Why do the words of a chronic pathological liar (10,000 plus and counting....) matter in this regard? Of course, Trump would deny that he wanted to gain from the transaction he set up, once it became known what he was up to. The conversation with Trump wasn't in the Sondy opener because it was of no value. The impeachment proceedings are about getting at the actual truth of what happened. Sondland's "speculation" that two plus two equals four has advanced the case. And shows that Pompeo, Perry, Giuliani, et al. were all complicit. The powder residue is there for anyone to see.