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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[Yankguy1]

Are you allowing people to answer as Kid?

[kiidcarter8]

Trump apparently saw Ukraine as some sort of enemy (as coincidentally did Putin).


Someone to be watched closely - a nation that needed help cleaning up dirt - YES

Still, Trump administration funded Ukraine's defense more fully than previous presidents.  The picture painted here that Trump cared not if Putin added Ukraine to his growing empire is simply false.

YG - you are back, rested, I guess.  Wednesday was not pretty for you - you seemed quite confused.  But back to take comfort in the masses of Elba.  I am thankful (ahead of the big holiday) sir that you are OK.

[josh]

So are they going to subpoena Rudy, Pompeo, Pence ...
And are they going to bring contempt and legal proceedings against the WH no-shows who have already been subpoenaed.  I assume this hasn't been decided yet.

Rudy was subpoenaed. Pompeo was subpoenaed for documents related to Ukraine which he did not produce on time; I can't tell if they were ultimately turned over. (They also had to produce a bunch related to Giuliani for a FOIA request, which they resisted and lost a court challenge about.  Those are due today.)

Traditionally, one requests/invites sitting Prez and Veep to testify. Unclear that a subpoena has force over their attendance. But the White House, too, was subpoenaed for documents. On Oct. 15, Pence refused, referring to the "self-proclaimed impeachment inquiry," with the whine that the House had not voted to have one.

From Wednesday (11/20/2019)

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) on Wednesday accused President Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo of a “concerted” effort to obstruct the House impeachment investigation and warned them it could be used as evidence to draft an article of impeachment.

“They do so at their own peril,” Schiff said at the conclusion of his opening remarks on the fourth day of open hearings in the House impeachment inquiry, noting that the third article of impeachment against Nixon accused him of refusing to obey subpoenas from Congress.

In issuing his warning, Schiff seized on the opening statement of Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union testifying in the impeachment inquiry on Wednesday. Sondland said the State Department and White House did not provide him with phone records, emails or other documents that could have helped him reconstruct his memory of the events at the center of the investigation into the administration’s dealings with Ukraine.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/471260-schiff-accuses-trump-pompeo-of-concerted-effort-to-obstruct-impeachment

[josh]

Are you allowing people to answer as Kid?

Is that to me?

[josh]

[NeedsAdjustments]

Someone to be watched closely - a nation that needed help cleaning up dirt -

I know you will keep repeating this despite the evidence otherwise. But I’ll keep repeating the facts:

We have the unique experience of having listened in on (basically) two calls Trump has had with Ukraine’s President. In both of those calls he fails to mention corruption Once. Not once. Despite the fact that his handlers had the talking point prepared for him before the call. He ignored it.

The reasons for Trump to lie about his concerns about Ukraine are clear. Your insistence on repeating the lie despite having no evidence to support it can only be taken as yet another measure of your slavish devotion to the man.

Racism goes far with you, it seems.

Someone to be watched
Still, Trump administration funded Ukraine's defense more fully than previous presidents.  The picture painted here that Trump cared not if Putin added Ukraine to his growing empire is simply false.

Another dumb talking point repeated mindlessly by kiidcarter8.

Sure, Trump has funded Ukraine now, after he first withheld them and did everything he could to use the funds provided by bipartisan agreement in Congress for his personal political ends.

As for those Javelin missiles so strange that Trump only agreed to that sale after Ukraine stopped cooperating with the Mueller investigation, when we know Rudy was in the country “negotiating “ with government representatives.  Total coincidence I’m sure.

And even then, the sale was made under stipulation that they be stored hundreds of miles from the front, making them useless in the fight against Russia.

So it’s false to say Trump does not care about the territorial integrity of Ukraine? Sorry, given where we are right now that’s on you to prove.

[NeedsAdjustments]

President Trump won the 2016 election by accepting clandestine foreign help. He was caught trying to win the 2020 election by extorting clandestine foreign help. If unchecked, he will do it again. He's likely doing it right now.. - David Frum

[Yankguy1]

Trump apparently saw Ukraine as some sort of enemy (as coincidentally did Putin).


Someone to be watched closely - a nation that needed help cleaning up dirt - YES

Still, Trump administration funded Ukraine's defense more fully than previous presidents.  The picture painted here that Trump cared not if Putin added Ukraine to his growing empire is simply false.

YG - you are back, rested, I guess.  Wednesday was not pretty for you - you seemed quite confused.  But back to take comfort in the masses of Elba.  I am thankful (ahead of the big holiday) sir that you are OK.

You even seem stupid when you're being smarmy. A remarkable accomplishment. The only thing "confusing" me is how you get dumber each day. You'd think there'd be a bottom.

[barton]

And even then, the sale was made under stipulation that they be stored hundreds of miles from the front, making them useless in the fight against Russia.   

The Javelin sale was pretty weird.  They would certainly, as tank killers, increase the political and human cost to Putin if he escalated his ground war.  But only if they are deployed and ready.   Weapons of this type don't really function well as "symbolic."  If we actually wanted to send a message to Russia that Ukraine was strengthening, we would give schematics and consultants and dollars to Ukraine's already developed defense industry so they could make their own antitank missiles.

Stinger missiles in Afghanistan worked against Russia because they were actually deployed.   The cost of war, for Russia, became horrendous and they departed. 

[NeedsAdjustments]

Interesting:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/read-this-11

Don't assume that the closing of the House investigation means Bolton and Mulvaney and others will not be compelled to testify in the Senate hearing.

If Republicans are smart (and little in their defense in the House would lead us to believe that they are) this would be a major concern of theirs.

Bolton, particularly, could be devastating.

[bodiddley]

Military aid to Ukraine was one of the few bipartisan agreements, and Congress led the way and pushed for the military aid.  Trump didn't care about it and eventually held it up for a couple months while trying to extort campaign assistance.

I haven't heard this mentioned, but I wonder if those Summer months are important.  I doubt anybody manages to fight in Eastern Ukraine from say November to April.  Today, the high in Kyiv was 25F.  Going to have 4 days in a row without reaching 30.
And the same for Eastern Ukraine (with slightly lower lows).

Meaning military aid beginning in July would have been potentially useful this year.   Military aid released in mid-September likely wouldn't be.  I'd need more info about the military assistance and weaponry, and the state of the Donbass conflict this Summer.  But it does seem that the timing, assisted the pro-Russian separatists (and therefore Russia).

An avenue worth exploring ...

[kiidcarter8]

Racism goes far with you, it seems.


You really need to stop

[kiidcarter8]

Sure, Trump has funded Ukraine now, after he first withheld them and did everything he could to use the funds provided by bipartisan agreement in Congress for his personal political ends.


It was budgeted.  Trump's budget.

[facilitatorn]

Trump apparently saw Ukraine as some sort of enemy (as coincidentally did Putin).


Someone to be watched closely - a nation that needed help cleaning up dirt - YES

Still, Trump administration funded Ukraine's defense more fully than previous presidents.  The picture painted here that Trump cared not if Putin added Ukraine to his growing empire is simply false.

YG - you are back, rested, I guess.  Wednesday was not pretty for you - you seemed quite confused.  But back to take comfort in the masses of Elba.  I am thankful (ahead of the big holiday) sir that you are OK.

You even seem stupid when you're being smarmy. A remarkable accomplishment. The only thing "confusing" me is how you get dumber each day. You'd think there'd be a bottom.

Lead pipes. He gets all his water from lead pipes. All the symptoms are there, plain as day.

[NeedsAdjustments]

Racism goes far with you, it seems.


You really need to stop

When the shoe fits.