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Very

6 (50%)

Some

4 (33.3%)

Not sure

0 (0%)

Not really

1 (8.3%)

Not in the slightest

1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[Holly Martins]

If Roe vs Wade is over-turned, then it becomes a state battle I guess, some states say they will ban abortions as soon as Roe vs Wade is over-turned, and California is saying that they will be a sanctuary for people who want to have abortions and that people from all over the USA will be able to come to California for free abortions.

Rich and middle class people at least. Teens with good support systems. But if you are rural poor in South Texas or a teen who has family issues you are fucked again. I oppose abortion but I oppose even more it being a right for the well to do only.

I oppose inflation. And I certainly oppose it for the poor and unfortunate. The well to do will survive.

Are there those who favor inflation?   I don't recall it ever being a hot button issue.  Your analogy seems more like a nonsequitur.

[Holly Martins]

If Roe vs Wade is over-turned, then it becomes a state battle I guess, some states say they will ban abortions as soon as Roe vs Wade is over-turned, and California is saying that they will be a sanctuary for people who want to have abortions and that people from all over the USA will be able to come to California for free abortions.

Rich and middle class people at least. Teens with good support systems. But if you are rural poor in South Texas or a teen who has family issues you are fucked again. I oppose abortion but I oppose even more it being a right for the well to do only.

Pretty much where me and the missus stand.  She, because of her Catholic beliefs, and me from what some pundit once called "epistemological humility."  That latter is what drove some on the Old Left, fifties/sixties, to oppose abortion, the idea that the fetus might be a citizen with all relevant rights.  Eventually that colllided with a feminist perspective.  I support the concept that it comes down to personal choice.

How convenient.
So much for following the science.

Another nonsequitur.  You're on a roll.

Try expressing an opinion, telling us why you have that opinion, and what supports it.  Instead of opaque barbs that land in the bushes.

[facilitatorn]

The science states a fetus is a bodypart of a woman. The fate of the fetus is the sole decision of the woman while she carries it. The science is settled.

Superstition does not like it and so tries to present the science as something else.

For those trying to force women into decisions one way or another about what to do with their bodies, it will not end well for you.

[facilitatorn]

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/12/10/2068691/-Torrance-cop-scandal-over-racist-texts-mere-tip-of-bigotry-iceberg-within-nation-s-law-enforcement

Problem. Big problem.

[REDSTATEWARD]

If Roe vs Wade is over-turned, then it becomes a state battle I guess, some states say they will ban abortions as soon as Roe vs Wade is over-turned, and California is saying that they will be a sanctuary for people who want to have abortions and that people from all over the USA will be able to come to California for free abortions.

Rich and middle class people at least. Teens with good support systems. But if you are rural poor in South Texas or a teen who has family issues you are fucked again. I oppose abortion but I oppose even more it being a right for the well to do only.

Pretty much where me and the missus stand.  She, because of her Catholic beliefs, and me from what some pundit once called "epistemological humility."  That latter is what drove some on the Old Left, fifties/sixties, to oppose abortion, the idea that the fetus might be a citizen with all relevant rights.  Eventually that colllided with a feminist perspective.  I support the concept that it comes down to personal choice.

How convenient.
So much for following the science.

Another nonsequitur.  You're on a roll.

Try expressing an opinion, telling us why you have that opinion, and what supports it.  Instead of opaque barbs that land in the bushes.

Ah.  Science no longer your friend when it messes up your moral compass.

[LarryBnDC]

If Roe vs Wade is over-turned, then it becomes a state battle I guess, some states say they will ban abortions as soon as Roe vs Wade is over-turned, and California is saying that they will be a sanctuary for people who want to have abortions and that people from all over the USA will be able to come to California for free abortions.

Rich and middle class people at least. Teens with good support systems. But if you are rural poor in South Texas or a teen who has family issues you are fucked again. I oppose abortion but I oppose even more it being a right for the well to do only.

Pretty much where me and the missus stand.  She, because of her Catholic beliefs, and me from what some pundit once called "epistemological humility."  That latter is what drove some on the Old Left, fifties/sixties, to oppose abortion, the idea that the fetus might be a citizen with all relevant rights.  Eventually that colllided with a feminist perspective.  I support the concept that it comes down to personal choice.

How convenient.
So much for following the science.

Another nonsequitur.  You're on a roll.

Try expressing an opinion, telling us why you have that opinion, and what supports it.  Instead of opaque barbs that land in the bushes.

Ah.  Science no longer your friend when it messes up your moral compass.

A fucked up moral compass is a man claiming dominion over a womans body.

[josh]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/u-s-government-deficit-down-17-from-same-period-a-year-ago

Good news!

[Holly Martins]

If Roe vs Wade is over-turned, then it becomes a state battle I guess, some states say they will ban abortions as soon as Roe vs Wade is over-turned, and California is saying that they will be a sanctuary for people who want to have abortions and that people from all over the USA will be able to come to California for free abortions.

Rich and middle class people at least. Teens with good support systems. But if you are rural poor in South Texas or a teen who has family issues you are fucked again. I oppose abortion but I oppose even more it being a right for the well to do only.

Pretty much where me and the missus stand.  She, because of her Catholic beliefs, and me from what some pundit once called "epistemological humility."  That latter is what drove some on the Old Left, fifties/sixties, to oppose abortion, the idea that the fetus might be a citizen with all relevant rights.  Eventually that colllided with a feminist perspective.  I support the concept that it comes down to personal choice.

How convenient.
So much for following the science.

Another nonsequitur.  You're on a roll.

Try expressing an opinion, telling us why you have that opinion, and what supports it.  Instead of opaque barbs that land in the bushes.

Ah.  Science no longer your friend when it messes up your moral compass.

Try expressing an opinion, telling us why you have that opinion, and what supports it. 

[Holly Martins]

Science has no metaphysical ruling on all this.  As FAC said, the fetus is biologically part of a womans body until it is viable.  If your religion views the fetus as having a soul, a consciousness, a destiny in the world, then dont have an abortion and help other pregnant women if they are considering adoption or other options and vigorously support sex education and free contraception and support to young women in coercive relationships, giving these supports to those most needy so that there will be fewer abortions and fewer unwanted babies. How hard is that to figure out?

[REDSTATEWARD]

Science has no metaphysical ruling on all this.  As FAC said, the fetus is biologically part of a womans body until it is viable.  If your religion views the fetus as having a soul, a consciousness, a destiny in the world, then dont have an abortion and help other pregnant women if they are considering adoption or other options and vigorously support sex education and free contraception and support to young women in coercive relationships, giving these supports to those most needy so that there will be fewer abortions and fewer unwanted babies. How hard is that to figure out?

You seem to be confused.
Science does not make moral decisions.
The Manhattan Project developed an Atomic Bomb.
It was left to the people to decide when, where or if it was used.
Science provides information on the viability of an unborn baby which is much different than it was 50 years ago when Roe was decided.
It should be left to the people to decide what to do with that information.
Roe was bad law.
We can do much better.

[LarryBnDC]

Science has no metaphysical ruling on all this.  As FAC said, the fetus is biologically part of a womans body until it is viable.  If your religion views the fetus as having a soul, a consciousness, a destiny in the world, then dont have an abortion and help other pregnant women if they are considering adoption or other options and vigorously support sex education and free contraception and support to young women in coercive relationships, giving these supports to those most needy so that there will be fewer abortions and fewer unwanted babies. How hard is that to figure out?

You seem to be confused.
Science does not make moral decisions.
The Manhattan Project developed an Atomic Bomb.
It was left to the people to decide when, where or if it was used.
Science provides information on the viability of an unborn baby which is much different than it was 50 years ago when Roe was decided.
It should be left to the people to decide what to do with that information.
Roe was bad law.
We can do much better.

Fuck off.

When you can drop a baby you can make a Law about it.

Texas Law is a bad precedent because it takes away a constitutional right.

[facilitatorn]

Red might be on to something. We can nationalize the New York or California regulatory framework for reproductive health issues. That would be much better.

[bankshot1]

Its entirely likely that at some time in the future a fertilized egg in the right test tube and right procedures might grow into a human. So Red's logic would seem to say that conception=viability and that "the people" have the right to dictate the future of that test tube, err the 2-cell baby human.

But I'm not sure why "the people" without standing to that test tube has a greater say than the owner of the egg who was gifted a sperm.

Because of their superior morality?

Doubtful.

Or they know what God's view is on the matter?

Double doubtful.

We've seen their indifference to life outside the womb, and the amorality of these play for pay pro-life religious hypocrites.

But Red is right, we can do better.

The US should protect the rights of all women to make choices about their reproductive rights, and not subject them to religious zealots and bigots empowered only by their corruption and a state line.

[facilitatorn]

Its entirely likely that at some time in the future a fertilized egg in the right test tube and right procedures might grow into a human. So Red's logic would seem to say that conception=viability and that "the people" have the right to dictate the future of that test tube, err the 2-cell baby human.

At that point, viability and the existence of the soul will all be determined and managed by AI. The law and beliefs of their meat sacks will have very little influence on the matter at all.

[REDSTATEWARD]

If Roe vs Wade is over-turned, then it becomes a state battle I guess, some states say they will ban abortions as soon as Roe vs Wade is over-turned, and California is saying that they will be a sanctuary for people who want to have abortions and that people from all over the USA will be able to come to California for free abortions.

Rich and middle class people at least. Teens with good support systems. But if you are rural poor in South Texas or a teen who has family issues you are fucked again. I oppose abortion but I oppose even more it being a right for the well to do only.

I oppose inflation. And I certainly oppose it for the poor and unfortunate. The well to do will survive.

Are there those who favor inflation?   I don't recall it ever being a hot button issue.  Your analogy seems more like a nonsequitur.

You seem pretty immune to following a discussion.