Total Members Voted: 11
Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM
I believe a great many police departments, if not most, prohibit their officers from firing warning shots and train them not to do so.
I think we should stop calling them tragedies.
Quote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 09:17:55 PMQuote from: kidcarter8 on April 21, 2021, 08:16:05 PMQuote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 07:49:50 PMQuote from: facilitatorn on April 21, 2021, 05:58:44 PMQuote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:52:29 PMYes. Here's my updated post...with a second edit... Did the footage you found show a longer timeframe? I caught the affiliate link and it was too tightly packed to give context. 15-20 seconds of lead up would clarify things a lot.Sorry, Fac, I'm so slow to reply. Agree. The footage that the PD released is what I saw and it seems to drop you into the middle of things, so it's hard to get context. As Larry pointed out, you don't hear the cop using "command voice" during the segment we get. I'm not sure there was much time for any coherent verbal response. And it is impossible to call any outcome "the right thing. " What were the girl-in-pink's chances, if he'd fired in the air, or at Makhia's feet, or rushed in with a baton? It was happening so fast, and I can honestly say I have little concept of how you'd train someone to handle nanosecond judgement calls like that. There was a press conference where much of this was answeredIncluded was the question of why cops generally (and in this case in particular) do not shoot at legs.I'm sure there are reasons. Harder to hit a leg, harder to stop an assailant? Shots fired in the air lack deterrent effect? I've heard this before. And there may be stats to back it up. I think it's a good trend if body cams stay on, and police are as transparent as possible when tragedies happen. But it still needs to be asked if this tragedy had to happen. Huh?
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 21, 2021, 08:16:05 PMQuote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 07:49:50 PMQuote from: facilitatorn on April 21, 2021, 05:58:44 PMQuote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:52:29 PMYes. Here's my updated post...with a second edit... Did the footage you found show a longer timeframe? I caught the affiliate link and it was too tightly packed to give context. 15-20 seconds of lead up would clarify things a lot.Sorry, Fac, I'm so slow to reply. Agree. The footage that the PD released is what I saw and it seems to drop you into the middle of things, so it's hard to get context. As Larry pointed out, you don't hear the cop using "command voice" during the segment we get. I'm not sure there was much time for any coherent verbal response. And it is impossible to call any outcome "the right thing. " What were the girl-in-pink's chances, if he'd fired in the air, or at Makhia's feet, or rushed in with a baton? It was happening so fast, and I can honestly say I have little concept of how you'd train someone to handle nanosecond judgement calls like that. There was a press conference where much of this was answeredIncluded was the question of why cops generally (and in this case in particular) do not shoot at legs.I'm sure there are reasons. Harder to hit a leg, harder to stop an assailant? Shots fired in the air lack deterrent effect? I've heard this before. And there may be stats to back it up. I think it's a good trend if body cams stay on, and police are as transparent as possible when tragedies happen. But it still needs to be asked if this tragedy had to happen.
Quote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 07:49:50 PMQuote from: facilitatorn on April 21, 2021, 05:58:44 PMQuote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:52:29 PMYes. Here's my updated post...with a second edit... Did the footage you found show a longer timeframe? I caught the affiliate link and it was too tightly packed to give context. 15-20 seconds of lead up would clarify things a lot.Sorry, Fac, I'm so slow to reply. Agree. The footage that the PD released is what I saw and it seems to drop you into the middle of things, so it's hard to get context. As Larry pointed out, you don't hear the cop using "command voice" during the segment we get. I'm not sure there was much time for any coherent verbal response. And it is impossible to call any outcome "the right thing. " What were the girl-in-pink's chances, if he'd fired in the air, or at Makhia's feet, or rushed in with a baton? It was happening so fast, and I can honestly say I have little concept of how you'd train someone to handle nanosecond judgement calls like that. There was a press conference where much of this was answeredIncluded was the question of why cops generally (and in this case in particular) do not shoot at legs.
Quote from: facilitatorn on April 21, 2021, 05:58:44 PMQuote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:52:29 PMYes. Here's my updated post...with a second edit... Did the footage you found show a longer timeframe? I caught the affiliate link and it was too tightly packed to give context. 15-20 seconds of lead up would clarify things a lot.Sorry, Fac, I'm so slow to reply. Agree. The footage that the PD released is what I saw and it seems to drop you into the middle of things, so it's hard to get context. As Larry pointed out, you don't hear the cop using "command voice" during the segment we get. I'm not sure there was much time for any coherent verbal response. And it is impossible to call any outcome "the right thing. " What were the girl-in-pink's chances, if he'd fired in the air, or at Makhia's feet, or rushed in with a baton? It was happening so fast, and I can honestly say I have little concept of how you'd train someone to handle nanosecond judgement calls like that.
Quote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:52:29 PMYes. Here's my updated post...with a second edit... Did the footage you found show a longer timeframe? I caught the affiliate link and it was too tightly packed to give context. 15-20 seconds of lead up would clarify things a lot.
Yes. Here's my updated post...with a second edit...
Quote from: Yankguy1 on April 21, 2021, 09:22:36 PMI believe a great many police departments, if not most, prohibit their officers from firing warning shots and train them not to do so.Bullets go upAnd ultimately........
Quote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 08:03:44 PMYou deny that penal servitude effectively perpetuated slavery for Southern blacks? That blacks were selectively targeted and rounded up for petty offenses? These are well-established facts. What's "stupid" about an historical account of peonage and Black Codes? Pay attention to what I wrote.
You deny that penal servitude effectively perpetuated slavery for Southern blacks? That blacks were selectively targeted and rounded up for petty offenses? These are well-established facts. What's "stupid" about an historical account of peonage and Black Codes?
Quote from: kidcarter8 on April 21, 2021, 10:31:21 PMI think we should stop calling them tragedies.You are such a schmuck...
Quote from: LarryBnDC on April 21, 2021, 10:42:24 PMQuote from: kidcarter8 on April 21, 2021, 10:31:21 PMI think we should stop calling them tragedies.You are such a schmuck...If he’s ready to call it planned genocide being executed before our eyes, maybe we can get something meaningful done.
Yes, she sought and received money.Imagine that...
Wouldnt what? Sue the city?
Quote from: UNO on April 21, 2021, 05:11:36 PMQuote from: LarryBnDC on April 21, 2021, 05:02:57 PMQuote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:52:29 PMYes. Here's my updated post...with a second edit... Quote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:11:55 PMQuote from: UNO on April 21, 2021, 02:06:35 PMLarry dodges real conversation. Anything that conflicts with his world view is verboten. Achtung, motherfucker.You seem to bring a particular worldview to the knife-wielder case in question. I didn't get anything in your many posts that suggested you wondered for even a minute if the shooter had alternatives. Maybe Makhia was about to kill someone, but I wouldn't mind some factfinding and context before I assume this was a legit use of force. (full disclosure -- have not seen video, will do so asap) ETA -- the video released has had the shooting itself edited out, because the local affiliate judged it too graphic to show on tv. You hear shots, but it's blacked out. ETA (later) --.found an unedited slomo version of the bodycam footage. Yes, sadly, it looks like she was attacking with a knife and was mid-swing in the process of plunging it into the pink-clad girl who was shoved up against a car. It does appear the knife would have gone in, without an immediate use of force. It's horrific to watch. And speaks to a fairly high level of rage... it's incredible, there's a cop right there, and she keeps right on, shifting her attack from one girl to the other. From a different angle....https://twitter.com/detranmusic/status/1384943308556980228?s=12Deal with the issue at hand, Larry, instead of trying to deflect and change the subject, which is another favorite tool you employ.The Columbus cop. Based on the video, which is what most of these public cases are becoming based upon, did that cop do the right thing?There is a dead girl.Could be my grandkid.No. I’m not gonna sign off on saying the cop did the “right” thing. Why because I’ve seen too much death and violence and one thing I can tell you for sure is life does not happen in super slow motion. From my own experience the officer didn’t use his command voice “STOP! DROP THAT KNIFE!Terrible out come of a terrible situation but no, no one gets to call killing a kid “doing the right thing.”
Quote from: LarryBnDC on April 21, 2021, 05:02:57 PMQuote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:52:29 PMYes. Here's my updated post...with a second edit... Quote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:11:55 PMQuote from: UNO on April 21, 2021, 02:06:35 PMLarry dodges real conversation. Anything that conflicts with his world view is verboten. Achtung, motherfucker.You seem to bring a particular worldview to the knife-wielder case in question. I didn't get anything in your many posts that suggested you wondered for even a minute if the shooter had alternatives. Maybe Makhia was about to kill someone, but I wouldn't mind some factfinding and context before I assume this was a legit use of force. (full disclosure -- have not seen video, will do so asap) ETA -- the video released has had the shooting itself edited out, because the local affiliate judged it too graphic to show on tv. You hear shots, but it's blacked out. ETA (later) --.found an unedited slomo version of the bodycam footage. Yes, sadly, it looks like she was attacking with a knife and was mid-swing in the process of plunging it into the pink-clad girl who was shoved up against a car. It does appear the knife would have gone in, without an immediate use of force. It's horrific to watch. And speaks to a fairly high level of rage... it's incredible, there's a cop right there, and she keeps right on, shifting her attack from one girl to the other. From a different angle....https://twitter.com/detranmusic/status/1384943308556980228?s=12Deal with the issue at hand, Larry, instead of trying to deflect and change the subject, which is another favorite tool you employ.The Columbus cop. Based on the video, which is what most of these public cases are becoming based upon, did that cop do the right thing?
Quote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:52:29 PMYes. Here's my updated post...with a second edit... Quote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:11:55 PMQuote from: UNO on April 21, 2021, 02:06:35 PMLarry dodges real conversation. Anything that conflicts with his world view is verboten. Achtung, motherfucker.You seem to bring a particular worldview to the knife-wielder case in question. I didn't get anything in your many posts that suggested you wondered for even a minute if the shooter had alternatives. Maybe Makhia was about to kill someone, but I wouldn't mind some factfinding and context before I assume this was a legit use of force. (full disclosure -- have not seen video, will do so asap) ETA -- the video released has had the shooting itself edited out, because the local affiliate judged it too graphic to show on tv. You hear shots, but it's blacked out. ETA (later) --.found an unedited slomo version of the bodycam footage. Yes, sadly, it looks like she was attacking with a knife and was mid-swing in the process of plunging it into the pink-clad girl who was shoved up against a car. It does appear the knife would have gone in, without an immediate use of force. It's horrific to watch. And speaks to a fairly high level of rage... it's incredible, there's a cop right there, and she keeps right on, shifting her attack from one girl to the other. From a different angle....https://twitter.com/detranmusic/status/1384943308556980228?s=12
Yes. Here's my updated post...with a second edit... Quote from: barton on April 21, 2021, 03:11:55 PMQuote from: UNO on April 21, 2021, 02:06:35 PMLarry dodges real conversation. Anything that conflicts with his world view is verboten. Achtung, motherfucker.You seem to bring a particular worldview to the knife-wielder case in question. I didn't get anything in your many posts that suggested you wondered for even a minute if the shooter had alternatives. Maybe Makhia was about to kill someone, but I wouldn't mind some factfinding and context before I assume this was a legit use of force. (full disclosure -- have not seen video, will do so asap) ETA -- the video released has had the shooting itself edited out, because the local affiliate judged it too graphic to show on tv. You hear shots, but it's blacked out. ETA (later) --.found an unedited slomo version of the bodycam footage. Yes, sadly, it looks like she was attacking with a knife and was mid-swing in the process of plunging it into the pink-clad girl who was shoved up against a car. It does appear the knife would have gone in, without an immediate use of force. It's horrific to watch. And speaks to a fairly high level of rage... it's incredible, there's a cop right there, and she keeps right on, shifting her attack from one girl to the other.
Quote from: UNO on April 21, 2021, 02:06:35 PMLarry dodges real conversation. Anything that conflicts with his world view is verboten. Achtung, motherfucker.You seem to bring a particular worldview to the knife-wielder case in question. I didn't get anything in your many posts that suggested you wondered for even a minute if the shooter had alternatives. Maybe Makhia was about to kill someone, but I wouldn't mind some factfinding and context before I assume this was a legit use of force. (full disclosure -- have not seen video, will do so asap) ETA -- the video released has had the shooting itself edited out, because the local affiliate judged it too graphic to show on tv. You hear shots, but it's blacked out. ETA (later) --.found an unedited slomo version of the bodycam footage. Yes, sadly, it looks like she was attacking with a knife and was mid-swing in the process of plunging it into the pink-clad girl who was shoved up against a car. It does appear the knife would have gone in, without an immediate use of force. It's horrific to watch. And speaks to a fairly high level of rage... it's incredible, there's a cop right there, and she keeps right on, shifting her attack from one girl to the other.
Larry dodges real conversation. Anything that conflicts with his world view is verboten. Achtung, motherfucker.
Quote from: UNO on April 21, 2021, 12:38:59 PMBut what about Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, and the Northern Marianas?Want to add 10 more Senators in Congress, and at least 10 more in the House?......Granting Senators to DC is too much, IMO.Puerto Rico should be given statehood. This is pretty clear, especially since both major party's platforms have called for it (though the GOP currently only calls for a referendum at this point).USVI, Guam, and the Marianas have not indicated a desire for statehood. American Samoa's residents are not equivalent - they are not American citizens and their government has indicated that they have no desire to change status.But even if they were all admitted to the Union, it would not mean more members of the House, necessarily, let alone 10 of them. It would result in reapportionment of the 435 we already have.DC is larger in population than Wyoming and Vermont. It would likely get one Representative, but not disrupt the whole very much.Puerto Rico's population is larger than 20 states! They'd likely end up with 4 Representatives and 6 EVs.That you don't want to give DC voters the right to form a state is hardly shocking.How do you feel about the US VI?! Or Puerto Rico?
But what about Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, and the Northern Marianas?Want to add 10 more Senators in Congress, and at least 10 more in the House?......Granting Senators to DC is too much, IMO.
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