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Very

6 (50%)

Some

4 (33.3%)

Not sure

0 (0%)

Not really

1 (8.3%)

Not in the slightest

1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[josh]

http://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/2021/9/14/22650733/us-covid-19-hospitals-full-texas-alabama

Ward thinks it is because of the asymptomatic and low symptom folks.

So what if it is the ICU beds which are full.

[Hairy Lime]

You are changing the perspective when you argue that COVID not being confined to the workplace makes mandating vaccines not comparable to mandating goggles. Eye injuries are not confined to the workplace either. But in both instances the work setting enhances the possibility of injury. OSHA can mandate reasonable rules to prevent or limit the risk.

You mention masks mandates, social distancing and the like,.apparently approving of OSHA being able to mandate those, and they are less intrusive options. But OSHA is not limited to the least intrusive option. They have the right to determine the most effective method to protect the health and safety of the workers. Given the science, it is certainly reasonable for OSHA to determine that vaccines are the best way to protect workers from getting COVID in the workplace.

Which Science? The Science the government relied on to say Vaccinated people no longer needed to wear masks? The Science that said vaccinations would crush Covid? Now we are told vaccinated people can still get Covid and can be infectious.

Ghe best science available to them at the time, in their judgment.

the reason you can shift a worker to an area where goggles are not required has nothing to do with OSHA protecting their right to object. Employers can fire employees who refuse to use protective equipment. They just have.the option to move them if they want, because they have jobs where eye protection is not necessary. That such a position does not really exist with a communicable disease does not limit OSHA's ability to regulate work place safety rules.

Except that a Vaxx Mandate bypasses the employer,  the employee, and the State they work in.
Where does the Executive Branch  get the power to override personal choice to get vaccinated or not?
It is not in the Constitution nor has it been legislated by
Congress.

It has been legislated by Congress, in creating OSHA and giving it regulatory power. And since OSHA is a Constitutionally valid law within the legislatures authority, it is in the Constitution as well. All OSHA regulations bypass the employer, the employee and the State. No one asks about personal choice with goggles, or masks, or respirators. No one asks Three Fingers Brown if he prefers his punch press with or without guards. OSHA just regulates for the safety of employees.

[REDSTATEWARD]

You are changing the perspective when you argue that COVID not being confined to the workplace makes mandating vaccines not comparable to mandating goggles. Eye injuries are not confined to the workplace either. But in both instances the work setting enhances the possibility of injury. OSHA can mandate reasonable rules to prevent or limit the risk.

You mention masks mandates, social distancing and the like,.apparently approving of OSHA being able to mandate those, and they are less intrusive options. But OSHA is not limited to the least intrusive option. They have the right to determine the most effective method to protect the health and safety of the workers. Given the science, it is certainly reasonable for OSHA to determine that vaccines are the best way to protect workers from getting COVID in the workplace.

Which Science? The Science the government relied on to say Vaccinated people no longer needed to wear masks? The Science that said vaccinations would crush Covid? Now we are told vaccinated people can still get Covid and can be infectious.

Ghe best science available to them at the time, in their judgment.

the reason you can shift a worker to an area where goggles are not required has nothing to do with OSHA protecting their right to object. Employers can fire employees who refuse to use protective equipment. They just have.the option to move them if they want, because they have jobs where eye protection is not necessary. That such a position does not really exist with a communicable disease does not limit OSHA's ability to regulate work place safety rules.

Except that a Vaxx Mandate bypasses the employer,  the employee, and the State they work in.
Where does the Executive Branch  get the power to override personal choice to get vaccinated or not?
It is not in the Constitution nor has it been legislated by
Congress.

It has been legislated by Congress, in creating OSHA and giving it regulatory power. And since OSHA is a Constitutionally valid law within the legislatures authority, it is in the Constitution as well. All OSHA regulations bypass the employer, the employee and the State. No one asks about personal choice with goggles, or masks, or respirators. No one asks Three Fingers Brown if he prefers his punch press with or without guards. OSHA just regulates for the safety of employees.

Your viewpoint of the legality of the sought after mandate is a minority one.
And your description of the OSHA process is wrong.
This whole process started by Biden is political.
It will end up decided by the courts and lawyers which is a good thing.
The politicians, scientists, and media have all failed us.

[facilitatorn]

Red may have a point in that fraudulent illegal activist judges appointed thanks to Bush McConnell and trump are working to rewrite operative law to run counter to the constitution legislation the will of the people and good sense.

They may be ratfucking insane and thoroughly evil enough to overturn public health mandates.

It is not that they are necessarily stupid. It is just clear they do not give a fuck about the lives of people. You cannot care about people and be part of any American conservative movement. That ship has sailed. 

Those Christian white nationalist judges are a major tumor in the republican cancer on this country. The are a tumor that must be surgically removed ASAP.

[facilitatorn]

Nice Deej.

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/9/15/2052397/-Tax-the-Rich-It-s-Productive-Patriotic-Popular

[FlyingVProd]

My family has been in the USA for a long time, and people in my family tree helped to build the Spirit of Saint Louis plane that was the first plane to fly from New York to Paris, France. My Great Grandfather was Chief of Police of Denver, Colorado. And my Mother had an Uncle who was just a secret unknown guy who worked for the United States Government, and he went to Spain 3 times per year. His favorite ally was Spain.

And George W. Bush is close with Spain.

Never underestimate Spain.

Spain is a great ally.

Salute,

Tony V.

[FlyingVProd]

My Grandmother worked at the first and original McDonald's in San Bernardino, we have been a part of America for a long time, and I am telling you that Spain is a great ally.

Salute,

Tony V.

[Hairy Lime]

My family has been in the USA for a long time, and people in my family tree helped to build the Spirit of Saint Louis plane that was the first plane to fly from New York to Paris, France. My Great Grandfather was Chief of Police of Denver, Colorado. And my Mother had an Uncle who was just a secret unknown guy who worked for the United States Government, and he went to Spain 3 times per year. His favorite ally was Spain.

And George W. Bush is close with Spain.

Never underestimate Spain.

Spain is a great ally.

Salute,

Tony V.

They say Spain is pretty, though I've never been. And Daniel says it's the best place that he's ever seen.

[Hairy Lime]

My Grandmother worked at the first and original McDonald's in San Bernardino, we have been a part of America for a long time, and I am telling you that Spain is a great ally.

Salute,

Tony V.

Supposedly i have an ancestor who died at the hands of the Sioux in Civil War era Minnesota.  So my family has been here a long time too. And I am telling you Spain is even more inconsequential than Australia.  And that takes some doing.

[kiidcarter8]

MSNBC enjoying their Newsom party tonight-    heh - as if there is anything to celebrate.

Dems cheated , right Hans?

That you needed Biden to appear - and that there even WAS  a recall - is embarrassing to your party

But  no - it wasn't really ever in doubt. 

And you don't consider that embarrassing to your party? That they would waste state resources a day everyone's time on a predetermined outcome? Pwning the Libs is a poor substitute for a vision for governing people.

I don't think anything was wasted.  Message clearly sent to Newsom - be ducking better

i think a message was sent, Kid.

I just don't think it was either the message or the recipient that you had in mind.

$24 million in Newsom's campaign account already for the next election. Democratic party pumped up and ready to go. And not a competent Republican candidate in sight.

Right

We don't expect to win that one either

If they keep Newsom they are doing the state dirty

[facilitatorn]

I could not hear what you were trying to say Kid

It sounds like you are choking out your words through mud or shit or something.

[facilitatorn]

MSNBC enjoying their Newsom party tonight-    heh - as if there is anything to celebrate.

Dems cheated , right Hans?

That you needed Biden to appear - and that there even WAS  a recall - is embarrassing to your party

But  no - it wasn't really ever in doubt. 

And you don't consider that embarrassing to your party? That they would waste state resources a day everyone's time on a predetermined outcome? Pwning the Libs is a poor substitute for a vision for governing people.

I don't think anything was wasted.  Message clearly sent to Newsom - be ducking better

i think a message was sent, Kid.

I just don't think it was either the message or the recipient that you had in mind.

$24 million in Newsom's campaign account already for the next election. Democratic party pumped up and ready to go. And not a competent Republican candidate in sight.

As California goes so goes the nation. We are doing our penance for sending on Nixon and Reagan. Never again.

Good news that it helps raise money and volunteers for opponents of Nunes Issa and McCarthy.

[Holly Martins]

My Grandmother worked at the first and original McDonald's in San Bernardino, we have been a part of America for a long time, and I am telling you that Spain is a great ally.

Salute,

Tony V.

Supposedly i have an ancestor who died at the hands of the Sioux in Civil War era Minnesota.  So my family has been here a long time too. And I am telling you Spain is even more inconsequential than Australia.  And that takes some doing.

Santee uprising?  That's well known history out here,  where many of the Sioux were transported after the uprising was crushed, to reservations.   My Swede ancestors came around 1900, so they missed all the fun. 

The Spanish are very inquisitive.  No one expects that.

[Holly Martins]

It will end up decided by the courts and lawyers which is a good thing.
The politicians, scientists, and media have all failed us.

Scientists,  when media and politicians do not accurately and responsibly report scientific findings,  fail to be heard in an undistorted way.   Actual scientists are why we don't have millions of dead -- they didn't fail us.   And their messaging has been consistent.  Masks catch a large percent of aerosols bearing virus particles.   Vaccines provide sufficient immunity to cut serious illness tenfold or more.   Social distance and ventilation reduce greatly the odds of breathing in viruses.   Science has been clear and it has never said any measure would be 100% protection.  Multiple measures gets us to maybe 90 percent,  which is very good with an airborne vector.   

[facilitatorn]

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/9/15/2052427/--Exit-TX-Republicans-extreme-politics-send-Texas-based-tech-companies-into-crisis-mode