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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 1880325 times)

REDSTATEWARD

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19605 on: August 27, 2019, 11:47:12 PM »

Americans’ View of the Current Economy Is the Highest in 19 Years
By Reade Pickert
August 27, 2019, 10:15 AM EDT
Bloomberg

U.S. consumer confidence declined in August by less than forecast as Americans’ assessment of current conditions climbed to the highest level in almost 19 years.   

Yeah!

You should have heard how upbeat the consumer confidence was in the summer of 1929!
what was it?

Quote
That was the season before autumn of 1929, but that's not important now.
(Sky high. People were sure that the expanding market would go on forever, etc.)
LOL!
It was Zero!  No one was buying anything!
Wages were low.
Did you get past fifth grade?

I'm wrong.

So are you.

During the summer of 1929, the country entered a mild recession, while the stock market continued to climb, hitting a peak in August.
I wasnt wrong. Consumer confidence in the summer of 1929 was zero. ( the opposite of what you maintained) The stock market ignored that.

Evidence to support your position that consumer confidence was zero?
Any history book.
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19606 on: August 27, 2019, 11:59:39 PM »

Americans’ View of the Current Economy Is the Highest in 19 Years
By Reade Pickert
August 27, 2019, 10:15 AM EDT
Bloomberg

U.S. consumer confidence declined in August by less than forecast as Americans’ assessment of current conditions climbed to the highest level in almost 19 years.   

Yeah!

You should have heard how upbeat the consumer confidence was in the summer of 1929!
what was it?

Quote
That was the season before autumn of 1929, but that's not important now.
(Sky high. People were sure that the expanding market would go on forever, etc.)
LOL!
It was Zero!  No one was buying anything!
Wages were low.
Did you get past fifth grade?

I'm wrong.

So are you.

During the summer of 1929, the country entered a mild recession, while the stock market continued to climb, hitting a peak in August.
I wasnt wrong. Consumer confidence in the summer of 1929 was zero. ( the opposite of what you maintained) The stock market ignored that.

Evidence to support your position that consumer confidence was zero?
Any history book.

Great, Ward.

Pick ONE.

Go ahead.

I don't even need you to pick a 5th grade book, despite your asinine taunt. A high school text will do fine. Go ahead! It must be easy, since you said any history book will have it.

Pick ONE and link the page or tell me the page.

Bet you can't!
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19607 on: August 28, 2019, 12:26:40 AM »

You're 0 for 2, so far, Ward.

One of them talks about wages growing, albeit much more slowly than the rich were getting richer.

The other talks about the popularity of Hoover: "As the summer of 1929 came to a close, Hoover remained a popular successor to Calvin “Silent Cal” Coolidge, and all signs pointed to a highly successful administration." Nary a mention of consumers not buying anything or "no one was buying anything." Wages were only low compared to the booming incomes of the rich - you know, kind of like today!

This one is pretty close to what you wanted it to say. So, 1 in 3 says it. "Any history textbook" would seem like an exaggeration. I am sure (a) that we are all surprised that you would do that and (b) that you will admit that perhaps your claim was bigger than reality.

Quote
As farmers’ incomes fell, they bought fewer goods and services, but the problem was larger. By the late 1920s Americans were buying less—mainly because of rising prices, stagnant wages, unbalanced distribution of income, and overbuying on credit in the preceding years. Production had also expanded much faster than wages, resulting in an ever-widening gap between the rich and the poor.

LIVING ON CREDIT Although many Americans appeared to be prosperous during the 1920s, in fact they were living beyond their means. They often bought goods on credit— an arrangement in which consumers agreed to buy now and pay later for purchases. This was often in the form of an installment plan (usually in monthly payments) that included interest charges.

By making credit easily available, businesses encouraged Americans to pile up a large consumer debt. Many
people then had trouble paying off their growing debts. Faced with debt, consumers cut back on spending.
...
This unequal distribution of income meant that most Americans could not participate fully in the economic advances of the 1920s. Many people did not have the money to purchase the flood of goods that factories produced. The prosperity of the era rested on a fragile foundation.

I'm equally sure the moon is made of green cheese.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

REDSTATEWARD

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19608 on: August 28, 2019, 12:30:14 AM »

Josh.
You are the one who  claims consumer confidence was “high” in 1929.
But you provide not a whit of proof.
A five second search on google turns on this gem fromBrittainica.com.

The fundamental cause of the Great Depression in the United States was a decline in spending (sometimes referred to as aggregate demand), which led to a decline in production as manufacturers and merchandisers noticed an unintended rise in inventories.
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19609 on: August 28, 2019, 03:03:24 AM »

Josh.
You are the one who  claims consumer confidence was “high” in 1929.
But you provide not a whit of proof.
A five second search on google turns on this gem fromBrittainica.com.

The fundamental cause of the Great Depression in the United States was a decline in spending (sometimes referred to as aggregate demand), which led to a decline in production as manufacturers and merchandisers noticed an unintended rise in inventories.


Your memory is amazingly short.

I already admitted I was wrong, remember?! I do that. You almost never do (and claim to never be wrong).

LOL!
It was Zero!  No one was buying anything!
Wages were low.
Did you get past fifth grade?

I'm wrong.

So are you.

During the summer of 1929, the country entered a mild recession, while the stock market continued to climb, hitting a peak in August.

I provided a quote from one history book which indicated that wages continued to rise. I gave another that talked about how Hoover was highly popular and nobody saw a reason that his presidency should not be successful.

You suggested that if I took 5th grade history I would know that nobody was buying anything. You haven't found any textbooks to support your position. I've found one high school textbook that does and two that don't, which is a long way from every 5th (or 10th) grade kid's knowing it.

You found an encyclopedia article. Oh boy. Except that even yours doesn't support your contention that "No one was buying anything!"

Consumer confidence was not high. I already granted that. But it also wasn't zero. And national confidence in Hoover was still high through the summer, until late August.

Quote
The economy started to shrink in August, months before the stock market crash in October. ... The economic activity from the Roaring Twenties reached its peak. After that, it started to contract. It was the true start of the Great Depression.
The Balance

or
Quote
The events of Black Thursday are normally defined to be the start of the stock market crash of 1929-1932, but the series of events leading to the crash started before that date. This article examines the causes of the 1929 stock market crash. While no consensus exists about its precise causes, the article will critique some arguments and support a preferred set of conclusions. It argues that one of the primary causes was the attempt by important people and the media to stop market speculators. A second probable cause was the great expansion of investment trusts, public utility holding companies, and the amount of margin buying, all of which fueled the purchase of public utility stocks, and drove up their prices. Public utilities, utility holding companies, and investment trusts were all highly levered using large amounts of debt and preferred stock. These factors seem to have set the stage for the triggering event. This sector was vulnerable to the arrival of bad news regarding utility regulation. In October 1929, the bad news arrived and utility stocks fell dramatically. After the utilities decreased in price, margin buyers had to sell and there was then panic selling of all stocks.
~Harold Bierman, Jr., Cornell University, on the Economic History Association's website
http://eh.net/encyclopedia/the-1929-stock-market-crash/

or
Quote
What Caused the Great Depression
1. Stock Market Crash of 1929 and bank failures destroyed most of America's liquid income and savings.
2. Americans stopped spending money. This accentuated the problem.
[size]
from American History: Observations & Assessments from Early Settlement to Today

In other words, the people stopped spending money after the crash, not before it.



You will never admit a mistake, but in this case you made two of them.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19610 on: August 28, 2019, 06:55:00 AM »

And that there would be no negative consequence

Allowing Putin to conduct assassinations in NATO countries with little consequence?  Yeah. What could possibly go wrong.

As I was saying...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/27/world/europe/berlin-murder-russia.html#click=https://t.co/tkNFWaxZj0

I would ask if the Trumpists here ever tire of being wrong but already all indications are they do not.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19611 on: August 28, 2019, 08:37:15 AM »

So we should cut off all ties to Russia?  Is that your stance?
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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19612 on: August 28, 2019, 08:44:45 AM »

DeeJ is correct.  Not worth anyone's time engaging with someone who is always right.   Let the Cato Institute parrot squawk.   

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bankshot1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19613 on: August 28, 2019, 10:19:23 AM »

While the Roaring 20's and its irrational exuberance laid the groundwork for what followed, I'm pretty sure that the market crash of '29, and bank failures that soon followed, were major factors behind the Great Depression.

Also the Smoot-Hawley tarriifs smothered international trade.

And it was all Obama's fault.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19614 on: August 28, 2019, 10:22:51 AM »


'A Death Sentence': Trump Reportedly Moving to Deport Kids With Cancer, HIV, and Other Deadly Illnesses
"This is a new low for Trump. The administration is now literally deporting kids with cancer."

from COMMONDREAMS.ORG

This needs to be further addressed.  Maddow grabbed it and ran last night by using HALF the reopoirt and leaving out that ICE is taking over the application process for families wishing to stay due to medical concerns.

Painted it as - GET OUT IN 33 DAYS - no further options - while this is simply not the case.  Sure did make Trump look bad though eh, Rache?

Josh?  What say you?
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LarryBnDC

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19615 on: August 28, 2019, 10:50:39 AM »


'A Death Sentence': Trump Reportedly Moving to Deport Kids With Cancer, HIV, and Other Deadly Illnesses
"This is a new low for Trump. The administration is now literally deporting kids with cancer."

from COMMONDREAMS.ORG

This needs to be further addressed.  Maddow grabbed it and ran last night by using HALF the reopoirt and leaving out that ICE is taking over the application process for families wishing to stay due to medical concerns.

Painted it as - GET OUT IN 33 DAYS - no further options - while this is simply not the case.  Sure did make Trump look bad though eh, Rache?

Josh?  What say you?

The fact it is an issue at all is a demonstration of the depravity of this administration. Trump’s entire approach to immigration is ethnic cleansing. Your support of these policies puts you in the same mindset of these fucking Nazis.
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If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.

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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19616 on: August 28, 2019, 11:40:24 AM »

So... you think there is a WHITENING of America going on?

You're kidding, right?
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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19617 on: August 28, 2019, 12:01:35 PM »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/27/bernie-sanders-media-democracy

No paywall, worth a read.  Bernie waxes eloquent....and specific on what needs to be done to maintain a healthy press.  The watchdog of democracy.  Even if he doesn't become POTUS (likely), I hope he continues to fight for these initiatives.



And, to briefly digress:  Boris is a fucking idiot with his "prorogation."    There should be a new version of "Survivor," where Boris, Donnie, Benjy, and Bolsie are dumped in the middle of a large scorched tract of cleared Amazon and see how long they can last.  The camera crew is not allowed to feed them or otherwise provide assistance.  The nearest creek will be full of leach from a big pile of mine tailings. 
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NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19618 on: August 28, 2019, 12:13:34 PM »

So... you think there is a WHITENING of America going on?

You're kidding, right?

It is 100% undeniable that this is the intent driving Trump's immigration policies.  And undeniable that this continues to be a big draw for Trump's supporters.

If the Trump Administration is failing in this (if), well, that's just one more area of failure.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #19619 on: August 28, 2019, 12:15:58 PM »

Sick and dying workers demand help after cleaning coal ash

https://apnews.com/a7c90c7577e74715b00a4e02d48afc96

Quote
And Greg Schwartz, a Jacobs’ subcontractor, testified his supervisor said masks weren’t allowed “because it looked bad.”

“They didn’t want people driving by and seeing people with masks. That was the answer I got,” Schwartz said.

Bock, at trial, denied the workers’ allegations that he ordered dust masks destroyed or discouraged their use.

The TVA is not a defendant and hasn’t commented on these personal injury cases, other than to say Jacobs was responsible for worker safety . With its reputation at stake, the agency stresses that coal ash is classified as “nonhazardous” by the EPA.”

Duke University geochemist Avner Vengosh, who is not involved in the litigation, tested ash from the Kingston spill and found high levels of radioactivity and toxic metals, including arsenic and mercury. In a statement about his 2009 peer-reviewed study, he warned that inhaling airborne particles could “have a severe health impact on local residents or workers.”

But the workers said Jacobs safety supervisors told them “you could eat a pound of it a day and it wouldn’t hurt you.”

Breathing, however, can be risky.


COAL:  CLEAN AND SAFE ENERGY!

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