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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[josh]

Bets?

Affirmative Action as a policy will be given to a long awaited death penalty now that Barrett is on SCOTUS.
And the biggest beneficiaries will be blacks.

I won't bet against you on the first part, but evidence from California already suggests you are dead wrong on the second, so I'll put $10 on that.

My proposed standard of measurement would be percentage of Blacks enrolled in top law schools 4 years after the change, assuming no change to reverse the decision by Congress/Biden before that.

[josh]

[facilitatorn]

I am considering dropping this site after the election.

Anybody interested in taking on the moderator position if/when I go?

If so, drop me a PM letting me know why you'd want that joy-inducing power. Thanks.

Brother, can we find a way to make it less of a chore and more of a pleasure for you?

[facilitatorn]

I’m waiting for trump’s great leadership to halt the sudden erosion in the markets. That might help him with the still undecided.

Mitch hands trump yet another October surprise by taking his ball and going home without relief legislation.

[josh]

I am considering dropping this site after the election.

Anybody interested in taking on the moderator position if/when I go?

If so, drop me a PM letting me know why you'd want that joy-inducing power. Thanks.

Brother, can we find a way to make it less of a chore and more of a pleasure for you?

I wouldn't be leaving because of the moderator aspect - yeah, cleaning up after the spambots is a nuisance, but having (a) discovered a fast way to clean a ton of them at once from a single place and (b) having decided that Business and Technology is just not worth cleaning every day has made it less tedious.

I'd leave because the signal to noise ratio is badly broken..

I'd like more discussions of substance and fewer meaningless quips. (From me, included, yes, and I am working to amend that.)

I would like, when somebody asks about mask research and it is provided for the asker to react to the research in some way other than kneejerk.

I would like when somebody asks about vaccines being covered before ACA for them to (a) consider doing their own research or (b) failing that, when their question is answered, thanking the answerer instead of just denying it without cause other than personal bias.

But I'd like more and deeper conversations on the stuff we are loosely in agreement on, too. We did a bit of that on Israel and the situation with the Palestinians. A small bit on UBI, but not enough.

I've invited folks to come in and they have decided to exit swiftly. It is not a place folks seem inclined to come at our current level of discord. I am sorry for the extent to which I have contributed to it, but doubt my ceasing would have much impact overall.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Bets?

Affirmative Action as a policy will be given to a long awaited death penalty now that Barrett is on SCOTUS.
And the biggest beneficiaries will be blacks.

I won't bet against you on the first part, but evidence from California already suggests you are dead wrong on the second, so I'll put $10 on that.

My proposed standard of measurement
would be percentage of Blacks enrolled in top law schools 4 years after the change, assuming no change to reverse the decision by Congress/Biden before that.

Which proves nothing.
Of course college minority enrollments might tick up, that’s the easy part.
But if you are serious about effects of Affirmative Action I suggest you read The Upswing co-written by a Harvard political science professor and a Harvard graduate, two people who hardly reflect conservative viewpoints nor contribute to right-wing websites.

In its ear­li­est it­er­ation, af­fir­ma­tive ac­tion in prac­tice meant out­reach to low-income blacks. It was ar­gued that the pol­icy was nec­es­sary to compen­sate for past in­justices and would one day no longer be nec­essary. Over time, however , quo­tas and set-asides re­placed sim­ple out­reach, and racial dou­ble-stan­dards in col­lege ad­mis­sions were de­fended on grounds that they en­hanced “di­ver­sity” on cam­pus.

The “progress toward equal­ity for black Amer­i­cans didn’t be­gin in 1965, by By many mea­sures, blacks were mov­ing to­ward par­ity with whites well be­fore the vic­to­ries of the Civil Rights rev­o­Luton , de­spite the lim­i­ta-tions im­posed by Jim Crow. More­over, af­ter the Civil Rights move­ment, that long-stand­ing trend to­ward racial equal­ity slowed, stopped, and even re­versed.

In the 1940s and ’50s, black-white gaps were not only shrinking in in­come, ed­u­cational at­tain­ment, home­own­er­ship rates and other mea­sures. The gaps were shrinking at un­prece­dented rates that have never been re­peated, even dur­ing the sub­se­quent era of af­fir­ma­tive ac­tion.

If any­thing, the ev­i­dence shows that racial pref­er­ences have co­in­cided with slower black up­ward mo­bil­ity. Af­ter the Uni­ver­sity of Cal­i­for­nia sys­tem ended its race-conscious ad­mis­sions poli­cies in the 1990s, black grad­u­a­tion rates rose.!!!!!!!!

A pol­icy in­tended to in­crease the size of the black mid­dle class was in prac­tice lim­iting its growth.

It would be dif­fi­cult to iden­tify a gov­ern­ment pro­gram com­ing out of the 1960s that did more to help blacks than what blacks were do­ing to help themselves be­fore the program.

The Upswing: How America Came Together a Century Ago and How We Can Do It Again
Book by Robert D. Putnam and Shaylyn Romney Garrett

[facilitatorn]

In the 1940s and ’50s, black-white gaps were not only shrinking in in­come, ed­u­cational at­tain­ment, home­own­er­ship rates and other mea­sures. The gaps were shrinking at un­prece­dented rates that have never been re­peated, even dur­ing the sub­se­quent era of af­fir­ma­tive ac­tion.

Oh my gum.

If any­thing, the ev­i­dence shows that racial pref­er­ences have co­in­cided with slower black up­ward mo­bil­ity. Af­ter the Uni­ver­sity of Cal­i­for­nia sys­tem ended its race-conscious ad­mis­sions poli­cies in the 1990s, black grad­u­a­tion rates rose.!!!!!!!!

What was the change in graduate count and enrollee count over that period?

A pol­icy in­tended to in­crease the size of the black mid­dle class was in prac­tice lim­iting its growth.

It would be dif­fi­cult to iden­tify a gov­ern­ment pro­gram com­ing out of the 1960s that did more to help blacks than what blacks were do­ing to help themselves be­fore the program.

I absolutely agree with the second proposition. Help comes to those who help themselves first and foremost.

What kind of dishonest disloyal dog would attribute to affirmative action policy the effect redlining, job discrimination policing and environmental double standards, early education segregation had in limiting Black middle class growth? I ask only out of polite curiosity.

[LarryBnDC]

Bets?

Affirmative Action as a policy will be given to a long awaited death penalty now that Barrett is on SCOTUS.
And the biggest beneficiaries will be blacks.

I won't bet against you on the first part, but evidence from California already suggests you are dead wrong on the second, so I'll put $10 on that.

My proposed standard of measurement
would be percentage of Blacks enrolled in top law schools 4 years after the change, assuming no change to reverse the decision by Congress/Biden before that.

Which proves nothing.
Of course college minority enrollments might tick up, that’s the easy part.
But if you are serious about effects of Affirmative Action I suggest you read The Upswing co-written by a Harvard political science professor and a Harvard graduate, two people who hardly reflect conservative viewpoints nor contribute to right-wing websites.

In its ear­li­est it­er­ation, af­fir­ma­tive ac­tion in prac­tice meant out­reach to low-income blacks. It was ar­gued that the pol­icy was nec­es­sary to compen­sate for past in­justices and would one day no longer be nec­essary. Over time, however , quo­tas and set-asides re­placed sim­ple out­reach, and racial dou­ble-stan­dards in col­lege ad­mis­sions were de­fended on grounds that they en­hanced “di­ver­sity” on cam­pus.

The “progress toward equal­ity for black Amer­i­cans didn’t be­gin in 1965, by By many mea­sures, blacks were mov­ing to­ward par­ity with whites well be­fore the vic­to­ries of the Civil Rights rev­o­Luton , de­spite the lim­i­ta-tions im­posed by Jim Crow. More­over, af­ter the Civil Rights move­ment, that long-stand­ing trend to­ward racial equal­ity slowed, stopped, and even re­versed.

In the 1940s and ’50s, black-white gaps were not only shrinking in in­come, ed­u­cational at­tain­ment, home­own­er­ship rates and other mea­sures. The gaps were shrinking at un­prece­dented rates that have never been re­peated, even dur­ing the sub­se­quent era of af­fir­ma­tive ac­tion.

If any­thing, the ev­i­dence shows that racial pref­er­ences have co­in­cided with slower black up­ward mo­bil­ity. Af­ter the Uni­ver­sity of Cal­i­for­nia sys­tem ended its race-conscious ad­mis­sions poli­cies in the 1990s, black grad­u­a­tion rates rose.!!!!!!!!

A pol­icy in­tended to in­crease the size of the black mid­dle class was in prac­tice lim­iting its growth.

It would be dif­fi­cult to iden­tify a gov­ern­ment pro­gram com­ing out of the 1960s that did more to help blacks than what blacks were do­ing to help themselves be­fore the program.

The Upswing: How America Came Together a Century Ago and How We Can Do It Again
Book by Robert D. Putnam and Shaylyn Romney Garrett

I questioned Ward Connerly at a book signing years ago when he was basking in the afterglow of his accomplishment with the Board of Tegents.

I asked him about his time working for the California Dept of Public Works (or some such) and how his buddy Pete Wilson helped him start his consulting business which made him wealthy,

He was proud of his accomplishments until I pointed out his business bid contracts through the MWBE system which is in fact Affirmative Action.

“Since you have profited mightily through Affirmative Action were you full of shit then, or are you full of shit now?”

The organizers asked me to leave.

People like Connerly and Clarence Thomas climb a ladder afforded them through AA and they feel shame or something for getting such an opportunity they pull the ladder up behind them.

There is no shame in getting a boost from AA for as we always say, “They’ May let you in but no one lets you out.”


226,000 people dead and REDSTATEWARD is chortling over white society re-cementing racism in the foundation of society.

[facilitatorn]

Red missed the ad

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2020/10/28/1990421/-Jeff-Flake-does-an-ad-for-the-Biden-campaign

Jeff Flake is one hell of a politician. There may be some future for him, warts and all. There are a lot of warts which may turn out to be a limiting factor.

[REDSTATEWARD]

People like Connerly and Clarence Thomas climb a ladder afforded them through AA and they feel shame or something for getting such an opportunity they pull the ladder up behind them.

There is no shame in getting a boost from AA for as we always say, “They’ May let you in but no one lets you out.”

It is obvious, if not to you, that using discrimination to cure discrimination is a path to failure.

[bambu.]

Think Amy is being tactful...neutral.

[facilitatorn]

People like Connerly and Clarence Thomas climb a ladder afforded them through AA and they feel shame or something for getting such an opportunity they pull the ladder up behind them.

There is no shame in getting a boost from AA for as we always say, “They’ May let you in but no one lets you out.”

It is obvious, if not to you, that using discrimination to cure discrimination is a path to failure.

Not nearly as obvious as it is that bringing toward proportion representation in positions of power and responsibility is an essential building block in addressing current and future discrimination in word and deed. That is what is really obvious. That is how you know how you are doing against discrimination regardless of the crosswinds.

Now that we’ve addressed conservative tendencies toward evil, let’s shift the focus to conservative hamhandedness,

http://americanindependent.com/donald-trump-mail-in-ballots-us-military-service-members-voting/

[facilitatorn]

Larry, the same applies to the problems Steven Miller is having with not being white.

[LarryBnDC]

Larry, the same applies to the problems Steven Miller is having with not being white.

And Jay Sekulow and Jared Kushner.

These motherfuckers see this pandemic as a final solution of sorts.

[josh]

Bets?

Affirmative Action as a policy will be given to a long awaited death penalty now that Barrett is on SCOTUS.
And the biggest beneficiaries will be blacks.

I won't bet against you on the first part, but evidence from California already suggests you are dead wrong on the second, so I'll put $10 on that.

My proposed standard of measurement
would be percentage of Blacks enrolled in top law schools 4 years after the change, assuming no change to reverse the decision by Congress/Biden before that.

Which proves nothing.
Of course college minority enrollments might tick up, that’s the easy part.

Long since read, along with numerous critiques and endorsements of it, Ward.

But since you don't like my standard, how to you propose to settle such a bet?!