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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 2105599 times)

kidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25590 on: December 29, 2019, 10:22:22 AM »

250 to be re-trained for work in other industries

Thanks for telling us, Larry.  For this never happens in the US
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Yankguy1

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25591 on: December 29, 2019, 10:29:55 AM »

Thanks for telling us you're fine with Trump lying about bringing coal mining jobs back, Kid.
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kidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25592 on: December 29, 2019, 10:42:12 AM »

Bambi, you do no work at all except to misinform yourself. I think you are nearly the least qualified person to weigh in on the topic. Since your cowardice and ignorance will keep you where you are, I’m confident most immigrants we get will be solid upgrades over Red and Kid, who are moldy and glitchy and well past their sell by dates.

Send me some white feathers, I'll make artwork out of them.

Whose fault is it that the parents are now in immigration detention

We've "discussed" that with you before. It's a concept you struggle with, repeatedly.

The people who put them in detention are responsible for putting them in detention. They are the ones following illegal orders.

The people who gave them those illegal orders are responsible for the parents' being in the concentration camps. The buck stops with the criminal president in the White House, who repeatedly has told his administration officials to ride roughshod over the Constitution and the people it protects, as well as other laws and treaties.

The people who disrupted the governments of the countries these families fled are responsible for the parents' being in the camps. They would not have fled for their own or their children's lives, but for great duress.

And yes, the parents are responsible for their decisions, for trusting the United States to honor its own laws.

The federal government is responsible for allowing thousands of detained children to have been sexually molested or worse
. It is responsible for the failure to administer vaccines as any decent human beings would have. It is responsible for the lack of oversight such that children are dying under their watch or their hired guns' watch.

You should be ashamed, allowing yourself to post such an overblown statement

Where were you when women (children?) we're being assaulted in the caravans?  We're you heard then?

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kidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25593 on: December 29, 2019, 10:45:58 AM »

Happy Sunday to you all.  Go, Paxton Lynch
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25594 on: December 29, 2019, 10:57:27 AM »

Kidd doesn’t think there should be a higher standard for federal employees and contractors than for members of criminal cartels in other countries. This is the pretzel logic of the trump supporter who has pinned himself to whiteness uber alles.
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barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25595 on: December 29, 2019, 11:17:22 AM »

250 to be re-trained for work in other industries

Thanks for telling us, Larry.  For this never happens in the US

Kid and Hillary Clinton finally in agreement.   Mark it!
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facilitatorn

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25596 on: December 29, 2019, 11:22:47 AM »

Even Kid can’t help but favor a green new deal.

Something to think about whenever Red fills a post with empty bluster,

http://www.theweek.com/speedreads/886576/data-shows-voters-who-disapprove-trump-are-likely-support-democratic-opponent--even-dont-like-either
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Republicans will deliver only poverty and world war

barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25597 on: December 29, 2019, 11:27:56 AM »



You should be ashamed, allowing yourself to post such an overblown statement

Where were you when women (children?) we're being assaulted in the caravans?  We're you heard then?

1. The caravans were in Mexico, a sovereign state. 

2.  Factcheckers are your friend.   Any actual evidence that assaults of migrant women were happening?

Or is this from the same sources that brought you "agents of ISIS hidden in the caravan?"  -- later debunked as propaganda scare-mongering.
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oilcan

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25598 on: December 29, 2019, 11:58:16 AM »

Kid's post seemed like a textbook example of whataboutism.   And based on what?  Rumors in right wing papers?  What were we supposed to do even if the rumors of rape were true?  All this is only to keep Kid from actually answering what we should expect of our own government in its treatment of migrants on our own soil. 
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bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25599 on: December 29, 2019, 12:32:57 PM »

Migrants detained upon entering the US never officially entered the US and therefore the Constitution and most other rights and US laws generally don't apply to them.  At least that's how it was 30 years ago during the INS days and I doubt much has changed.  For the most part I believe their treatment is legally governed by treaties which are more nebulous, less well-known and less enforceable than ordinary US laws.  And administrative rules.  It's a very Grey Area kind of limbo they are in.
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Hairy Lime

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25600 on: December 29, 2019, 12:35:00 PM »

250 to be re-trained for work in other industries

Thanks for telling us, Larry.  For this never happens in the US
Heh. What a toady. Clinton was all in on retraining coal miners. That is why they voted for Trump. He promised something everyone knew he could not deliver.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 12:40:55 PM by Hairy Lime »
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Hairy Lime

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25601 on: December 29, 2019, 12:39:01 PM »

Bambi, you do no work at all except to misinform yourself. I think you are nearly the least qualified person to weigh in on the topic. Since your cowardice and ignorance will keep you where you are, I’m confident most immigrants we get will be solid upgrades over Red and Kid, who are moldy and glitchy and well past their sell by dates.

Send me some white feathers, I'll make artwork out of them.

Whose fault is it that the parents are now in immigration detention

We've "discussed" that with you before. It's a concept you struggle with, repeatedly.

The people who put them in detention are responsible for putting them in detention. They are the ones following illegal orders.

The people who gave them those illegal orders are responsible for the parents' being in the concentration camps. The buck stops with the criminal president in the White House, who repeatedly has told his administration officials to ride roughshod over the Constitution and the people it protects, as well as other laws and treaties.

The people who disrupted the governments of the countries these families fled are responsible for the parents' being in the camps. They would not have fled for their own or their children's lives, but for great duress.

And yes, the parents are responsible for their decisions, for trusting the United States to honor its own laws.

The federal government is responsible for allowing thousands of detained children to have been sexually molested or worse
. It is responsible for the failure to administer vaccines as any decent human beings would have. It is responsible for the lack of oversight such that children are dying under their watch or their hired guns' watch.

You should be ashamed, allowing yourself to post such an overblown statement
You should be ashamed, supporting a government that engages in that conduct.
Quote

Where were you when women (children?) we're being assaulted in the caravans?  We're you heard then?
An overblown, counter narrative driven Faux News diversion. But more to the point, my government was not an active agent in that conduct.
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25602 on: December 29, 2019, 12:53:08 PM »

Bambi, you do no work at all except to misinform yourself. I think you are nearly the least qualified person to weigh in on the topic. Since your cowardice and ignorance will keep you where you are, I’m confident most immigrants we get will be solid upgrades over Red and Kid, who are moldy and glitchy and well past their sell by dates.

Send me some white feathers, I'll make artwork out of them.

Whose fault is it that the parents are now in immigration detention

We've "discussed" that with you before. It's a concept you struggle with, repeatedly.

The people who put them in detention are responsible for putting them in detention. They are the ones following illegal orders.

The people who gave them those illegal orders are responsible for the parents' being in the concentration camps. The buck stops with the criminal president in the White House, who repeatedly has told his administration officials to ride roughshod over the Constitution and the people it protects, as well as other laws and treaties.

The people who disrupted the governments of the countries these families fled are responsible for the parents' being in the camps. They would not have fled for their own or their children's lives, but for great duress.

And yes, the parents are responsible for their decisions, for trusting the United States to honor its own laws.

The federal government is responsible for allowing thousands of detained children to have been sexually molested or worse
. It is responsible for the failure to administer vaccines as any decent human beings would have. It is responsible for the lack of oversight such that children are dying under their watch or their hired guns' watch.

You should be ashamed, allowing yourself to post such an overblown statement

Where were you when women (children?) we're being assaulted in the caravans?  We're you heard then?

Others have done a fine job pointing out a few of the flaws in your oh so clever comeback. Let's take your question a bit further, instead:

Where were you when our government and corporations were disrupting their countries, which helped to destabilize them, making it safer to flee than to live in?

Where were you when the Trump administration's "leaders" chose to demonize those caravans instead of helping them?

Where were you when Trump ordered the illegal "zero tolerance" policy? When he ordered the slowdown of the asylum process and sent troops instead of judges? When he forced children under 6 to "defend" themselves in immigration court?!



You claim that this is an overblown statement:
The federal government is responsible for allowing thousands of detained children to have been sexually molested or worse.

Care to explain HOW that is "overblown," Kid? I'm all ears.

Quote
All 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the federal government impose criminal liability on correctional facility staff who have sexual contact with people in their custody. These laws recognize that any sexual activity between detainees and detention facility staff, with or without the use of force, is unlawful because of the inherent power imbalance when people are in custody.
...
Although the employee pled guilty to criminal institutional sexual assault under Pennsylvania law, the defendants contend that they should not be liable for any constitutional violations. Their argument rests in part on their assessment that the sexual abuse was “consensual” and that they should be held to a different standard because the Berks Family Residential Center is an immigration detention facility rather than a jail or prison.

Are you:
a) denying that there have been thousands of sexual assaults on children being held in the camps and other facilities?
b) denying that the organizations that run them are responsible for their staff?
c) denying that the owners of the facilities are responsible?
or
d) denying that the federal government is legally and ethically responsible for "safe and sanitary" conditions?!

Quote
"Following arrest, the INS shall hold minors in facilities that are safe and sanitary and that are consistent with the INS's concern for the particular vulnerability of minors," the agreement reads. "Facilities will provide access to toilets and sinks, drinking water and food as appropriate, medical assistance if the minor is in need of emergency services, adequate temperature control and ventilation, adequate supervision to protect minors from others, and contact with family members who were arrested with the minor."
~1997 Flores Agreement

Obviously, the problem predates Trump's time in office, but he has made it worse. Lots worse.

Do tell me how my position is overblown, rape apologist.
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25603 on: December 29, 2019, 12:57:14 PM »

Migrants detained upon entering the US never officially entered the US and therefore the Constitution and most other rights and US laws generally don't apply to them.  At least that's how it was 30 years ago during the INS days and I doubt much has changed.  For the most part I believe their treatment is legally governed by treaties which are more nebulous, less well-known and less enforceable than ordinary US laws.  And administrative rules.  It's a very Grey Area kind of limbo they are in.

A lot less vague than you think. Especially asylum seekers, but all detained children are covered by more than those treaties and rules, as noted above.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

bodiddley

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #25604 on: December 29, 2019, 01:16:03 PM »

Looks like the  Flores Agreement just pertains to minors.
But there's still the question of enforcement.  And the ability to have access to know what's going on in these facilities.
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