a very friendly Trader Vic relationship with Presti [going back to Perry's Carmelo Anthony exchange, and including the #32 for #34/#36 exchange in 2021 which netted the Knicks point guards Jokubaitis & McBride, with the Thunder reeling in Villinova PF Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, and the Byzantine 2022 exchanges which got us four #1 picks, one of the which was directed towards Charlotte for Duren, who was in turn sent to Detroit to incentivize taking Kemba, Nerlens and Alec's salaries off of our cap in pursuit of Brunson & Hartenstein and re-upping Mitchell & Jericho] and derive considerable inspiration from TRADER SAM PRESTI as well in terms of a slow build forward, vis a vis purposeful deployment of cap space and stockpiling of draft picks. 

Remains to be seen whom amongst the veterans Ainge has brought in from the Minny deal is re-directed, but I do believe he is not above going into Partial Tank Mode while trying to offlad most of the players he got from Minny. 

PG Mike Conley will be 35 in October, and is owed $22 & 24 million through 2024, something worth reflecting on amongst those who found the Knicks offer to the 26 year old Brunson excessive. 

The contracts of Bojan Bogdanovic [$19.5] and Patrick Beverley [$13] expire in the summer of 2023. 

Malik Beasley will be 26 this fall, and is due $15.5 with a team option for 2023-2024. 

Jordan Clarkson just turned 30, is due $13 this season, with a player option for $14 in 2023-24.

Rudy Gay will be 36 in August, is due $6 this season with a player otpion for $6 in 2023-24.

The only keepers I can discern for the Jazz in the way of players from the trade are 6'9" PF Jartred Vanderbilt [23 years old], who is due $4.3 & 4.6 over the next two seasons, rookie center Walker Kessler, while sophomore Argentinian guard Leandro Balmoro [who was drafted by the Knicks, and forwarded to Minny in the machinations which led to us selecting Quickley] seems a little dicey. 

So, in looking at all of this mishegas, Ainge has a lot of work to do. 

Tell you what, with all of the maneuvering, if we were to take back one of Ainge's vets in some Mitchell transaction, I would not look down my nose at the expiring contract of the 33 year old Patrick Beverley if Rose is out of here.  He's a dog. Or Bogdonavich, who would ease the pain of losing Reddish, well...somewhat.  He can flat out shoot. 

Anyway, I am pleased to see the Knicks are taking their own sweet time on this deal, and I have made my peace with the fact that something is going to happen. 

[chipstern]

Presti has reeled in some very nice YOUNG pieces, such as burgeoning star, the 6'6" 24 year old PG Shai Gilgeous-Alexander from the Paul George Haul, and the supremely gifted 19 year old 6'8" combo guard Josh Giddey; a host of long, rangy [well, THIN as fuck] stretch 5/4 types such as 7'1" Chet Holmgren, 7'0" Aleksej Pokusevski, 6'10" Ousmane Dieng, the aforementioned 6'9" Villinova PF Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, big PGs Theo Maledon and Tre Mann...

All young, Young, YOUNG, and Well HUNG. 

[elephant]

New deal discussed

4 number ones including our '23 and unprotected Dallas pick
Miles McBride
Evan Fournier
Cam Reddish

for...

Donovan Mitchell

Just in terms of personnel?

To get DM and still keep RJ, OBI, IQ and Grimes?

Fuck yeah.

Which is what makes it such a nice fantasy.

[chipstern]

New deal discussed

4 number ones including our '23 and unprotected Dallas pick
Miles McBride
Evan Fournier
Cam Reddish

for...

Donovan Mitchell

Just in terms of personnel?

To get DM and still keep RJ, OBI, IQ and Grimes?

Fuck yeah.

Which is what makes it such a nice fantasy.

Agreed...grudgingly, as I have a thing for Cam Reddish, and Deuce, but...still...RJ & Grimes, Obi...one more year of ROSE.  Mitchell kind of cancels Deuce's floor time, as does IQ, and Feron Hunt might be ready to contribute at SF, and would surely be happier getting Obi minutes than Cam would.   

But, YES, that is something more along the lines of a fair deal, as Fournier ain't chopped liver [and only two years left on his contract], Cam is only 22, Deuce is only 21 and four #1 picks still qualifies as a significant haul in these here parts.