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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[kiidcarter8]

OK, I'll play -

what were we eventually going to have to pay KP?

did we foresee KP's brother suddenly becoming a non-nuisance?

where were we getting young cheap talent that would allow us to pay top guys to play with KP?

Give me an example of a team - an eight player rotation - down the line if we had kept him - and tell me why you feel that would have been good enough.

[bodiddley]

Why would an aging rehabbing Durantula want to come to NYK anyway?

We don't have pieces in place, have a poor track record of executing plans, lots of turnover in terms of players and management, a two decades-long losing history, terrible owner, and a recent history of alienating high-profile players (Melo, KZ, Noah).

BKY makes a lot more sense, as they have a competitive young team already in place.  And they can add Kyrie, apparently a KD buddy.  Or he can stick with GS a perennial contender.

[kiidcarter8]

Brooklyn doesnt have all that much in place.

[bodiddley]

OK, I'll play -

what were we eventually going to have to pay KP?

A lot.  The junior max.

did we foresee KP's brother suddenly becoming a non-nuisance?

How did the relationship go wrong?  We couldn't give KZ's bro some title -- Player Development Specialist or whatever -- and buy him off.  And then KZ would hire a real agent. 

KZ was our ticket, all we had to do is keep him happy.  It was His Team.  The injury year allowed us to tank and add a Top 3 pick.  A This should have been fine.  How did the Knix blow the deal with KZ?  Why was he so disaffected?  How come no one has been held accountable or fired for this fiasco?

where were we getting young cheap talent that would allow us to pay top guys to play with KP?

RJ Barrett our #3 pick.  Knox, Mitch, Franc, Trier, Dotson, (Mud).
Gee that's nearly half a roster of young cheap talent.
Let's say that with KZ - Mitch - Barrett you have 3 starting positions locked up long term.  So bring in some vets.  Big need at PG.  Also SF.

Give me an example of a team - an eight player rotation - down the line if we had kept him - and tell me why you feel that would have been good enough.

Bring in a vet PG.  Maybe throw a ton of cash at RFA Brogdon (say $18M).  Pa Bev gives a jolt for cheap.  Rubio can be had for not a huge amount ($15M?).  With KZ, Kyrie likely considers NYC -- though I'm not a fan, as he would be expensive and injury-prone and flaky.  Another option is wait for a PG, but my feeling is  having a genuine starting quality PG will jump start the rebuild and speed up development of players/coach/team.

We'd need a 3&D vet SF.  One idea I've floated is tossing a big one year deal at an aging vet.  An Ariza, Rude Gay, DeMarre, Wil.
We'd get a solid SF presence, buy time to develop Knox, and preserve cap space for next year.  Maybe Ariza and Gay can find better teams willing to pay them fairly well.  Then DeMarre (though a big enough payday in NYC, and Ariza/Gay could agree).

Two possible next year scenarios:
A                                            B
Rubio -  Mud/Franc                  Brogdon - Mud/Franc
Barrett - Trier/Dotson              Barrett - Trier/Dotson
DeMarre - Knox                       Ariza - Knox
KZ -   Vonleh                           KZ - Vonleh
Mitch - Kornet                          Mitch - Kornet

I'd prefer B, but that would be harder to achieve.

We'd still have a fair amount of cap space the following year (though KZ will be at $25M or whatever).
Can evaluate and see what else we need and who works together.
Note I'm preaching a rather patient approach. 
Developing a team around KZ,  Barrett and Mitch.  Pups.  And hopefully Knox.  Which will take some years.  The hell with shortcuts.

Make smart moves.  Add another late lottery or mid-1st draft pick the next year.  Manage the cap well and be opportunistic.  Good players always become available.  For example, last year Porter Jr could be had for just his high salary.  Kyrie and Horford are out there in FA, etc.

[kiidcarter8]

Nets summer league news:

https://nothinbutnets.com/2019/06/22/brooklyn-nets-summer-league-schedule-set-team-coming-together/

[lesterluv]

What Bo Said....


*** at least 89 percent of it....

***** Ok if he never bounces back, or turns out to actually be a rapist or incorrigible Latvian brawler, or one of those picks gets lotto-lucky and turns in to the next Zion, things will look different in hindsight, but until then, a full 89 percent of what Bo said.

[bodiddley]

Les woulda been with me in the 90's if my original post weren't so garbled.  I've edited it so it reads better.

[Kam]

How did the relationship go wrong?   

KZ was our ticket, all we had to do is keep him happy.  It was His Team.  The injury year allowed us to tank and add a Top 3 pick.  A This should have been fine.  How did the Knix blow the deal with KZ?  Why was he so disaffected?  How come no one has been held accountable or fired for this fiasco?

When relationships go wrong there is blame on both sides.  You lay out where the Knicks done wrong.  But you give Zaps a pass.  I think Zaps pussied out.  Saw what the org has some to past greats (Ewing, Oakley, even Melo) and decided he didn't want the responsibility because failure meant ignominy.

[Kam]

Are Kam and I the only ones sane enough to throw everything at KD?

Fac - you with us?

OK .... let me clarify my position.

Do i think the Knicks will make a Max offer to KD? 

Yes.  Their shaky legs have come too far to not ring the doorbell on prom night. 
So what if the girl behind the door just got fitted for metal braces?   Have you SEEN her tits?

Do i think they should?

Yes.  Because I think the hottie with the braces will still be popular with her friends in a couple summers.


Am i considering my options? / OK with the messed up hottie turning me down?

Hell yes.   I hate braces.   I'll put up with them if i must.   But i'm not blind.   I go into this with a less than great feeling.  It's easier to feel better about dancing with some geeky girls for a couple years like Bo wants to and hope they stay loyal when they mature.

[elephant]

Same old, same old.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/new-york-knicks-fined-50000-for-violating-nbas-media-policy-when-they-banned-newspaper-from-press-conference/

The question about why we couldn't manage KP better remains relevant to issues/decisions coming up. How competent is the organization? Are things really changing?

[bodiddley]

Would big name FA's want to trust their careers to NYK?

And I really have no idea what went wrong between KZ and the Knix.
Assume we'll here more.

[facilitatorn]

The dude needed to get out of the jurisdiction. I’m sure he’ll be safe in Texas.

If we get outbid on D’Andre, how much do you think it would cost to sign Dedmon? I’d feel good getting him at 15 mil per. As a floor spacer he could play with Mitch or give us a 5 out look at the five more effectively than Kornet. He fits our timeline better than Brook Lopez who I wouldn’t say no to either. Muscala might be a cheaper less effective option in that mold.

Dedmon, JMychal Green, and Rubio then bring back Vonleh and Kornet.

Dedmon Mitch Kornet
Vonleh Green
Knox Frank Ignas
Barrett Dotson Trier
Rubio DJS Allen

As a team hoping to jump to where the Nyets or Magic were while having some space left and two first rounders in 2 of the next three drafts.

[bodiddley]

$15M sounds way high for Dedmon Walking.
Sounds like a Mahinmi signing to me.

There's a C glut and the market rate for C's has dipped significantly.

I'd rather go for someone much cheaper such as Zubac, Birch, Len.
Or look into Cauley-Stein's price.

Or just roll with Mitch and Chop Suey.

[NeedsAdjustments]

Are Kam and I the only ones sane enough to throw everything at KD?

Fac - you with us?

OK .... let me clarify my position.

Do i think the Knicks will make a Max offer to KD? 

Yes.  Their shaky legs have come too far to not ring the doorbell on prom night. 
So what if the girl behind the door just got fitted for metal braces?   Have you SEEN her tits?

Do i think they should?

Yes.  Because I think the hottie with the braces will still be popular with her friends in a couple summers.

In a couple summers that hottie will be pregnant and not putting out while you are stuck with $30 million per year in child support payments wishing you had just gone to college, where the girls are "geeky" but fun and chill and without a tenth of the baggage you have now stuck yourself with. 

Or at the least, wishing you had just stayed with that tall blond girl who took her Dallas boyfriend on a three week summer vacation in Santorini and whose bikini-clad beach selfies you can only now drool over on Facebook.  Really should unfriend her, dude.

[NeedsAdjustments]

How did the relationship go wrong?   

KZ was our ticket, all we had to do is keep him happy.  It was His Team.  The injury year allowed us to tank and add a Top 3 pick.  A This should have been fine.  How did the Knix blow the deal with KZ?  Why was he so disaffected?  How come no one has been held accountable or fired for this fiasco?

When relationships go wrong there is blame on both sides.  You lay out where the Knicks done wrong.  But you give Zaps a pass.  I think Zaps pussied out.  Saw what the org has some to past greats (Ewing, Oakley, even Melo) and decided he didn't want the responsibility because failure meant ignominy.

I said when this trade happened that I don’t know another team in the league that has ever traded a franchise all-star on his rookie contract for cap space.  To my knowledge, never happened.  And I can only imagine with the dozens and dozens of times when that has not happened that there have been plenty of asshole brothers and fathers and whomever and disgruntlement to go around that at least half-way competent franchises figured out how to deal with rather than rushing to a bad basketball decision.

The Knicks, alas, are not a half-way competent franchise.