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Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[Holly Martins]

Following Ukraine's having hired a top scientist from Latveria, this news is not unexpected:

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-soldiers-monsters-secret-experiments-biolabs-us-1725908

War:

Step one: kill the truth.
Step two: dehumanize the enemy

[Holly Martins]

In less than surprising news, the anti-law GOP in Arizona censured one of their state's officials for standing up to Donald Trump and being honest at the Jan 6 Committee hearings:

"No longer a Republican in good standing," said the GOP state committee.

GOP is getting more Orban-ized by the day.  As Tucker has made clear, Hungary is the model soft dictatorship of "Christian" nativism.  GOP is studying how clever Orban manages to give it all the outward appearance of a democracy.

[Holly Martins]

Same sex marriage, interracial marriage, contraception are already federally protected rights and will never be overturned.

Abortion, with some limits, was federally protected.   

[josh]

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/07/19/americas-already-dreadful-maternal-mortality-rate-looks-set-to-rise

"Right to life" stops at birth

[josh]

[LarryBnDC]

You would have to be pretty stupid to read Thomas opinion, and hear speeches by Alito, and not be concerned ed for marriage equality.

Alito made no speeches or you would have cited them.

Federalist Society, November of 2020. But you knew that.

What he said was in his Dobbs majority opinion.
Rights not explicitly protected by the Constitution are  now in the hands of state legislatures and will rely much more heavily in the future on local democracy. Social movements, campaigns and elections, all at the state level, will become the main battleground of American rights.

]QED

Dobbs rejects substantive due process in creating rights by judges.
Thomas wants to review some previous rulings to bring them into line with Dobbs.
No one else on the Court thinks that step is necessary.

No one but you thinks Thomas is alone in that opinion. We have an activist movement conservative Court and there is no reason why having taken an axe to Roe, with all of its prior rejected challenges and social order built around it, they would not do the same to Gay marriage. "Social movements, campaigns and elections, all at the state level, will become the main battleground of American rights" is directly applicable to marriage equality.

Thomas is alone in his opinion. You must not have read the Dobbs decision which also said the abortion ruling would not affect same sex marriage, interracial marriage, or contraception.
Thomas, Alito, Scalia and Roberts dissented in Oberkfell arguing the Majority went too far using substantive due process and the 14th Amendment.
Now all 50 states regulate and allow same sex marriage.
As a practical matter any action seeking to federally ban it is a non starter.  Same Sex Marriage is now part of our culture, albeit a small one. 
There is no scenario imaginable where politicians would ever seek to change that.

If you think "Social movements, campaigns and elections, all at the state level, will become the main battleground of American rights" does not directly implicate Obergefell you are either a special kind of stupid, bottomless in you naivety or intellectually dishonest - although in your case all three is a distinct possibility.  And the issue is not federal but State by State. If you do not think the legislature in Oklahoma would ban marriage equality and try to deny marriage rights to guys married outside of Oklahoma, you are an idiot. I would bet on it becoming an immediate issue here, despite being a purple state, due to the way state legislative districts are drawn and the current bent of the Repo party.

Just how would a case involving a federal ban on same sex marriage get to SCOTUS?
Alito gave several reasons why it will not in his Dobbs opinion.

What sharply distinguishes the abortion right from the rights recognized in the cases on which Roe and Casey rely is something that both those decision acknowledged Abortion destroys what those decisions call potential life and what the law at issue in this case regards as the life of an unborn human being None of the other decisions cited by Roe and Casey involved the critical moral question posed by abortion. They are therefore inapposite. They do not support the right to obtain an abortion, and by the same token, our conclusion that the Constitution does not confer such a right does not undermine them in any way.

Alito added another twist. When the Court determines whether to overturn precedent one factor to consider is whether very concrete reliance interests are at stake. In other words, how much has a person ordered their life and affairs around existing law? He highlights involving property and contract rights as particularly concrete.

If a contract is concrete, then that is doubly true for marriage. It represents two people ordering their lives, their property, and their finances around the existence of the legally recognized marriage relationship. This is profoundly different from abortion, which even Planned Parenthood v. Casey recognized as a generally unplanned activity. As the Casey Court stated, [R]eproductive planning could take virtually immediate account of any sudden restoration of state authority to ban abortions.

By contrast, there is no way to take virtually immediate account of a sudden, state ordered involuntary dissolution of a marriage. Such a ruling would instantly introduce personal and legal chaos into families across the nation.

It is clear you have not done much reading of the Alito opinion, if any at all.

Alito is a proven liar.

Fuck that guy and his seventeenth century bullshit

[LarryBnDC]

Serious question for you, Red. Without snark (I'm trying) Are you confident that if a state decides to ban gay marriage, if and when that state statue is brought to the Supreme Court the Court won't grant cert or will hear the case and declare the law unconstitutional?

States can not ban same sex marriage. It is a Constitutionally protected right affirmed in 2015 by SCOTUS.
It would take a reversal of that ruling before States could act.
Alito has foreshadowed how SCOTUS would respond to any legal attempt to reverse the marriage ruling.
It would refuse to hear it.

Not true

[LarryBnDC]

Erm, if you're following the chat, it points towards a Supreme disregard of the 9th amendment that would pave  a ten lane freeway to Shit Central.

It is bad for Americans it it does not center white people

[LarryBnDC]

I didn't say Alito's opinion was dicta.  I said his "foreshadowing" was dicta.  I know exactly what dicta is.   

The holding in Dobbs only concerns abortion.  And his statement that "nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion" holds no precedential value especially for those states inclined to make gay marriage illegal.   

Pretty narrow interpretation since Dobbs now establishes a clear road map, if you will, to examine future cases involving unenumerated rights.

Which is precisely the point everyone else here has been making. Gay marriage is not an enumerated right. Access to birth control is not an enumerated right. Interracial marriage is not an enumerated right. Gay sex is not an enumerated right. None of those is any more deeply rooted in our history or.tradition than Roe was. There is now a."clear road map" to eliminate or limit those rights, and the Democrats are moving to prevent that from happening.

You are really at sea  on this one.
I suggest you actually read the decision.
You might also be helped by researching Washington v. Glucksberg https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/521/702/
Happy reading.

Your chronic cranial rectal immersion is not my issue.

Obviously you are not interested in facts.
Abortion is deeply rooted in our history only because it was mostly or always OUTLAWED and certainly not a RIGHT.
Yet the court saw fit to protect abortion as a RIGHT in 1973.

Dobbs not only overturned that right it outlined a path to establishing future rights not written in the Constitution which is centered on the people, not judges.

The right to abortion is the right of self determination and as such is not open to the vote since the 13th and 14th.

If you have no control over your own body you are no longer a citizen but a subject.

[LarryBnDC]

In less than surprising news, the anti-law GOP in Arizona censured one of their state's officials for standing up to Donald Trump and being honest at the Jan 6 Committee hearings:

"No longer a Republican in good standing," said the GOP state committee.

GOP is getting more Orban-ized by the day.  As Tucker has made clear, Hungary is the model soft dictatorship of "Christian" nativism.  GOP is studying how clever Orban manages to give it all the outward appearance of a democracy.

Achtung, bitches...

[kidcarter8]

In less than surprising news, the anti-law GOP in Arizona censured one of their state's officials for standing up to Donald Trump and being honest at the Jan 6 Committee hearings:

cnn.com/2022/07/20/politics/rusty-bowers-censure-arizona-republican-party-jan-6/index.html

"No longer a Republican in good standing," said the GOP state committee.

THIS, Kid, is why I say you belong to an anti-law and order party. What the GOP has tried to do in Georgia is part of the same whole. The resistance to giving testimony to the Georgia grand jury. Etc.

Trump tried to overturn an election and your party still struggles with honesty about it.

I belong to the same party as Rusty Bowers.

But do you stand with Rusty Bowers or do you stand with those who censured him?

Republicans have free will and act on it.  Same as Dems.  I am not a politician.  Dont need to act one way or another or offer any opinion on this.

[Espnthree]

Same sex marriage, interracial marriage, contraception are already federally protected rights and will never be overturned.

Abortion, with some limits, was federally protected.

WAS being the operative word.
It was not entrenched in our culture , was not part of the Constitution,  had no legislative background, and, of course, resulted in the destruction of  a life or potential life.

[josh]

In less than surprising news, the anti-law GOP in Arizona censured one of their state's officials for standing up to Donald Trump and being honest at the Jan 6 Committee hearings:

cnn.com/2022/07/20/politics/rusty-bowers-censure-arizona-republican-party-jan-6/index.html

"No longer a Republican in good standing," said the GOP state committee.

THIS, Kid, is why I say you belong to an anti-law and order party. What the GOP has tried to do in Georgia is part of the same whole. The resistance to giving testimony to the Georgia grand jury. Etc.

Trump tried to overturn an election and your party still struggles with honesty about it.

I belong to the same party as Rusty Bowers.

But do you stand with Rusty Bowers or do you stand with those who censured him?

Republicans have free will and act on it.  Same as Dems.  I am not a politician.  Dont need to act one way or another or offer any opinion on this.

IOW, you stand with those who censure him, if only by refusing to stand up for him.

Kid, you seem to think that standing on the sidelines and refusing to take a side is viable.

It isn't.

When one party is pushing insurrection, to refuse to speak up is tantamount to endorsement.

[josh]

Same sex marriage, interracial marriage, contraception are already federally protected rights and will never be overturned.

Abortion, with some limits, was federally protected.

WAS being the operative word.
It was not entrenched in our culture , was not part of the Constitution,  had no legislative background, and, of course, resulted in the destruction of  a life or potential life.

Same sex marriage is no more entrenched in "our culture" than abortion was/is and perhaps less so. It is certainly no more a part of the Constitution, and had no useful legislative background. And the ant-same sex marriage folks argue that it results in the destruction of the American way.

[kidcarter8]

As Biden announced new executive orders to tackle climate change, a new Quinnipac University poll revealed that the presidents  approval rating has reached a new low at 31per cent. The poll also showed that 71per cent of Americans do not want him to run again in 2024, with only 40per cent of Democrats admitting they would like to see him as the presidential nominee.



https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-cancer-claim-shocks-twitter-users-either-biggest-bombshell-biggest-gaffe